Sounds like a great turkey day!

[QUOTE=metalstudman1;18090]Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Hope you all ended up full and lazy!!!
so taking advantage when it counts put's me in front slinging mud on her!!!
QUOTE]
Thats the spirit!! :biglaugh:

Can't keep my little one out of it now!!! I finally got my taller front tires changed out onto the aluminum rims.Spent the better part of a day making a skin template out of floor protection resin paper.Got started putting the body on-3' x 8' x 1/8" aluminum :banghead: Never again will I use aluminum this thick again unless the skin is the structure. I have to use what I got-since it was free/donated I'll continue to "BEAT" it into shape!! I figure I'll let you see it in stages to get an idea of what it might look like when it's finished. I'm so thankful I at least lined up all the connections of the tubing for a fairly smooth contour. Got lucky :biggthumpup: my template from one side to the other was only off by 1/4" in the length. After playing around in the mud I found I may not need fenders-we'll see! Something I thought was strange & never paid attention to was that all the buggies I've seen don't completely enclose the front wheel area. Anyone know why?

that's fully badass, M.
looks great!!

try annealing the bend lines before you work the sheet; it'll make it much easier.

looks like you need an english wheel & planishing hammer now for all your projects. ;~) I think a lot of times, the front end is left open just to have a better view of any protruding rocks etc.

Lookin good.

Good question about why the front is not covered.
I can rattle of a few reasons why I don't.
easy access to front end componets for service, cleaning, etc.
Weight.
Air flow and cooling, it can get pretty hot and stuffy under the sheet metal.
I could tolorate all the cons to a full wrap if I knew it was nessesary for protection, safety or needed for structual integrity. but for me I like the open feel.


I'm curious about the pedals you're using? They look like a type I have been looking for.

Having delt with China for a number of years, cost is probably the number one reason.

Pedals are from the Baja65 (Baja motorsports) They do say "stop & go"

Thanx for the info/opinions about closing in the frontend- I guess if we didn't have so many downed limbs/sticks that get run over and have to be un-lodged regularly and the mud holes spraying/splattering our feet- I'd just leave them open too!

I like the idea of being closed, I plan on doing that to my joyner.

I asked my wife if she liked her Spiderbox closed in and she said" My feet don't get wet now while hitting the mud holes" She said her feet would slip on the pedals.She said she's never experienced any heat either. Just for graphic purposes- here's pic's of how much mud would've hit the front floor board of this buggy after just one mud puddle.

I feel the same way. I do like to get muddy when ridding and thats half the fun. You still get muddy with the front end covered but your feet stay dry. Just like an atv, you'll get plenty muddy but your feet are protected. This gives you more control of the pedals.

Progress is slow- it's cold now!!!Well I got the frontend to a stopping point! Haven't decided if I'm going to mount my winch in the nose section yet- so I'm going to tackle the back end while I decide.
I originally planned on a flat hood but decided to spend the extra couple of hours bowing it for better run-off. I may have to add another rib under the hood for support if it deflects too much while driving-too muddy to test!
Haven't mounted the dash just yet either- debating on bottle holders and glove box arrangement. One of these years I'll wash it!!!!(probably right before I strip it for paint)

Loonin good

How'd you know:lmao:

that thing is awsome

Wife got a flat so I moved the buggy out and sprayed it off- Well I guess it does make a difference if it's clean!!!!

you need to put a run of metal "teeth" around that opening! ))) That thing is brutal!

Actually made a couple of paper templates with just that design for fun!! (to mock my wife's smiley face on her Siderbox!) If I don't put the winch up front I could make it work. The winch idea is for being able to pull our other buggies out and to help put this on a trailer if we ever venture somewhere else to play.

only thing missing is a gun mount and the zombies would have their hands full

sorry forgot to include this in my last post, but i think the winch would be more rewarding

Bootboy1488,Welcome home by the way- Gun mount is possible!!!! The winch is going to wait till warmer weather as I closed up the front already to kill the COLD draft.

