Roll cage Tubing ?s

[x-bird]

Given that my front hoop no longer exists I'm gathering materials to build a new cage for the yerf.
One potential goal is to build this yerf to meet the specs of a somewhat local offroad organization that has a woods course and runs about 4 race events a year and also has fun ride gatherings. I've already approached them as to whether there is a class it could participate in, a decision on that is pending review of pictures of the yerf as completed. They have allowed side-by-sides in the past year or two. Traditional classes are jeeps/trucks, buggies-- as in VW based with pretty strict guidelines as to stock VW suspension etc and ATVs. (3 wheel, 4 wheel and 4x4)

Under the buggy and truck class specs, the rules call for roll cage tubing of 1.5 OD tubing with least .090 wall thickness. I can get 1.5 at .095, so no issue there, I can get everything bent and notched, to my design.
The issue i run into is that I'd be mating 1.5" to 1" OD, for the most part, on the perpendicular. Does anyone know of any type of fittings to connect 1.5 to 1? The rules allow for either welded or plate/bolted connections. I know I can crush the ends of the tubing down to 1"x 2.?" wide oval and weld them in that way, but i have to check to be sure if that would pass their tech.

TIA for any input

[metalstudman1]

First issue is that your buggy is hundreds perhaps thousands of pounds lighter. If they let you run I doubt your chassis/rollcage parts would need to be 1-1/2". In sprint cars you only need 1" which would be a closer match to the weight of your buggy. I'd question the ruling about 1-1/2" on a 500 lbs. buggy!!! They make reduction pieces for most tubing- that's what I'd check into if you indeed need to meet the truck/Jeep requirements.

[AceFab]

I would suggest finding some class rules/specs for Honda Pilot/Odyssey based vehicles with another sanctioning body that you could supply to the group you want to race with. I think most of the Pilot/Odyssey chassis tubing was 1" but may have been 1-1/8" but I'm not super familiar with them. CORR might be one to check with, I'll see what I can come up with too.
I wouldn't think that they would allow mating 1.5" to smaller 1" tubing and personally I probably wouldn't do it. If it had to be 1.5" to meet class rules I would fab a new chassis and just swap the suspension and drive components over to the new chassis.
Racin' aint cheap anymore...

[AceFab]

Is it possible to run in the ATV class? Those guys don't have roll cages....

[x-bird]

They allow honda odysseys and in the last year of two, side-by-sides in stock form. The real issue is going at them with a 3/4 modified version of a backyard go-kart. I'm waiting on a reply from them before I buy any of the 1.5" tubing. They're a pretty old organization and are only concerned with regulating what races on their land--they don't have any other venues.

Despite the fact that most DIY builds of this size buggy are much better than what comes out of a factory, you know that tech is always going to scrutinize them harder than a factory built vehicle. To try and argue a case with regs/specs from any other group is usually a step backwards in the "relationship". I've been a tech inspector with the SCCA for pro rally and solo I and II and for numerous drag racing series that some of the magazines I worked for developed and ran. I've been on the "other" side and hit with the same basic scenario plenty of times myself. When there's no class to fit into, the best thing one can do is build to the next level up --or at least show that you're willing to.

There's a lot more than just the cage that I'd have to work on (brakes at all 4 corners, rear firewall, side bars and max side opening area etc,) and I wouldn't expect to be able to race this year, but it's something i want to incorporate into it while I'm rebuilding it so that if i decide to and have the time I've already got a major issue out of the way.

Ironically, the same basic issue has me stalled with my bird. I'd like to run it in the SCCA NE hillclimb series, which requires a 4-point bolt in cage. At the same time, i also do drag race it and am knocking on mid 11s door. If i go any quicker, i've got to put in a weld in cage, which would kick it out of the SCCA class I'd prefer to run in. So for now, no cage at all ... lol

[AceFab]

I wasn't sure if they had any Pilots or Odysseys so, that's what made me think about borrowing class specs from someone else for reference. I've raced with 5 or 6 offroad sanctioning bodies and almost all of their class rules are identical, some just change the number designation on the class but the cars are the same. Sounds like you have plenty of tech experience so, I'm positive you will be able to sort it all out. Being a tech guy yourself you know all about the safety concerns too.

The hillclimb series sounds like fun. Do you guys run paved, dirt, or both surfaces in those events, just thinking about Pike Peak? It's funny (or not) when you put in a better cage with more points everything begins to change, it's a whole new dynamic, stuff that used to work well doesn't anymore, shocks, spring rates, tire pressures...yikes. But that's why we love racing right!?

Keep us posted on your progress.

[x-bird]

The hillclimb series is all paved, part of the SCCA normal SOLO class structures and regs. It includes about 6 hillclimbs on public streets here in the northeast along with timed lap events at another 1/2 dozen or so road courses. for the scca class i'm interested in, the cage is not allowed to "improve" anything structurally. body floor bolt-in, no frame or suspension tie-ins allowed. to build one to nhra specs "voids" that.

[AceFab]

Sounds like lots of fun for sure.