Murray Go Kart Build
 

I wanted to do a 250cc Frankenbuggy, but I figured I should start small.
I picked up a Murray Go Kart with a 6 hp Briggs for $120.
Here are some pics of the project to be

Things I want to do:

- Put on a live single axle ( with Torque Converter )
- Single disk brake
- Build a roll cage
- Build or buy seat / seats

-Maybe put some kind of suspension on it. At least a-arms
- maybe put a rack and pinion


Anyways I am just looking to improve on my fabrication skills before I go to the high end stuff.
I will need suggestions, support, and help along the way.
Excited to start this project.

The live axle convert is fairly straight forward. Kart sites sometimes have a full kit with bearings and hubs. I would go no less than 3/4" shaft, 1" if you plan to add a swing arm or more engine.

TAV units are fairly cheap as well, beware the chinese knock offs though, as the service parts don't exist. TAV choice comes down to engine choice and output. If you retain the Briggs, then a TAV2 or 20 series should do well, even with some engine mods. This will be the biggest improvement overall.

You can get by without a full roll cage, but you need at least a main hoop a bit taller than your head, for obvious reasons. That and a good harness should take care of the safety side. The seat is purely your choice. Yerf seats are pretty plentiful, and easy to adapt, but not the most comfortable. I will be looking for a replacement for both buggies soon.

The rear suspension is pretty straight forward. The front can be really tricky to start from scratch.

Brakes are pretty simple to add on as well, and relatively cheap. I would look at a hydraulic set up, simple and really flexible with mounting and plumbing.

A co-worker asked if I want a large frame kart his neighbor wants to off load for $20. As much as I would like to get it, I don't have a clue what I would do with it, or where I would put it.

- I checked and the live axle set ups are cheap. They look fairly easy to install as long as my hangers are plumb and strong welds.

- TAV's are a little pricey but a must in the hills (paved hills) of West Virginia.

-The roll cage is a must as it will be a family cart and a viable fabrication experience.

Thanks for the info.

I have what I believe to be a complete live axle assembly 3/4 or 1"(new). It has the hangers and bearings, sprocket, brake disc and wheels and tires that are similar to yours, but larger. At one time I was going to build a little buggy from scratch, but as we all know, things change. I also have a complete blaster front end (minus shocks) and a complete go kart front suspension kit. I even have the front half of a blaster frame that could be grafted on or used for setup purposes. If you really want to go crazy and do an engine swap, I have 2-atc 110s and 1- atc 200. I have too many toys and the wife says it's time to start getting rid of some of it. Let me know if you are interested in any of it. I can throw up some pictures if you would like.

What length is the axle? For right now the axle assembly including sprocket and brake disk minus the wheels sounds good.
I will concentrate on the rear for now. what do you think $$ wise?

MMmmmm ATC's sound good, lol. I'd like to see that 200.

it does. LOl

I feel like I have already encountered a problem. I think it would be rather difficult to attach hangers to the round tubing ( running longways from front to back). I feel like it would be difficult to get them perfectly plumb.

I have decided that a swing arm will be my goal. for this rear end. My question is... Should I use this existing square tubing to attach my heims? ( I would move it up just behind the seat)

Or should I use a round tube? between the two tubes running long ways.
any suggestions on heims and mounting brackets?

maybe something like this ? http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/sh...ht=heims+swing

I would add a new rear cross tube to mount to if you go with a swingarm. When i used the stock 1" box tubing with a more rigid, less sloppy pivot setup, the swingarm twisted the tubing pretty easily. (1st or 2nd page of my yerf upgrade thread shows the setup i did with the stock tubing)

I'd go with 1.5 box or round.

don't know if you've got the means to do much traveling, but i have a complete GY6 swingarm setup. It's from the Sunl, actually a very nice strong piece with axle, sprocket and brake calipers.

Thanks for the info X. I will check out your set up. I also will let you know if swing arm will be a go or not..

Just putting this out there, but with these type of kits it appears there is no need to mount jack shaft plates. Looks as if the the rear plate contains bearings for Driven unit and sprocket.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GO-KART-TORQ...-/360713927423

Okay I just decided to nix swing arm. As I really want to keep it simple. I will still go with live axle and tav2.
http://buggymasters.com/forum/showth...rque+converter
Confirms I do not need jack shaft plate for install. As he kits already has it.