I say go for both the gun mount and winch.

don't forget the smoke grenade launcher out the back! That's a must-have. ))

Well while were at it, a modular helmit with night vision and onscreen viewing of all gauges as well as a capability to 360deg. viewing will be a necessity with all the other acessories so you can drive stealth with no lights at night.

i can help with the night vision, gun, and tactics.

:hooaray::hooaray:OK now were talking!! What do we mount a Barrett 50?:hooaray::hooaray::hooaray:

Wow!! and I thought I had issues!!! Us boys and our TOYS!!! Great ideas gentlemen, we'll see what we can do!

Na, ammo is expensive for a 50. you need 2 of these!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3htG_a2bYI8&feature=fvst

Bootboy1488 already knows - I'm not a gun person!!! But 300pilot that is an awesome video and weapon :biggthumpup: If I was going to put a REAL gun on it that little thing would be the one I'd choose!

sorry to bust into thread buggy looks cool

but I would mount this, go to about 3 min in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05AXBOBLMik

Yea man, just what is needed for the finishing touch. I guess the Barrett can be the backup gun for when you run out of batteries or ammo.

Naw! Forget the guns they add too much weight. Just run them over! Thats so much more personal and rewarding!
About those body panels... after seeing your fantastic job and how smart the ride looks and after you guys bringing up the point of dry feet.. I'm gonna seriously consider this! I got grapic designs going on in my head.. and racing stickers, you know they always run faster after putting stickers on

I thought they run faster with sponsorship...

I agree with both of you about the stickers!!! Lot's of ad space on this contraption!!!
We had to go play today- here's some recent pic's

if you ever want to play around with some guns, give me a holler. but for the buggy have you thought about a small brush bumper to keep saplings from taking the wheel out of your hangs?

Thanx for the invitation- A brush guard/bumper is a must- just haven't got that far!!! The steering on this isn't as sensitive to the roots,rocks,stumps and saplings as the Helix, the taller tires make a difference.
I haven't made the rear panels for it yet either, trying to get the kid's buggy running.

this is a really sharp looking buggy too. hopefully ill have enough time and patients to eventually build my own.

i apologize for posting this here. is your message box still full? i have a few questions about modding my CVT.

Cleared out- Go for it!!!!Thanx for the compliment. Don't know if I'd go so far as to say it's a sharp looking buggy- I built in items to make it more functional for our trails and comfort while keeping the length and width minimal. The brow on the roll cage is for contacting the limbs well before your face (windshield is a winter thing), the seating area is much larger than most, the side tubes have a knuckle bend that protrudes out further than the rest of the body so it drives and impact down and away- these items are different than most other buggies & that gives it character!!!

well those features make it look "mean"

Your panel work looks awsome. I want to do this to my Joyner.

are you planning on enclosing the motor with the sheet metal? if so have you thought about using that heavy duty sheet of mesh (looks kind of like porch lattice) that you used to see on windows for security? it will let the motor still get some air, keep the big chunks of mud and sticks out all the while keeping it "mean" looking.

How does the mono shock ride? Does it throw the buggy side to side?

Great job on the buggy, ultimate recycling! Thanks for sharing all the build info and pictures. Keep up the good work.

The mono shock gives a very smooth,soft ride just like on an ATV. there's no pitching or difference than with dual shocks that I can tell. Using a Mono shock is all about angle. The IRS portion has issues!!! Getting un-sprung weight right with wheel pitch is proving to be a challenge, but I'll get it right- or live-able through experimentation, if not I'll change over to a straight axle. All my builds are experimental just to see what combination of parts provide the most "Fun Time" in a buggy.

Bootboy1488- I have more aluminum sheets and ABS plastic to finish the rear panels- venting/airflow and access to the all the parts is my biggest consideration-Mesh would be a consideration though- "Function over Form"
Getting the kid's buggy up & running has taken priority over the completing of this buggy right now.

what about welding bolts to the frame and fastening the rear panels down with wing nuts and washers for easy break down?

