GY6 150 Swap to CF250 what is involved
 

So after back and forth consideration of ramping up my gy6 150 to big bore stroker, it seems that after all that work and cost, I am right where the cf250 begins.

If I purchased a cf250 without carb, cdi, coil, anyone know what will be involved to swap the gy6 150 to the 250?

I thought the cf250 had hi and low but appears not the case that it is f/n/r. Any idea on this?

:evil:
ive actually done it a few times in a swingarm 150. the 1st time in a yerf, the second in a crossfire and the last one, recently in a yerf which is in a thread here. the 1st two are on the other forum site and if you do a search on "baby huey" should come up for the 1st yerf build. i only bring that up because the swingarm was used from that build on this most recent one on the thread here, so any details on the swingarm fab arent in there. search "crossfire 250r" on the other site for the crossfire.
basically the 2 250 versions that we see in our buggies are usually both made (the chinese versions) by the company CF MOTO, so either or might be considered CF250s. commonly what i have found is that on the buggy forums the one that requires an external gear box of some sort is referred to as a CN250 and the one w/ built in reverse and the hi/lo is referred to as a CF250. but like i said they are both built by CF MOTO. i think the hi/lo motor is referred to as the CF is because it usually has the name of the company somewhere on the motor where the other version usually doesnt. where the "CN" comes from is on the motor w/out the internal rev/hi/lo is a carbon copy of the Honda CN250 Helix scooter motor. so basically these have been the adopted names to differentiate the 2 250s.
as far as mods to the buggy the biggest thing will be the swingarm. obviously, you'll have to fab a new mount for the front of the motor and rear of the motor . the rear mount will be to have a chain adjustment which can be similar to a 150. mounting the back of the 250 is critical. i have broken the case of the motor having the rear mount to far back behind the motor which wasnt really a whole lot. you also have to take into consideration that the carb is front mounted so when redesigning the swingarm leave some space for the protruding air filter.
mounting a radiator will also come into play.
then last is wiring. if you are experienced and have done a 150 befroe there are some differences. you will need the proper rectifier and cdi which are specific, where as the solenoid and coil can be pretty much universal so the existing 150 stuff would work.
that will get you swapped. then you will probably want to do some suspension work to compensate for the added speed.
o also have facebook photo albums which catalog every build i have done so if that helps feel free to look or send a friend request.
good luck, hope that sums it up.

https://www.facebook.com/jerseydevil.minibuggypage

Jersey,

Thanks. I have found only two 250cc currently still out, hammerhead cfmoto with high,low, but super expensive. The other c.f. 250 f/n/r. Which is around 500 to 750 dollars. If you know of a hi/Low let me know.

Was putting in a 250 significant difference in speed and power?

Would you suggest it over a beefed up stroked big bore gy6 150?

The CF250 with hi low uses CV axle shafts which will require rear a-arms as compared to the CN250 which uses a swing arm as you currently have. To convert to the CF250 you would have incorporate the rear swing arm to the main chassis, make rear a-arms to mount to the now rigid frame as well as the correct knuckles and hubs to fit and support the new CV axles as well as redesign your shock mounts.

:evil:
Not necessarily, the hi lo motor is chain drive so it could be mounted in a swingarm and run a solid axle.

The one's I have seen are chain driven and only are f/n/r unless you want to pay $1600 for the hammerhead one that they really don't make parts for anymore. The hammerhead is a cfmoto.

Jersey,

At that crossroad of either going b case (internal reverse) for that bored out stroked gy6 150 up to 232, modifying my gy6 150 to 62mm bore and 3mm stroke or just modding to the mentioned cf250 chain drive.

Was putting in a 250 significant difference in speed and power?

Would you suggest it over a beefed up stroked big bore gy6 150?

Me bad, you are correct.

My personal experience is the GY6 has a wide range of options for building. The 250 has no performance engine mods available to speak of. The big bore kits once available are no longer available. No stroked cranks available unless you send the crank out to be stroked which is very expensive. The 150 is rated at 12-14 HP but only comes to 5-7 at the rear wheels. The 250 if I remember is 16HP so you can figure at the rear wheels it will be appx. 8-10 HP. With all the parts out there for the GY6 you can tripple the wheel HP but you are going to spend some $'s for the proper parts.

