'05 50cc Raider Classic - fun project
 

Hello everyone. So I picked up my buggy on a trade, non-running. Switched the battery and the lights worked. We'll all of a sudden the lights stopped working. The 20 amp fuse is good, switch isn't getting any power.. what is something simple that could cause the lights to stop working ? Rectifier? CDI? All grounds have been checked and are solid.

The picture measuring volts and power to the switch. It is constantly changing from .3 to 1.5v

After I can get the lights to work, I need to find out why I'm getting no spark from my new plug..

2005 Dazon Raider Classic 150CC

New regulator did not work. Actually causes my 20A fuse to blow.

Anyone know why I'm getting no power TO my ignition switch (keystart)?
If I unplug a relay, I get more power..

The first picture is the plug closest to the battery
The second picture is the other end connection for the keystart (with relay & keystart unplugged).
The third picture is the old (left) regulator/rectifier, and new (right).

Update:
So the wires that go inside the frame must be fried, because bypassing the power from the battery to the ignition switch is working. May need to pull the wires out of the frame and see.

Source of loss power while engine was off: soaked & exposed wires (to the key ignition) inside the frame (3rd picture).

Well the only thing left to draw down the diagnostic of no spark is my stator.
It will crank over with the switch, all my lights work now, my brake switch is on, my starter is rotating the flywheel.. but still no spark

New spark plug, new coil, new CDI. All grounds are good.

I believe my new rectifier (4 pin, looks physically the same as my old one) is made for a 8 coil stator, pop the flywheel off and find a dirty 6 coil stator. Is this why every time I plug in my rectifier I pop a fuse?

Should I upgrade to a 8 coil stator? What all would this effect? My current stator is caked in dirt and dried mud. The 8 coil stator + flywheel upgrade is $43.

maybe try the original rectifier? and clean the stator.

Good idea, wasn't sure you are able to clean them. I'll try it this weekend

Cleaned the inside of the flywheel, cleaned the stator (used brake cleaner). Old rectifier plugged in. Still no spark.

What should I try next? :(

I'm just getting into this one... so I'm sorry if I recommend things that have already been tried.

Much if what you've done troubleshooting is sound, though some of the replacements add a few variables. I'd go back to the original CDI and reattempt, if you haven't already. You located a ground through damaged insulation in working in the frame. I assume the stator windings have a varnish on them of sorts that provides insulation to the windings. I would thoroughly inspect it and do a ground check to ensure it is not a path to ground. If there's a way to check continuity, it'd also make sure the winding isn't open. It's hard to see an open on a set of winding. When I've seen them, it's been in generators that are reverse powered, and then... if you can see the defect, it's on the first turn of the winding. If there's a thicker portion of the stator that is essentially an output terminal, it'll usually thin out where the winding starts, and that's where you get it.

You've replaced a great deal. W/just a multimeter and not a megger, it might still have a ground issue depending if the voltage that is going to the plug are sufficient to punch through a spot in the insulation. I'd look at the plug wires as well (I'm sure you've done this) and not all plugs are the same... Ive seen some of the plugs touted to be gy6 plugs have too small of a terminal causing the plug to have no spark. If you're getting the starter to turn it over and power to the accessories, there oughta not be much left. I'm a navy electrician by trade... while I've not had to troubleshoot a gy6, there's not a lot to them. I think you're close and solved the big issue of bad wiring grounding to the frame. If you can disconnect each component and do component level troubleshooting, you can rule out ever individual component. Again, you getting new parts are all variables (though I'd of done the same). I'd check each component.

I just checked and the GY6 engine manual and it has a quantifiable measurement for pretty much everything starting around page 60-ish. If you look at the circuit diagrams, there are also body grounds that exist to make the whole thing work. Make sure that the components are grounded, as appropriate,

Replaced the stator and left old CDI on, no spark.
Replaced the stator and replaced the CDI, spark.

Now I can't get it to fire up. Very clean carb, brake cleaner won't fire up.
Kill switch is not engaged, and brake light switch is on.
I can turn the flywheel by hand, will low compression prevent it from starting?
I can hear "Hsss" when I turn the flywheel, so there is compression.

I guess my next check is my valves.

Hmmm.... heres something I've never seen before...

What do I need to do to put the chain back on the cam?

omg ! yes ur going to have to get the piston at tdc, and time it with the camshaft

Yes... low compression will cause a hard start. No compression has prevented starting in the past... one of my buddies didn't set their timing right, but the lack of compression was because of bent valves. Your timing must be set right. You set your fan to the TDC Mark and have your camshaft at it's TDC Mark. Best thing to do is google picture as they'll show what I'm talking about. If you've been trying to turn it over w/o timing set, it would run poorly or possibly not at all. At worse, the valves will be bent, with a greater risk w/an aggressive cam. You should always bar/turn an engine by hand if you've affected timing to ensure it's set right.