I have many nuts/bolts welded to the frame for easy removal of big items!! vibration & twisting attributes on a buggy doesn't make a wing nut practical for me unless it had nylon in it. I'm lazy!!! I don't want to have to remove things to work on it for maintennace.So I designed the body panels that provide access. I have all the paper templates made for the balance of the panels, it's just not a priority right now, they don't make it function better!!! just look better!!!

The saga continues!!!!! A few weeks ago I went to drive this thing and NO SPARK again.:banghead: After a very thorough check of all the electrical components the coil is dead. A new coil is upwards of $140+ without caps, and one of the carbs stills overflows due to a bad seat. (racegeekjim did offer me a spare set of carbs cheap) The engine works but not well enough to keep dumping money into it even though it has only 2600 miles on it. Found a $200. Craigslist deal for a 1986 Honda VFR700F with 33,000 miles instead. Granted this will have a clutch but my crowd here will just have to learn!!! This motor has only about a 78 HP rating but has 40+ft. lbs. of torque, this is over my 50 HP rated Polaris tranny but I'm going to try it.
Since all my stuff is experimental I may modify the swingarm again for improved tire angle/travel on the IRS portion. Also I'm going to try and shorten it a little.
I haven't tried a V4 motor yet- so it's got my interest up and it's another challenge for me.
Anyone own/owned one of these? suggestions?

$200 is a good price.ive been told the vfrs had a week trans,a friend had one and it lost 3rd or 4th gear but was still fast.he drove it that way for a long time and still talks about the bike.
i would get it just check the trans if you can.good luck

before you buy it make sure it's got a full load of coolant and the rad fan still works - infamous for fan crapping, subsequent overheating & associated engine damage.
200 bucks is a killer deal for a running vfr.
the early 750's had cam issues; i cant recall if that was squared away by the time they released the 700cc version due to harley whining to the govt.
anyway, it'll be a very major power improvement.
looking forward to seeing it come together

I suspect you will be having to upgrade the front end to handle the power of that VFR.

I suspect the operator of that spider box will eventually become jealous

Also an upgrade of the kids safety equiptment. If this motor don't work out I eventually can see a SB 350 going in this buggy. LOL

Here's what $200. get's you!!! Got lucky as many of these deals aren't deals.
Had to verify it would run while in the bike-pulled the plugs, checked the oil, checked for spark, un-froze the throttle, of course no keys, so no fuel tank access, hot wired the ignition, hooked up a Yerfdog gas tank and jump started it at the soleniod. It sprayed a ton of water out of the exhaust!!!!! up swept pipe makes for a gutter!!! What you hear is 6,000 rpm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuLCs...ature=youtu.be

Sorry I didn't reply to everyone's comments-
Everyones opinions/concerns are valuable to me - please wear me out!!!!
roysheepdog- haven't check the tranny yet, thanx for the head's up
speedshopmike- first off I'd bought it already,Looked it up before buying it (I knew nothing about them) this is the year they did the cam drive/valve/rocker/oiler change. Radiator was damaged from being dropped or wrecked so no coolant!!! but I knew this before buying it and I knew I have radiators and fans.
GX150- what are the concerns on the frontend?
bootboy- she don't care!!!
Tom- what's wrong with the 3-point retractable seatbelts that I have in it?

After seeing the size of the motor I may not get to shorten the swingarm!!!! It's a LONG/LARGE engine. Carbs look like a nightmare to remove for cleaning too!!!
Now for the real work to start!!!

you've got your video set to "private" )

Sorry- it's changed

The additional speed and torque of that engine will destroy the front arms if they hit something. With lesser motors, you have a better chance of stopping before it tears them up if something gets in the way.

Will you be using a foot petal for the clutch? Maybe you could use one of those gyro's on BMx pedal bike handle bars and have a hand clutch on your steering wheel?