:evil:
tend to agree with tom there, a 250 in a lighter 150cc chassis is a cool prospect but time and $ are spent on fab and motor. the out come will be better than a stock 150 and average speed could range from 45-50mph depending on weight and gearing. but! other than carb , exhaust, clutching, electronics and sprocket gearing.....it is what it is. quite frankly if different gear sets for the final drive tranny were available like the gy6 engines, that alone would be a huge upgrade cuz the stock ratio sucks.
like tom stated no crank, head or cams and if you do get lucky you might find the discontinued BBK. and i have one installed on the CROSSHAMMER build and couldnt tell you it was worth the $.
my 155cc yerf has beaten to stock 250s in a drag race and out climbed a bunch of buggies with over twice the displacement, granted that one smoked a belt and another broke the bead on a tire but still the lil 155 pulled it upa hill it shouldn't have.
there have been plenty of times where a well tuned hot rodded gy6 has out classed a 250.
so it comes down to sink the $ into the gy6 or sink the $ in a 250, a rad, a carb, electronics, material and a good chunk of time.

I have both a 250cc in a single seat buggy and a 150 in a single seat buggy. The 250 weighs about 100 more pounds than the 150. The 250 has a big bore, ported head and high lift cam. It will top out at 36 mph in 300ft and 44 mph over a longer run.. My 150 which I have a 6mm stroke, 63mm bore and a custom cam with 34mm Mikuni carb will do 49mph in 300ft and top out at 50+ over a long haul. However I do have the 3:08 final drive gearing, not sure what the CN 250 has for gearing. Never bothered to check since there is no other gearing available that I have found for the 250. The 150 at 50+ mph is running at 9300 rpm. If I were to put a 274 final drive gear in it my top speed would substantially increase due to the rpm's being lower. I just think for the money spent on a 250 than to fabricate it in chassis than mod, the 150 can be done for slightly more money less labor and the results being much greater.

If I can pull equal to more power out of a gy6 150 A block with 62mm bore and up to a 3mm stroker or perhaps a gy6 b bored and stroked which can be done up to 232 than I would certainly go this route. Using Taida parts.

However, if the money being spent is not going to perform against a modded 250 that has water cooling, it seems it would be good money being thrown at a lost cause with the 150 gy6, especially still being air cooled.

I do understand that bigger is not always better. I have a 327 engine and it can keep right up with a 396 or 454 chevy.

Another thing I am wondering is that a cf250 has a huge variator ramp and clutch ramp vs the gy6 115mm ramp. This alone seems that you would not be as limited on speed and would be able to go much faster top speed. Is this correct?

I have found performance being made for the cf250:
http://www.scrappydogscooters.com/25...rformance.html

Big Bore:
https://chinesescooterparts.com/prod...-cylinder-kit/

:evil:

haahaha, yeah thats the kit i have, i guess they are still available. i just figured i really hadnt looked in a long while so tome was a little more up on it. the 250in my opin lacks bottom end grunt so the camshaft in the link wont help its weak spot, thats why other gear set options would be lovely if they existed.

so for all around performance, hill climbing and speed, it sounds like you feel the gy6 150 can out perform the 250 especially in hill climbing. It is that top end variator that I think is the advantage of the 250.

However, I wonder if this is the best of all worlds, the 200cc gy6 B short case with built in transmission. As mentioned it can be bored and stroked to 232 and can use Taida parts. It has a built in oil cooler as well. If I remember right it has like a 123mm variator ramp.
http://www.scrappydogscooters.com/gy...Y6-B_case.html

Sycarms,

I really respect your experience level in this as well. You are a wealth of information. There really is very little knowledge base on these buggies other than common performance upgrades.

My desire is to be part of contribution to more information for all of us buggy fans.

What do you think of the gy6 150 B engine I mentioned above?

Fan4Chevy where are you located? I have a fresh rebuilt CFmoto 250 i might be willing to part with. Its currently in my Crossfire 150r and im going to be swapping it out for a 400cc twin. All gears work. I think its going to need a starter clutch sooner than later.

BEEFKING69,

I am in Idaho. Is your 400 going to have reverse?

The 400 is a 78 Hawk hondamatic 2 speed auto. Im planning on using a polaris F/N/R transmission. I cant stand driving a buggy with no reverse.

Is that in 1978?

These buggies are super awesome, they just are shy on power and suspension travel.

Where do you get the Polaris f/n/r?

Yes 1978 honda hawk CB400A. The trans is out of a trail blazer 250. Ive got a buil thread on here and the other forums.

I will look for it.

Well bounced away after all the helpful thoughts from going to the 250.

What you mean?