The chain is held tight by a tensioner that is on the top of the engine... 2 bolts, I think 8 or 10mm hold them on. Loosening then will release the tensioner and give you some slack. You'll loosen the 4 bolts holding the rocker arms which holds the camshaft in place. You'll be able to cock the camshaft slightly and have the slack to get the chain around the camshaft. Check timing. It may take a few attempts to get it on the right tooth.

Took the black plastic off.
Removed the tention piece held by two bolts.
Removed the piece holding the valves (4 bolts).
Aligned the flywheel to TDC.
Alligned the gear for TDC.
Measure .004 gap.
Reset the tension using a flathead.

Fires up, but not an easy start. May recheck the gaps again.
I have to give it gas.

The exhaust is not connected, very loud! Has a metal shield around where it is not connected

Took the gear out of neutral to forward, works.
reverse does not work.

I'd put the exhaust back on... I don't think I'd ever run right w/o the back pressure and the velocity that the exhaust gases have by having the exhaust back on. There is a choke (enrichment valve) on the carbs... still, I'd try to let it idle and let the motor warm, then see if it wants to idle better then... that may tell you something in itself. Check for loose hoses/vacuum leaks. You've been digging deep and taking a lot of big stuff apart and putting them back together. One vacuum leak from a hose disconnected can cause a poor idle. I don't know if you have the stock intake, but you also try variations of snorkel hose on/off... filter in/out etc. I found that the idle was never that great until I got rid of that extra 'snorkel' hose it came with... and did better still w/a unifilter on a velocity stack I made from some old hose that was on the airbox. The stock airbox setup just absolutely choked the engine to the point it could barely breathe.

The first time I tried to adjust the lash, I thought I had it good, but I must have had the rocker arms loose or tighten/loosened something in between because it ran so-so and I could hear valve noise. Turns out I'd adjusted from super tight to waaaay too loose. Took me 2 tries. Remember too, 1 tooth off on timing will equal a poor running engine so make sure you're dead on TDC.

If you got it running and trying to idle, even if it's poorly, you're making progress.

Oh... for your gears... there are adjustments at the motor that you can see move when you use your 'shifter'. They may need to be adjusted.

My buggy and apparently many others have a plastic piece that the cable comments to on the motor that does the shifting. They aren't built really well and are prone to failure. I had mine break and replaced it. The replacements are aluminum and much more sturdy. I though I had reverse go out once and that was the issue. I had spent the first year or two with it, loosening and tightening the shifter and making adjustments at that piece on the motor trying to get it just right... but it had a lot of slop and finally broke. I've not adjusted it in the years since I replaced it. That plastic piece was junk.

I can't put it (exhaust) back together, it either snapped off or rusted off in the middle. I'll have to buy a new one.
Did not have an air box connected to the carb. Carb currently has no air filter, but I do have one ready to put on.

It does idle. Put it in gear and doesn't move much. Doesn't bogg, just doesn't move.Have not checked the CVT side yet, more concerned about idle first.

I'll post a video in a few days, heading out of town tomorrow.

Not having anything on the carb maybe a problem in itself. A small velocity stack going to some sort of filter would be good.

I got you on the exhaust. In a pinch just to get you by, there is some exhaust repair tapes and the like at Auto parts stores just to squeak by with to get it back together to continue troubleshooting.

I'd check the back for the piece (looks like a semi-circle disk thing the cables run into) i was talking about to see if you can get reverse back. Until you've got a filter and an exhaust back on... I don't think you're going to need to care about dialing in an idle. It'll never run quite right w/o either.

Good luck.

Thank you for the assistance! What a project it has been, but at least it's running now.

I have all new fuel lines, vacuum hoses, fuel filter, clamps, air filter.
Purchasing a new exhaust.

I will update once all installed. Should idle a lot smoother.

Then I can worry about the variator / clutch / belt, etc. on the CVT.

It's fine. I got some help on here years back when I got my buggy. Forum doesn't seem too active anymore, but I did some work on my buggy this past summer and have tried to be more active since I got a bit of wrench time in finally.

I think you've brought it back to life. If I were you, I'd get it back together enough and try to drive it a bit and keep tweaking until it goes from not great to better and better. Mine was like that for a bit. It could still be better but it's finally running so good now I'm too busy riding and enjoying to to work on it for awhile. If you can get it to run and go fwd and backwards... ride it and tweak as you go. Perfection is the enemy of good enough. If it's good enough to ride... ride it today, tweak it towards running perfect tomorrow.