This buggy isn't going to be set up for more speed than the 400cc had (50-ish mphs). More torque is hopefully the improvement along with reliability. But I will pay attention to the A-arms. I still have to find a reasonable priced set of HD struts & springs as these are WORE out and sag badly.

I've decided to put the clutch pedal back in it!!! I had thought about using my FL250 controls instead of the steering wheel- but the pedal allows for better control over all since one hand is already on a shifter. I don't want to put a clutch lever on the shifter (it's on the right)as this will make for bad habits if they ride a motorcycle later on.

how hard is it to change a clutch in it? "dad, the buggy is smoking and really stinky ..."

No clue!!! but that's just part of the process!!! I can't wait to teach my daughter how to use a clutch.

Looking awesome metalstudman1! You are getting to be a real pro with your fab and body work.

Upgrading to 25" front tires would also help, but your track will be 55-60" to get enough clearance from the frame. 22" front tires clear if you have not added teeth to your steering rack.

Right now it has 23 x 8 x 10's with more than an 2" of clearance. Where are we going with this?

By running those taller tires, the suspension is not beat up as bad. I'm not sure it would be worth the effort to go to 25's since you already run 23's on the front. The guys running 19" or smaller front tires should be paying attention though...

Okay- I understand you're comment now. I had a 23's from the start and finally found some aluminum rims that had 20's on them and I was slow to change them over.There is very little beating on this suspension right now, the camber and toe are way off with the weak struts and springs.The A-arm is on a rubber encased sleeve @ the frame connection that works very well for dampening abrupt impacts so far- Like I said I'll keep an eye on them- The vid's I take of my contraptions are as much for seeing how everything is working as they are for entertainment. Thanx for the suggestions

I figured I'd post a pic of the engine just for reference purposes.
Now that I have it out- it's not the engine that came in the bike!! Once removed there was a hand written number on the backend (like salvage yards do), the bummer is I have no clue about the mileage, the engine numbers do match for the year and model.
The Craigslist gods must have been watching out for me!! Found a reciept for $847. under the seat where the stator,flywheel,regulator & clutch were replaced and carbs were serviced back in 2006 (red RTV on the covers confirms this is the engine that got repaired). Exhaust pipes from the engine to the tail pipe collector are new as well. Carbs will need service again but that's normal.
This engine is 23" tall x 18" wide x 23-1/2" long. I haven't weighed it yet(it's heavy!!) I'm going to have to rethink my swingarm/rear suspension, the carb configuration is dead on top with little way to modify the plenum, so it ends up being 27" tall with the airbox.Fun,Fun,Fun!!!!

Sounds like a swingarm from scratch may be the best way to go.

TOM

Update- I'm going to put my 440 2-smoke engine in this Frankenbuggy as it will fit coupled to the Polaris tranny without a total rebuild. Got lucky again with Craigslist and bought 2 complete parts Polaris ATV's (cheap) to give me some of the parts I would need for this conversion, with spare trannies, clutches, drivens, brakes, struts, springs, ect...
I had a source for a starter kit for this ('77 John Deere 440 Liquifire snowmobile)the engine is a Kioritz 440 LC/23 engine but the link is gone now- Anyone have a source or a friend with one of these rotting? I'm sure the starter comes in many of the Kioritz engines.I'd love to have electric start!!!!!!

Sounds like you are not going to use the VFR after all but if you change your mind I used a 1997 VFR750 in a buggy and it was great. I have pictures in my album (DesertKarts Panther) if you need ideas on how to mount it.

Bryce

Thanx for the option- I just started a thread on "transverse engine"- that's what's happening with the VFR. The 440 isn't a shoe-horn!!!! Also it's about the same HP rating.
Which one is your's?