I would also keep things simple to start out. As for the mounting of the axle, you will probably want to sleeve the existing tubing with something thicker and stronger, as they were not really designed for live axle stresses. When you do this, you can use square tubing to make it easier to mount the bearings, or use round and use the weld on plates. I think you will find you may need/want to add some bracing back there and move the engine plate to a more centered location.

For today before I go to work.
-I removed front spindles. One which i had to cut off.
- I have a lot to clean up from a more amateur than me welder:bs2:
- Removed the rear dead axels ( Can't I just reinforce the existing square tubing pieces? and attach my axle hangers there?)
- removed engine mount plate
- last picture where I want to move engine mount plate

Can't I just leave some of the square tubing pieces and maybe slide a 3/4" axle between them? or is that stupid?

I would either cut the square 'axle' off and me it forward and reattach it to the main frame tubes, or add another brace between the frame tubes. This will help keep things inline, then add your axle brackets where it originally was. If you were to remove it completely, you would have little support to keep things square. Some braces and gussets properly placed and you should be golden. Once you get the axle in, then you can start eyeballing where to mount the brake caliper.

2slick,

I wouldn't worry about the square tubing. If you go with a live axle, I would be looking at mounting the hangers to the round tubing. Hopefully the round tubing has a thick enough wall thickness to support welding on the hangers. Then you could relocate the square tubing in between the round tubing to tie the parts together. Also, if you are worried about flex in the round tubing, you can weld a piece of angle iron (V Down) on top of the round tubing and this will strengthen it substantially.

I've also seen some karts like that reinforced with a piece of "C" channel!?

You can see in the 1st pic that there is already a little tab welded on.

I am going to weld about a 15'' piece of angle steel on the outside of the frame (pic is on inside). That way I have a flush surface to mount the hangers. And it gives me 3 areas to securely weld the hangers. And it is give added spport gfor cross bars for motor mounts.

Okay, I have the angled steel tacked on, but realizing I can really only get 4 solid welds on the angle and frame. I guess as long as I have good solid welds at the tops and sides of the angled steel where it meets the frame that should be plenty huh?
If you look at the 3rd picture you can see where I thought I was going to be able to weld the undersides of the angled to the frame, but.....Crappy be be's.
I guess just keep doing short bursts to fill in the large gaps.
Now I am just realizing that I should have drilled some holes in the angled steel and use those holes to tack it to the frame. Maybe I will see if I can drill through the angled without hitting the frame and do those welds too.

Well, according to most buggy manufacturers, that should be enough (as that's typically what they do...) but ya know. Better to add another! IMO, better safe than sorry. Especially when it comes to your frame

My thoughts too. Especially since those angled steel will be supporting the axle hangers, axle, and motor mount.

Okay, I got the angle steel secure. I Did about 5 one inch fills on each underside of the angle steel ( making 10 fills per angle steel) plus the 4 surface welds for each angle steel. It should be good to go.
Now to put the motor mount in.
Here is a professionally drafted blue print:bs2: of what I will be doing today and tomorrow. :D

http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/at...1&d=1396129008



I plan on putting the front to rear tubing stacked on the side to side tubing for additional clearance.
I think with the 15 inches between square tubing, the height of motor mount, and the depth of the hangers I should have plenty of clearance for sprocket, disk brake, and jack shaft.

2Slick.

I really hate to criticize anyone's work :(, but from the pictures, it doesn't look like you are getting good penetration into the round tubing. If that is the case, you might try and grind down the welds and give it another shot. If I am wrong I apologize profusely :hail:. By far I am not an expert welder, I just want to make sure that your project goes as planned for you.

As far as the axle, It has a little surface rust on it so I intend to clean it up and post a pic of it. Hopefully today, but the wife said that I had to clean the garage today. Gotta keep the wife happy to keep working on the toys. :evil:

Oh you were correct. It was not good penetration. I did grind those down and hit it again.
Great I look forward to that - thanks.
Keeping the wives happy is a full time job that eventually leads to our own happiness.

Happy wife, happy life. Old timer told me that a long time ago.

Flux welding thin tubing takes patience and skill not to burn through. If you get decent penetration, consider yourself a decent welder.