Here are some pics of my variator. Very black.

New variator assembly, or clean it with brake cleaner?

I'd just clean it up w/whatever, and then I wouldn't put a lot of work into it. The belt will wear a little along w/the clutch pads and you'll get fine dust in the CVT housing. As long as it isn't badly grooved or something, the belt won't care if it isn't shiny. I put a little grease in w/the sliders. Graphite based stuff may be better, but it's what I had on hand.

What do you suggest is causing no acceleration (VERY slow) ?

It's not bogging down, it revs high but doesn't move. Isn't a carb issue, has to be in the CVT. Not sure if it's the clutch or variator (sliders).
Belt is good.

Agreed. I'd get the back off the groind, have the CVT open and inspect it's operation.

Variator is not opening up when accelerating the engine
Sliders are in the right position

I'm just going to order a whole new variator set with rollers (13g) for $15, new clutch with bell for $27, and gates belt for $15.

New variator with new 13G rollers, still not moving. Could it be the belt? 743-20-30

Or clutch?

Here is the variator when I put the throttle cable:
https://youtu.be/c52ooBqNEa4

Thats me holding the gas down for a bit too.. doesn't feel like it's hitting it's max potential

And when I started it up, gas spewed out of an overflow hose connected to my valve cover...
https://youtu.be/96hkZzlCSfw

Just ordered a new belt and clutch assembly.

That gas coming out of the valve vent hose??? WOW, think you got something deeper going on in the engine.

Looks like some slack in the belt. Hard to tell from video. Once you get everything together and belt on. Then get it started, the belt will tighten. Once shut off, there should be no slack AT All in the belt. either wrong belt, or very worn.

There is no slack in the belt

Ordered a new fuel petcock, may order a new carb. This is to fix the flooding to the engine.. getting gas out the fuel hose and vacuum hose..

Popped the valve cover off, Timing chain is slipping..
Appears to be stretched. I reset the tention using a flathead and is fully extended, still a lot of slack in the chain..

Installed my new gates belt and clutch, but can't get it fired up lol.

Just one problem after another...

Did you make sure you changed the oil?

Check the compression, you might have wiped the rings out turning it over with gassed thinned oil.

Can't check compression if my timing chain keeps jumping.

Check the torque on your clutch and variator nuts. The variator should be around 28, and the clutch should be around 36-40 foot pounds of torque (Check the manual for your specific model). If you get the nuts too tight, it will not allow either to engage and puts too much tension on the drive.

I had this same thing happen to me when I first got my buggy. I was using an impact driver to take them on and off. I didn't want them coming off when driving, so I gave them a little extra squeeze. My buggy wouldn't go anywhere. Thought I had really messed something up.

The timing chain tensioner (unless it is bad) is self adjusting. It will adjust itself to the correct amount of tension. Just let it idle for a bit and then take it for a easy drive.

Also, just FYI, check your ignition switch. I was loosing the frame ground on mine when I got it. Sometimes it would start and sometimes it wouldn't. I took mine apart, held both grounds together with a pair of needle nose plyers and touched the hot wire to them. Fired right up. I replaced it with a push button switch. The first time mine wouldn't start was after I took my carb off and cleaned it. I thought I had messed something up when I cleaned it. Took it off 3 times before I figured out it was the ignition going in and out.

Updates:

Redid my bolts on my variator and clutch.
Installed new carb. This one has a fuel/air screw on it, my last one didn't.
Installed new fuel petcock.
Installed new timing chain. Very tight!!!! Last one was so loose.
Fired right up, purs.. excelerate and the belt is shifting properly! :)
My exhaust fix came apart. So waiting for the new layer of this muffler fix liquid to dry.

Did two oil changes to flush out the gas. Noticed a slice in one of radiator hoses.

Did a gear oil change. Noticed a gasket is broken as I'm leaking gear oil.

When I excellerate, a lot of white smoke comes out of my exhaust. Idle no smoke. Low to mid throttle no smoke, but when i open full throttle it smokes bad. What could be the cause?

Will do a compression test soon.

I have not test driven it yet, only testing on jack stands. I did not run it for too long either. Could the white smoke be any left over gas in the oil?

You mean white smoke?? That's coolant getting into the combustion chamber. You are gonna have to take it apart and hopefully it's just a head gasket. Check and make sure there are no cracks or the head is warped while you have it apart.

Does sound like a head gasket. However, you will usually see smoke at idle if the head gasket is bad. Could also be a stuck or floating valve. Is it running ok at full throttle? Making any noises?

Hey guys, I ran it a little and the white smoke seems to be gone. I even decided to do a small test drive. But I'm getting no power at half or full throttle. It's bogging. I can't remember which way the A/F screw goes; in or out?