Also wanted to mention that i believe the CF250 would be easier to use since it has lower mounts unlike the CN250 which hangs in the back like the 150s.....So with the CF you could build a flat mounting plate on the swingarm.

What kinda buggy would you be doing the swap in if you was to do it?

I'm not a fan of that engine since you will have only 1 source for the parts, it is not a factory supplied engine. The basic GY6 is used in scooters yet today so parts will be more plentiful.

Sycarms,

Thanks. These buggies have so much potential with the power being the main limiter. They are just so under powered, which keeps me looking at every option.

I had even looked into the Honda Silver Wing 600cc engines, no reverse of coarse, but nearly 50hp and some have a gy6 horizontal cylinder shape.

To do a big bore 62mm and a 2 or 3mm stroke is not a small investment and so the question still remains. Will I be happy with the power gain and top speed potential especially with all the below things I already did with minimal gain.

I have currently 12g sliders, Koso 115mm variator, Ncy green clutch with 1500 springs (tried 2000 took out), Hi Po clutch bell, Irridium plug, orange coil, performance cdi, new straight through muffler, jetted to around 125, redneck and uni filter and just put in the a12 cam and adjusted rockers. Still lacks power. It is not impressive start and tops out about 25 mph.

These buggies are under powered for sure. One thing to keep in mind is too large of a motor the frame may not handle the torque and with the suspension would make it quite hard to control. If you can give me a call 662-301-1563 and I can explain in greater detail what would be your best options to where you will be satisfied with the results or if better for you e-mail <tom@sycpowersports.com> me your # with a good time to call and I'll call you.

After about 2 years of owning my 3 gy6 150 buggies, doing tons of nearly daily research, added performance parts just shy of big boring and stroking, that none of these engines will give me the power I would want.

I need buggies that can keep up with rzr and quads and hit the hills with two people in the buggy.

I have concluded that yes I can boost up power, but the gy6 or 250 expense compared to dropping in an existing bigger engine from 400cc to 600cc will have no comparison. Especially when considering these other engines start at 30 plus horse power.

I know they will be a much bigger engine needing frame mods, better shocks, etc. but I think I am up for the challenge.

The biggest challenge will be to see if I can still have reverse or be able to modify the gy6 gearbox. However, when it comes down to it, power outways the need for reverse.

I will be documenting my build either way I go.

Several things to consider, weight to HP ratio. I knew a fellow rider who put a 500cc engine in his 2 seat Blade buggy years ago. First, he had plenty power to climb anything except he could never get good traction. On a strait away he would blow the doors off us 150 and 250 riders but get him on trails and we would pass him plus he was always welding his frame. If you have the engineering skills you can solve the latter but you will still have the traction problem for the buggy is just too light for the HP it puts out. About 5 years ago at the annual bash one guy showed up with a Carter buggy that had a Honda TRX 250 swap. That buggy was awesome. As long as you have the tools and know how, but if you have to pay to get some of it done it could cost you more in the end and not be satisfied.

:evil:
just a few things to remember when doing an engine swap.
1. come up with a plan, think it through and commit.
2. whatever budget you project to your project, anticipate adding another 30-50% . the reason i say this is sometimes you end up buying something that is part of the plan and ends up not working, sometimes the plan just has to change. this is all going to happen and should be expected..... but a lot of that depends on the extent of the project.
3. if the plan you had isn't working out, it is ok to scrap it and think of another way to pull it off. better off to re think a portion that has eaten up time and resources than to beat the dead horse and do it wrong.

when i built Lucifer i spent money on 3 racks because the 1st one wasnt what i thought it was only to buy 2 more different one only to go back to using rack #1.
if you go atv motor expect that whatever donor motor you use will be in need of a rebuild. no point in stuffing some piece of craigslist crap in your awesome new build only to have to pull it out to rebuild it again.
good luck and i look forward to seeing your thread.

I'll step in an say years ago tire selection was limited. Today I can get a set of atv tires that will twist any axle you set in front of me. I'm a mudder and farmer so I grew up with deep lug tires.


Today its easy to get traction. The problem still the frame holding up. Frankly if you the type of yahoo that is grafting in an engine you have a welder and know you gonna chase up welding weaker links.

Then again I'm the yahoo that grew up throwing v8s in vegas, monzas,luvs, and s10s. Had a stick welder in my hand when I was 6.


<edit>
I'll add to what was said above. If you don't have a full shop with stuff like a bender, notcher, mill, or lathe add 150% of what you planned unless you have good good buddies with said equipment.