So after some "serious" engine shuffling/tranny configurations and head scratching- the 440cc 2-stroke isn't going to fit without rebuilding the swingarm either:banghead:
The good is the VFR700 engine is do-able turned transverse:hooaray:
This poor junk pile chassis is getting a work out, thank goodness I didn't paint it!. So if most of my ideas work out I'll be shortening the swingarm by 6"-7" which is where I originally wanted the wheels from the begining (under 9' total length).
Anybody see any major issues with the set-up?

If you plan to drive the rear via shaft, consider hard mounting the VFR engine to the chassis and using a 3-link setup on the axle.

It'll be chain driven, my first thought was to come up with a shaft drive to the axle but I don't have enough of the parts needed to do it.

It's hard to say- I'm glad it's raining!!! Now it's not playing in the dirt all afternoon with no buggy modifications happening. I started to make the drive portion of the build to verify it'll appear to work, Not every brainfart turns out to be a working idea!!! I go to drill the first hole in the backer plate and my 30+ yr. old drill press smokes the motor- Spent a day shopping for a good used drill press (an old HEAVY unit). Lucked up and a friends granfather had a barely used one for a $100. with a nice vise and some bits:biggthumpup:
Then the die grinder bites the dust :crying:- I don't know what's next but I'll will work around it.
The pic's show the sprocket and drive shaft coupler I made on the Redneck lathe and part of the housing for the differential to bolt on. This shows how it goes together for servicing. Of course trying to get things lined up for a smooth spinning drive shaft was all the work- 10,000 rpm doesn't like out-of-round parts!!!! Dodging the clutch slave unit almost made this idea a NO-GO, but got a 1/4" clearance. It's starting to look like it might work!!!!

You have me cracking up reading your descriptions and notes with pics of your redneck lathe. Redneck or not the end result is what matters and the end result is impressive. This is the problem I tell many that we have lost in our society, imagination, improvising down to earth seriously thinking. Our late generation has been cheated of this God given tallent in our now automated throwaway society. Todays youth is not taught how to think outside the box, but how to react to the corriculum taught inside the box. Great work.

TOM

Amazingly well said Tom :biggthumpup: I just tell the younger crowd that there's nothing common anymore to "common sense". Thanx for the compliment.

did you make the "bell" for the housing or was it from an original? will enough air get to the radiator/oil cooler with it sitting long ways?

The bell portion came from a small air tank,(it was the right size and thickness) and the rest of the housing is just pipe and plate steel. there isn't any original parts since it's a chain drive being converted to a shaft drive from a 3-wheeler. Cooling everything should be pretty simple by locating the radiator and oil cooler some place it'll get air. If I think what I've made will work- then I'll build the swingarm. This whole idea may just be an exercise in fabrication ingenuity and not work at all!!!!

I like it

Got a lttle more done with the drive system. Shortened the the drive shaft, it has a small wobble (.015 out-of-round) It may or may not work!!! The splined connections were loose & all got tighter with all the welding/heating and I'm hoping they loosen up some when it's powered up. These pic's give you an idea of how it's going to get placed on the swingarm and how the axle shaft (now jackshaft) put's power to the tranny. I'm going in the output side of the Polaris tranny since it's lower and using the input side for the final drive chain, this also helps "un-reduce" what the differential gave the gearing (diff. 4:1, tranny set-up is now 1:2.6= 1.4 total reduction from the engine). I doubt I'll get the right overall gear ratio with the sprockets the first time out!!! Getting closer to having all my support points located to build the swingarm.
So does anyone see any obvious issues?

Interesting build, looking good so far.

Lookin good, the only thing that would concern me is the .015" wobble which may be an issue at higher speed.

TOM

Is the wobble as measured on the outside of the end of the shaft? It may just be a variation of the outer surface. If you do verify that it is caused by the shaft being off center, you could possibly integrate a rubber donut coupler at the connection to absorb any potential vibrations.

All looks good, just wondering what kind of chain length you're going to end up with if the axles end up setback as far as they're sitting on the floor.