I also can't make it up the slightest incline..

Compression test: 70psi. Recommendations?

Testing with throttle wide open.

I'm also using 13g rollers.

When I'm going down a slight slope, I still can't open throttle because it boggs...

Sounds like it is getting too much fuel. Did you re-jet the carb? Change the exhaust size? Try taking the exhaust off and see if it does the same thing.

What about low compression?

Brand new carb, same as stock.
Stock exhaust.

Too much fuelwill choke the engine and produce low compression. Too little fuel can do the same thing. You said that you have a new carb. You may not be getting enough fuel. Are the jets the same size as the old. Most gy6 aftermarket carbs come with a smaller size main jet. Usually around a 105 - 108. You need to see what size your old jet was. You also need to see if you have the same size emulsion tube. After markets usually have slightly smaller holes.

If your old jets are larger, I would clean them with a wire brush and use them.

Have you pulled your spark plug? What does the tip of it look like? If it is white, your running too lean. Dark brown / black, your on yhe rich side.

If you need to adjust your air mix...with your buggy on a stand/ block, adust your idle high (around 1k).. turn the screw clockwise untill the engine starts to bog down. Turn back counter clockwise untill you find your peak rpm. You may have to go back and forth a few times.

:evil:
yes 70psi is low compression, at 70 i'm surprised it started. are you sure you did it right, throttle wide open?

Yes throttle wide open, but I have the Pittsburgh brand... not the best one..

Ordered a jet kit. Waiting for it to come in the mail.

Still can't think of a solution for the smoke.. piston rings or whole new kit?

Adjusted the gear cable so reverse works now.

In my opinion for the smoking is to buy a non bore in cylinder and head kit. 61mm typically bolts right in.

This will give you new power due to compression, clean running and keep the carbon from building up on the valves.

Before I tore my engine apart, it was also lacking power and smoking. I knew it was lacking power because I have two buggies and this one was noticeably slower. Also harder to start.

After tear down, I could see so much hard deposits on the valves. Probably added a little compression but man it looked terrible due to the oil burning.

Are you sure a 61mm will bolt right up, no modification and nothing machined?? I'm tempted but I don't want to shed out $70 and it doesn't fit..

Already about to pay $105 for a damn exhaust..

Some kits may need you to bore for it and others are no bore needed. If you buy from ebay and it says no bore needed and it is incorrect, they have to take it back by ebay policy.

In most cases, 61mm is the largest you can go without the need to bore.

Here are a few link to current ebay auctions I am sure there is more:

Taida is the best of the best:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scooter-GY6-...NZg40U&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GY6-150cc-Hi...hZifud&vxp=mtr

You can always go with a 58.5mm. It will 100% bolt up without boaring.

That kit says "Not for P series engines (1P57QMJ)" all over it.

That just so happens to be my engine.. DZ1P57QMJ

That is a super bummer that you have the P engine. From my experience, your pretty much limited to stock.

If it were me and I wanted more power potential and options, I would buy the gy6 150 common to where you have really no limit. You can keep it as is stock for awhile and then opt to big bore and stroke later if wanted.

Otherwise it seems you are throwing good money at bad.

I don't mind getting stock, that's fine. If I really wanted power, I wouldn't be using a Chinese gy6 engine lol

I think I can get stock 57 for $60
https://www.ebay.com/itm/192104620114

And get my exhaust welded..

As JerseyDevil pointed out to me, go with "Made in Taiwan" parts and leave the China stuff alone.

Taiwan parts are inspected before they leave the assembly line and are much better quality. They cost a little bit more, but you get what you pay for.

Okay I'm going to order that then..

I've never done this before, so I plan on watching multiple YouTube videos.

Wish me luck! I will update after

Recommend jet size? 26mm carb, I currently am using stock idle and #125 main. Do you think I'm still lean?

Jets are going to be trial and error untill you find what works for your setup. I orderd this a while back. It has worked well for me.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01M7...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There is a lot of info on YouTube, and we're all here when you need us.

Good Luck!!

Swapped the cylinder and piston to the 58.5 you suggested.
Using a 130 main and 38 idle jet. Runs great!! No more smoke!



When I drive on the road, the wheels seem very wobbly.
Also brake lights aren't working (pressure sensor). Tail lights work. Brake lights work when I touch the two ends together with a screw driver.

Thanks everyone!

Here are some pictures.

Sk8almost44
I am rebuilding the same buggy as you ..
Would it be possible for you to send me a couple of photo's of the engine bay ..
My buggy was robbed of it's engine and there seems to have been a bar cut out ..
Thanks
Rgds
Chris