Thanks Tom, Jersey and Neo.

It has been a real learning curve. I have just been disappointed with the lack of power after putting the aftermarket exhaust, a12 cam, jetting, redneck Uni intake, Performance NCY clutch, Beljing bell, 12g sliders and 115mm variator.

It all makes me feel that if I pump cash to do the 62mm big bore, 2-3mm stroker and head job that I will increase power but still be lacking trying to keep up with a quad or rzr.

So I have thought, if I can throw in a maxi scooter 500cc engine with 39 horse power that brings a 475 pound scooter to 105+mph, that I could get a top speed of atleast 65mph, gear down and get some bottom as well.

I also thought that even though I have more HP that the engine weight will be more and I am adding quite a bit of plastic and metal to the body. I usually ride two so thought the weight would be there for traction.

The other thing I did like about an engine swap is the electronic fuel injection stock, bigger variator for top speed, water cooling and larger stator to run more lights, etc.

Regarding my shop, I have a welder, grinders and an iron bender, not tubing bender.

I just want the power to get up hills, keep up with the other guys and have a good time while also driving it on the street as I have it street legal. I also keep hearing how modding the gy6 by stroker, big bore, etc. loses reliability and can over heat easier.

STREET LEGAL !!! ??? WHERE YOU AT ?
I WANT TO LIVE THERE ! :rofl:

Oldkid,

I live in Coeur d Alene Idaho. I am insured and have limited use plate which means that I can drive it anywhere except on a highway. Can go to the market if we want.

I can also cross a hwy in a 45mph zone.

Just saw that Harbor Freight has notchers now
https://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-t...her-42324.html

They have had em for awhile. They take a bit of work to "tune them" to get them too work right but they do work pretty good for a home DIY guy.

There are a few you tube videos about setting it up, putting a good bushing in it. My suggestion is to skip the cheap hole saw and get a good annular cutter for the size(s) you use the most often. They are costly but leaves a better cut and far outlives bi metal hole saws.

I would suggest getting a good notcher, the Eastwood company has a good notcher. As neo71665 stated get a good hole saw.

thanks guys, will check them out.

Do you have suggestion of a descent but cheap priced tube bender?

Harbor freight has a good one as long as you don't need tight bends. A mandrel bender will cost you 2K or better and the dies are not cheap.

From what I saw on youtube, the harborfreight bender is more for pipe and kinks tubing badly. Any input on this?

Weather the Harbor Freight or a top of the line bender there all the same. I can bend any type of pipe or tubing but the radius is large on tubing. For tighter bends you need a mandrel bender. Same principal as an exhaust bender you see at the muffler shops but they will bend smaller diameter tubing and operate either electric, hydraulic or Pneumatic. I want to say JD had posted a link some time back for a company who produced an affordable one and if I remember correctly the total manual system was around 1700.00 up to around 3400.00 for the Cadillac model.

Stay away from the harbor freight pipe kinker. Pro tool or jd2 for a pipe bender. I use a homemade knock off of the jd2 I built years ago. You look around you can find the plans pretty easily. If you can get the metal cheap or free it's not really hard to build. If you buy new metal it's not really worth building it vs buying. I hear guys claiming they can find them cheap on craigslist but in my area there are 2 mud tracks and a dirt track so if they do pop up they are gone in minutes or priced just as much as a new one.


I don't have good opinions on any of eastwoods stuff. At least with harbor freight you know you are buying chinese knock offs and they price it cheaper. Eastwood has knock offs and it isn't much cheaper than the real stuff. Personally I've built 2 roll cages with my HF notcher and can't say much bad about it besides the required tuning to get it set up right. It really doesn't take 30 minutes (hour if you stop to drink a few here and there) and it's done. It's never gonna be a pro grade tool but for the diy guy that might use it once or 2 times a year it's hard to beat.

Hey
Tom is right I've been searching hundreds of videos with HF pipe bender and almost every time it kinks or gets an oval shape.This kills me because I will never be able to afford the right bender.This is the only video i found that was close. it still has an over shape but I would love to see if it would work from someone else who already owns a pipe bender before I drop $100 .(warning video has some bad language )

https://youtu.be/kLSQrT1Ec70

Tim

And if I ever win the lottery i will go shopping for one of these ��

https://youtu.be/4z2NFwftLKw

I agree the hf model will kink. I will look around.

I will have to try the first video and use a smaller inner die.