So true.....
I can weld the tubing fairly well. It is just Tryjng to get good penetration on the thick while trying not to burn through the thin stuff. I just try to pull the weld puddle down from the thicker material to the the thin.

here's a technique for that problem.
make a initial pass on the thin stuff to build up thickness. Lower your heat a touch and move just quick enough to not burn through.
then you can raise the heat to penetrate the thick and lay down another solid bead on top of the first. Your able to achieve bond without burning through the thin.
green is first pass, orange is the second.

That defenetly seems better than joining them in one pass. Thanks. I will try that later when I weld the 3/4" square to the angled steel.

What do you guys think about installing and welding my engine mounts in before axle is in?
I should have plenty of clearance for sprocket, i can always slide sprocket on axle to line up with jack shaft. The only problem I anticipate is not having a preset chain length, but hey I can always increase or decrease a chain length. The axle hangers will be mounted on outside of lower frame, so I should have wide open area when welding on hangers.

You can also use short pieces of all thread or solid rod cut to length you want to weld and placed in the gap. Be sure to tack both ends in place then weld away. A weld down both sides, then one or 2 down the middle to tie them both together. A lot easier than trying to fill a gap and stronger too. You can even use up old bolts this way, just cut the heads off. Or any scrap pieces of metal you may have lying around.

I personally like to add the axle first, then you can mock up the engine location based off of that. Depending on what CVT you use, the jackshaft may be directly behind the engine, of set to the side. If it ends up behind it, and the engine is too far over the axle, you will need to cut something out, or add another jackshaft.

Thats just me though.

That was my original thought. I am going to use the TAV that has the mounting plate on the engine. It has a built in jackshaft. saves me space and hassle.
Like this one. http://www.*************/Torque-Conve...nt_p_1029.html

Thats the one i had in mind when I stated about the chain location. That puts the location of the sprocket behind the engine, which is fine if you have adequate room, or the axle is moved further back, but if the axle ends up under the engine, then you have to do something else. I like the least amount of chain possible, that way you lose as little power as possible, but enough chain to prevent overheating.

The engine will be sitting over the live axle just as it did over the dead (stock) axle set up. Only it will be moved sideways to the center instead of one side.
There should be plenty of room. Reference my 1st post the 5th picture. And I am raising engine height approximately 2-3".
In my head it seems solid. As soon as I get the axle and hangers I will know for sure. I have a guy in the area who will sell me a TAV 2 for $70.

Keep in mind where the chain will be coming from with the TAV, it will be further back than with a clutch. Making that change alone would make me rethink about welding in anything more than the axle, until I have the unit in hand, ready for mock up. Your best bet is to make the engine plate shorter on the output side to allow the chain to run forward to the axle. It's your build, but I would rather see slower progress and do it only once, rather than shoot it, and then need to reshoot it.

Well Master.... I did weld those 15" 3/4 square tubing on the underside of the motor plate. But I love the advice of having the plate shorter on the TAV side :buttkick:.

Luckily the end of plate is 2" on one side and one inch on the other side. So... I will just turn it 180 degrees. Great!


I think I will order the hangers and axle tonight. That way I can start mock up and move on from the rear.

http://www.*************/1-Bearing-Ki...le-_p_487.html
And ordering a 1" 40" length axle.

I ordered my axle and bearing kits from there, the shipping can add up quickly. Funny enough, the pic showing the rivet removal could not be found anywhere, so a few of mine got filed down smooth when I installed mine.

That was the point of mentioning the chain alignment difference. I wanted to make sure you saw the way the TAV runs opposed to the clutch.

I ordered axle and hanger kit.
I just have to ask. What size axle did you order for the yerf?
The one on my Carbide has to be at least 2-3 inches.

Never mind just saw they sell the bigger axles. :lol:

I ordered a 1"x45" standard axle for the yerf.

Oh wow. I thought they were larger than that. Since I ordered 1" x 40" and I don't have any shocks; it should be pretty durable for riding on road.

Will this be an on road only kart? The live axle will cause tire scrub on pavement, the stub axle is actually preferred for on pavement use as it allows tight turning radius. I would be hesitant to use a standard steel axle for a hard ram kart. A 1.25" or flexproof axle might do better. I know the kart racers use hollow chromo axle that have some flex without bending. Probly not cost effective in this use. Think about adding a center support bearing to keep the flex to a minimum.