Tom & x-bird- The wobble was measured with the dial indicator on the outside (untouched factory end) while in the drill at the end of the shaft- looked like the coupler was out of level a touch. I have looked at putting a 1/4" rubber gasket at the diff. connection, just a small amount of clearance on the splines will help let it spin smoothly and I'm well aware of the forces/vibrations @ 10,000rpm!!!- I hooked a battery to the starter just to see what 50rpm looked like and it's not so bad I'm worried about self-destruct!!! the end going into the diff is spring loaded- it was originally designed for some movement in/out & wobble-we'll see!!!
The chain is going to be long!! but it's got to have a chain tensioner anyways, so when I put the exhaust back on I'll re-direct it then. Still to early in the build to know all the little impacts/obstructions!!! It may not work at all!!!!!!
It's a different set-up and a challenge- so I'm game- can't just do what's easiest all the time!!!!
I always have the option to turn the engine around the normal direction as I've only altered the sprocket ($20 part) if it all goes south!

I've done very little with motorcycle/quad engine/trannies before, so i'm enjoying learning from what you're putting up. Any thoughts to setting the engine back so the output shafts are right above the axles? I know it'd make for a looong swingarm, but the overhang weight could also be used to counterweight the suspension ...

So we both have the same amount of experience!!!!!
The issue for me was the length of the buggy in our tight trails and trying to reduce the total length. As it stands right now the motor will be at the back of the swingarm and I'm not sure where I'll be able to run the shocks!! The other swingarm was looong 31", anything is possible and my mental game-plan may change as it get's further along.
The biggest surprise with this idea was when I turned the output on the engine into the differential it spun clockwise(backwards)so it made me flip the motor around to get it to turn correctly moving the axle to the other end. This motor is very heavy, so another concern is axle strength.

Sort of was trying to figure out which end was which in the picture ...so from what you're saying, the outputs are at the rear? I was thinking it was the front. At one point, i was really trying to workout a bellcrank/pushrod - horizontal shock position for the front of the yerf. In that instance it just turned out to be overthinking the obvious. ... I know it's cart before the horse, but .... lol

I agree with you wanting to keep it as short as possible for even 6" of length will increase the turning radious quite a bit.

TOM

Sorry if I've confused you - the last set of pic's is correct for orientation. The tranny and diff, are next to the cockpit with the engine at the rearend. The axle is planned to set just behind the back of the engine (engine will be setting below axle level).

Tom you're absolutely correct- with the longer swingarm I had to drive past an obstacle by several inches before turning to avoid clipping the rear tires. Also getting high centered on hills isn't fun with the longer length. A more comfortable ride is all you get with length!!!

Length can be done without loosing radius by also widening, but again this defeats the purpose on smaller trails. However a 60" front width will work on most smaller trails.

TOM

60" is my max. width here as I made all the trails with a Bobcat (5' bucket). The front wheel width is 56" and the rear will be 57"-58".

Figured I'd make an update- I broke the fuel supply tubes (old & brittle) on the carb's after cleaning them to test my drive shaft wobble. Figured I better see if the homemade shaft drive wasn't going to self-distruct at higher rpm's before spending more time and effort on the swingarm design. I should have done some research on these carbs before jumping right in on the cleaning and would've learned not to remove the plenum untill the carbs were off the engine.:banghead: Live and learn!! Found an individual online that started making the fuel tubes since they've been discontinued for years. So as soon as I get the new ones the build is stalled out.
The weather has been so nice this winter I'm not getting anything done anyways!!! Lot's of playtime very little fabricating,LIFE IS GOOD:biggthumpup:

Awesome looking project. Your pics of the front suspension were exactly what I needed to see. In my other thread I noted I will be using a Honda Accord engine for the next buggy and that set up is looking like the direction we want to go. Thanks for sharing this build thread. Hope you are having fun this your new beast !!

Hows this thing coming?

Parked,gathering dust and awaiting funding.All I can do to keep the other buggies going for he kids NON-STOP driving!!!!

Time and or money will sure keep a project from going forward. Eventually it gets done and is worth it.