:evil:
i use JD2 bender and notcher. had an HF bender and gave it away, had an HF notcher and it was junk out of the box.

Do you use it on your exhaust, how tight of a 90 will it bend

:evil:
yea tom, it's a 4.5" radius, the smallest they have is 3.5 which is on my christmas list this year from me to me. i originally got it with cages in mind but i do bend out a lot of exhausts.

A Chopsaw makes a good notcher

A southbend is on my list. Ever get my hands on one I'll make my own dies.

Decided to ditch the whole gy6 and 250 deal and attempt a larger cc engine build. Should have the engine next week.

Engine puts out stock 39hp. The next step will be finding a cog that will work and see if I can use existing external reverse.

You have more than 1?....I want one. If you will count the splines on the output shaft ill see what i can do about finding sprockets.

Beefking69,

I have 2 gy6 buggies, hense 2 engines. :)

I appreciate your assistance. When they arrive I will check the splines. It is going to be some work, I am sure.

I think one of the hardest parts will be wiring.

I totally thought you meant you had gotten 2 of the 500s lol. Are you getting the wiring harness and computer with it?

Actually, let me back up. I got 3 engines for our 3 buggies. One buggy is like the larger Roketa and the other two are more similar to the Hammerhead and the Trailmaster 150.

So three 500cc engines with gas tank, fuel pump, efi throttle body water pumps, radiator fans, the brain, cdi box.

Now I will need to find wiring harness, header, cog, radiator.

Well then.....Can you get a 4th? What did you have to give for them? Twin or single cylinder? 3 swaps is gonna keep you busy lol but should defiantly be worth it.

It is single cylinders. A guy had it for some larger buggy but ended up scrapping the idea. So I am going to give it a try. Not sure yet what all is going to be involved and may be possible that I am in over my head compared to another engine choice.

I had considered snowmobile engines and atv engines. Just found no way that a gy6 can accomplish my desired riding.

Id love to have one if not all three. I have a buddy that would love to have one for his crossfire....His is the one in my build thread that we swaped the carter gtr 250 on. I have a 300ex motor and i know where a ninja 250 motor is. Both are complete with wiring and everything. The roketa will be the easiest to swap as it has alot more room.

I think I would have loved to do the ninja or the cb engine over what I got. May still change to something else. Those are much more powerful and smaller than what I have. Was having hard time though locating one. Not sure what best engine choice really is but I think gy6 is not good for power overall. Also parts are way way more available for other engine choices. Craigslist is the best place to find stuff.

I like the Roketa I have. However, I have to say the smaller framed two that I have in Silver feel more safe and maneuverable. Overall one buggy running was $160, another $350 and another $500. Unfortunately all straight axles. Good thing not too expensive now that I am wanting to do engine swapping.

Let me make sure i can still get my hands on the ninja 250 and maybe we can work something out. I missed out on a complete running but wrecked ninja 250 for 50 bucks last month :( Gy6 is awesome and will do some amazing things but in the end they can only do so much. Ive had 2 of the huge roketa clones and they ride good but are freaking huge and underpowered and they dont fit anywhere i ride other than the offroad park and i cant fit them in the back of my truck....I can fit all 150s and 250s in the back of my truck....even the carter gtr's. Edit just realized your roketa is a 150 and not the big 250/300

You like the crossfires best? If so why is that?

Them ninjas are so darn powerful. You can take a 250 ninja and spank the daylights out of other larger type of engine. Plus they sound so amazing.

Crossfires are defiantly my favorite. Mainly because they actually look like a mini sandrail instead of a gokart on steroids. They also ride better to me and they have better front suspension and dont have struts like all others. Hammerheads and other similar buggys do have alot better turning radius tho.

On the trails, my two smaller buggies can't be beat other than power limit. They handle around corners and tight trails incredibly. Atv's no match other than again power. They get us on the straights but corners, by by.

I dont even care for 4whellers anymore since ive been riding buggies so long altho i do want a 4x4 for recovery purposes. Our offroad park has 2 lap bracket races and usually the buggies beat out the 4wheelers and the sxs's

I am totally into buggies as well. Much rather drive than sit on top of something throwing me around. I also think if you build these buggies right, you can out perform a rzr or the likes in 80% of the terrain.

You can whip these buggies around and the rzrs tip and have to slow down to keep from tipping.

Our problem is about suspension and power weakness. However, spend a fraction for mods and upgrades of an atv or rzr and I think we all will have awesome machines.