Yes. I wanted a torque converter to power me up and down the hills at around the house, so that is why I cut off existing stub (dead) axle. Seeing as this is going to be a rigid kart, I could not imagine being off road with it. I already ordered the axle. Hopefully all works out. Maybe I can add a center support once I get axle mounted with the two hangers. I pla on keeping this I am investing money in a learning project. Who knows maybe one day this thing will get a suspension.

Well hangers are mounted. Tomorrow I will clean up the welds, because right now they are strong and ugly.

Love the progress! What do you plan on mounting there? The stock "industrial" engine or something better? :evil:

Thanks. Just putting the 6hp Briggs back in there. I just wanted a project to gain some fabrication experience. Also a go kart that I can ride around the neighborhood on without being to obnoxious. So if the wife sends me to the neighbors for sugar. I will hop on this instead of my daughters mini bike.

Now there's a "picture"!!! lol

I love her mini bike. I plan on getting one too. I had atc's,atv's, and dirt bikes. But when I discovered go karts, mini bikes, and buggies. Talk about grown man fun.

Memories!
 

Yea, my first bike was a Honda trail 50 back in 69, I thought I was king of the world! and as a bonus the boys on the farm next to us got a go kart the same year! I still smile when I think about it. I LOVE THOSE NEW POCKET BIKES TOO, SADLY AT 6'4" 275# I'd look like a circus act trying to ride one now! :rofl:

I know how you feel, I look like a gorilla on a tricycle riding a sport bike, let alone one of those pocket bikes. And yes, I have ridden one of those 50cc pocket bikes, I'm pretty sure I still have the video somewhere. Sadly, the same goes for my RM80. :biglaugh:

I think that is half the fun! ( pun intended)

And all the humor!!!

Some years back I was talking with a colleague about welding and he told me that there was two different categories of welders. One was an Ag (farmer) and the other was a professional welder. He then told me that the main difference was the Ag welder needed to have their welds strong and be able to get their equipment back out in the fields quickly. However, the professional welder not only had strong welds, but the beads are so pretty that you don't bother to grind on them to clean them up.

So I fall into the Ag category, since most of my welding is outside, I use either flux core or a stick, and I really don't care what the weld looks like (at least to a point :) ), I just want then to be strong.

I also fall into the Ag category, but I am slowly starting to move toward the pro section. There are some welds where I immediately grab the grinder and start over, then there are the ones that make me stand back, and say "wow", I am not completely incompetent.

guess I would fall into the pro cat. then. what type of welder are you using nick. stick or mig?

I am okay with being an Ag farmer welder.
I have a job smart flux core mig from TSC.
I hope to one day acquire a better welder, but for now. To keep improving.

As an old farm boy, I live by the "Ag"!!! lol

it looks like it would hold great nick. if you want it pretty looks like you need to slow down a little and remember weave the weld left and right. for instance start as far left as you are going to go, then as you are welding pull it to the right as far as you are going to go. back and forth that way. you want to overlap the last weld by about half of what is already there. in other words your new weld should cover about half of your last weld. hope this helps you.

I have heard weave, sew, circle, and figure eights. I used to lay down figure eights when I worked in an exhaust shop, now, 10 years later, my technique changes from weave to circles depending on the material.

As an "agger" I was always shown weave, or sew.

Well I ground down and smoothed out some of the hanger welds and laid down some real nice looking and strong welds using the circle pattern. I was on fire with these welds and.....then ran out of wire , Boo.....

Well of course, you had just got into a good groove!

I always try to have an extra spool of wire on hand. Murphy's law dictates that you will always run out of wire (or gas) with just one more weld to go. :evil:

LOL. I should have known better. Hey TooMany, did you get any of my in boxes? Or is your inbox filled?

With the advice of my buggy peers, I have gone forth with the mock up of my middle support axle hanger. I am reusing the old(red), stock, and dead axle. AND....Reusing some great "pre-made" axle hangers. Really they are the two front wheels from a shopping cart. I am now going to join two threads............http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/sh...hp?t=4861-----))) POOF!!! I am happy with the way this looks. As sooon as I get more wire these will be welded on.:biglaugh:

I think I will use the bottom of the shopping cart ( *where you put the heavy stuff*) - as the back seat and seat rest.

Now thats what I call "redneck engineering!" Good job! :p

the ultimate in resourseful recycling!

exactly! I'm no longer saying redneck engineering but resourceful recycling!

I can see it now, everywhere we go to shop all the shopping carts will be sitting in the parking lot with the front of them up on cement blocks, because someone stole the swivel wheels off to go on thier buggy thanks to slick nick LOL

but hey it looks like a great idea.

there actually a shopping cart bone yard here at our local recycling center!!!

2nd mock up of middle axle hanger. Decided to cut one wheel bracket from a shopping cart in to 2 axle hangers. attach hangers on to motor plate.
Mock up of seat and rear roll cage.

Thanks fellas. Metal is metal and it all welds together.coming along fine.

Pic 1 and pic 2 are the center axle hanger and bearing welded in place.

Pic 3 and 4 are mock up of seat and lateral guards (made from shopping cart )
Pic 5 is it all welded together.

Lookin' good! I love the use of the shopping cart as a seat and the side of the seat! Just attention to detail. :p

Thanks Dude... I feel so damn proud of my problem solving skills and build creativity. A freakin shopping cart..."I am Man and I can weld" - I yell. :laugh2:I still have plenty of pieces of shopping cart left, plus another cart if I need :D
Th is project is coming along nicely.

I have been feeling pretty comfortable about my fabrication skills. I am going to give the Kart a look-see and see about cutting the rear end off and making a swing arm with 3/8 heims today.

Good idea, if its strong enough, use it up!!!

The steel is of very low grade, but is strong enough for this application.
Thanks.

After giving if some thought and walk around. I could make this an easy swing arm fab.
But I will stick with the rigid frame for now....

The merge of Kart & Cart
 

I used the last bit of tubing (which was the push handle of shopping cart) for more cage tubing and bracing.

Full kart consumption, awesome!!! lol

That is he most recycling West Virginia has ever seen. I still can't believ som states don't mandat recycling:bs2::stupid:

Update:
I have been busy with work and now have to work only 1 out of 7 days this week:hail:
Waiting on the bearings for the middle axle hanger and a hub to to mount the axle sprocket on.
I still don't have TAV unit yet, but will use stock clutch, chain, and sprocket
to square things up and weld motor plate/mount in.
I am also currently doing mock ups of roll cage, seat, and searching for wheels.

Scored a torque converter with 7" driven. YEah yeah!! It was 2 miles away from my house, posted on CL for less than 2 hours, and only $60.

I do need the brass bushing though he lost that.
I need to decided which to do...
get the plate and jack shaft like .....http://www.*************/Clutch-Mount...t-_p_1129.html



or just get the weld set up like http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Go-cart-...28feb4&vxp=mtr

Never I have to get either this one....http://www.*************/Clutch-Mount...t-_p_1129.html

Or
http://www.*************/Torque-Converters_c_215.html


That way I can still adjust the chain tension.

I have not had too much progress, but have made some.....
This is where I am now.

http://youtu.be/8oDEL7MEV4M


I am currently ( slowly ) making a seat, and trying to find wheels and brakes. I might just use the original band brake for now. Then I will grind down, strengthen some welds, and paint this puppy.

Looking good, can't wait to see the finished product.

Thanks.

Well I decided to start chopping up shopping cart #2 for round tube for the framing process. I have been busy, but did add 2 more pieces to the cage and welded up an adjustable seat frame which will use 2 knobs to slide back and forth.
http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/at...1&d=1399482987

I like the idea of an adjustable seat ,mine will be stationary.

A must for the kids.

Is it just pegs that go through the frame that hold the seat in various positions? Or is it a slider?

It will be a bolt with a knob.

Simple is super when it comes to these things!

Yes Bear you are RIGHT... I have to tell myself that everyday.Because I keep finding myself wanting to do MUCH MORE to this simple yard kart. :ack:
Once it is finished I will either do another, do mini bike or chopper.
Then work my way to doing a full suspension FRANKENBUGGY.:evil:

Yes,yes let the "madness" stew!!! boohaha!

You know your hooked when you start throwing out other project ideas lol. After I'm done with my buggy I'm gonna build a trike. I got an old small chopper mini bike frame, a old 90 cc dirt bike roller, Quad rear end. And a 6.5 hp predator motor.Should be able to put a cool trike together.