Here are the a arms I mentioned

Im going to put mine up against a buddys rzr800 to what happens. Those look nice and are pretty cheap.

If you are in a drag race it may be a harder event to win. You are a couple hundred pounds lighter though. However, in a trail, there will be no chance a rzr will compete.

You get the 500s yet?

Check this out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_62fcas6rk

I have seen this ninja 250 video before and it is so fast and sounds awesome. I have seen others as well with 250 ninja. They put out so much power compared to putting in a larger cc engine of another type.

I think it is the best way to go as long as shifting is not an issue.

I cant tell if hes got a hand clutch on the shifter or if hes got a clutch pedal rigged up

I have seen a few different ones like this. They are putting the clutch lever on the shifter making it almost like a semi auto.

Thats what i was thinking but i just couldnt see the lever.

The sound of these engines compared to scooter engines is amazing!

After watching the video several times, his left foot is stationary while shifting so he does not have a foot pedal for clutch. Looking closely at the shifter I can see no levers or buttons, just a shifter with skeleton head knob. It appears that he bumps the shifter each time he shifts. It seems to me he would have changed to a clutch which allows him to shift without a clutch cable or linkage. What comes to mind is the Honda CT type 50-110 cc engines which originally were manual clutch engines used in dirt bikes and mini bikes made in 70's to 90's. I have both a manual and shuttle shift 90 cc engines where both trans gearing are identical except for the type of clutch used. The buggies you would just let off the gas and push the shift lever forward and it returns to original position for the next shift. Besides no reverse the only other negative thing I see is it is 71" almost 6' wide. Won't be many trails to take it on that I know of. I have a 650 Joyner which is 64" wide just like the RZ's and like and some trails I have to skip for being to narrow. We rode with a guy who had a Joyner 1100 which is 70" wide and he couldn't get down 50% of the trails we rode in Kentucky and Missouri

Sycarms,

Does your Joyner put out a tremendous amount of power and speed. That is a pretty big engine even though I am sure it is heavy.

It tops out @55 mph. The main problem is the trans ratio when climbing a steep hill. You peak out in 1st gear and shift to 2nd the rpm's drop so much you can never wind out second before engine stalls. Installing a custom cam and 2 barrel weber helped but the ratio is so horrible it makes it almost impossible to climb a steep, curvy, rutted hill. Currently looking for something to transplant to where I don't have to increase width.

Sycarms,

Does your gy6 150 climb better?

What about changing the sprocket gears?

Is it a cvt or stick shift?

The clutch was another reason why i chose the hondamatic.....I feel like a clutch would be a hindrance to me but im sure id get used to it but every qaud ive ever had or driven has be semi auto or fully auto.

I would not want to be shifting and using a clutch either. I want me and my kids to be able to keep both hands on the wheel at all times.

Yes on tight rough trails it climb's great. One place we go in Missouri power line hill we call, it is about 90 degree hill 1/4 mile long. My 650 will not make it half way for I cannot keep the momentum due to the ratio as explained. My 150 makes it no problem. The only problem is if I catch a rut or root the front end is so light it will come off the ground and if I don't let off fast enough I'll flip backwards which I come close to doing a few times. But keep in mind my 150 is a single seat buggy so it is lighter than a 2 seat buggy and the motor is now a heavily moded 210 cc.

Something to consider when buying an engine to upgrade with is that some have keys that must match the ecu of the engine. If it has no keys it WILL cost you 100's of dollars to create a solution.

Many engines have what is called immobilization for anti theft. If the ORIGINAL key is not present, It can not start and there is no bypass, hot wiring or any other work around, PERIOD!

There are work arounds but they cost equally as much to set up and and learn to program

Yep. One way is to send off your ecu and get a immobilizer to send as well and then they program a chip to the ecu and mobilizer and place the chip into an uncut key. Then if you keep the uncut key on the vehicle it can start with any key.

However, even this is super duper expensive not counting shipping back and forth. Can cost you more than the engine and if you cut a key, oh boy $$$$$.

I have yet to run into that on off road vehicles.

I haven't heard of it yet on 4 wheelers and the smaller toys. Take it with a grain of salt but I've heard some of the more costly side by sides might start seeing chipped keys in the next few years.

Frankly with the cost of those things it will never effect me. I'd rather go spend a fraction and buy a tracker, sidekick, sammi that is much more capable and street legal.

It can cost upward of $850 just for lost keys because they have to program the ecu, recut keys etc.