150 cc

[mrace43]

I'm brand new to karting. We recently looked to order a kart through a local dealership. We considered the Sahara 150 by Kindroad and the 150 Quantum (I believe it was by American sportworks) The dealership claimed they couldn't get a response from these manufacturers so he ordered a different one which I can't find any clear name on. I finally found the place he ordered it from (Sunny Sports out of California). They told me the Manufacturer was MDL Model GK-C012 I have been able to find virtually nothing online about this cart and at this point I'm just wondering if I've been ripped off or if this is actually a decent cart. It seems to run good and looks decent but I don't really have anything to compare it to since it's my first cart. Does anyone know anything about this make of cart. Top speed seems decent (I would estimate 35-40 mph) but acceleration seems a little sluggish. This may be normal for a 150cc but I don't know. Here is a link to the cart I received http://www.powersportsmax.com/produc...ducts_id/11216 Any help or feedback regarding this product would be much appreciated. Thanks. Matt

[SYCARMS]

I personally am not familliar with that buggy. I am a Kinroad dealer and have never had a problem with contacting Kinroad. Either Mae or Michael will answer the phone. As far as the buggy it depends on what GY6 motor it has. There is one version which if you ever want to mod the engine the normal performance parts available will not fit it. One way to tell is to look on the left side of engine (exhaust side) toward the front, forward of the oil drain plug there will be a flat with the engine serial and model numbers scribed on it. The engine you want wil have 157QMJ. This is the better GY6 engine. The Kinroads new go for $2300-$2500 for the 150cc.This buggy closely resembles the Roketa GK01W, which uses the odd ball GY6 engine, which does not make it a bad engine but if you ever want to mod the engine itself you won't be able to use 157QMJ parts. Check the number for 157QMJ. TOM

[BuggyMaster]

While I wouldn't say you got "ripped off" just yet, the first two that you mentioned would certainly be a better choice in my educated opinion as they are both considered brand name vs the one you got which would be considered as a generic. The one you did get was certainly the cheaper of the bunch which is likely why they went that route. Ride it out and see how it goes.

[mrace43]

I've looked for the engine serial number and model number and can't seem to find either one. I'm hoping I'm just not looking hard enough. The name on the side of the engine is Yonghe. Is this typical?

[SYCARMS]

It will be on the drivers side of the engine. Crawl under the buggy and look below the most forward part of the cvt cover, there should be a flat section on the engine casing . The numbers will be either scribed or stamped. I have yet to run into a gy6 that did not have the numbers in this location. TOM

[mrace43]

I looked again pretty thoroughly and find nothing. At this point I'm thinking I didn't get the genuine motor. The only thing I could find was a sticker on the back of the motor that says Suzhou Industrial Park. Yonghe motorcycle manufacturing co. ltd. Engine of family 9HRVPMetalG1 Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? The cart at least seems to run decent. I clocked on a gps at 40mph tonight and was pretty happy with that based on what I hear but the acceleration as I mentioned is pretty sluggish.

[ckau]

You most likely do have a gy6, 150. Possibly a clone but that's no big deal. Compare the motor to some of the pics on the net. The sluggish take off you mentioned is one of those quirks we have so far failed to some extent in finding a happy compromise in conjunction with top speed. It's either one or the other. It's easy enough to improve the sluggish acceleration but top end speed can sometimes be affected
It's an on going R&D process to find the best of both worlds. Some aspects are in the experimental stages.
.
First, decide how you will be using the buggy. IE. terrain, Is your area hilly, rough, tight trails? or open space,
Who will be using the buggy? you or younger people?
For example: Sometimes it's best to gear the buggy low for easy/faster take offs. This reduces top speed for safety reasons where young people are involved and saves wear, tear and strain on the clutch and other cvt componets.

Tell us what you want to do with the buggy. We will walk you through the modification steps to tune that ride.

Warning! it's an addiction! These motors are so un-tuned from the factory that every mod you do can improves one aspect with some dramatic results. You keep wanting to go to the next level! Welcome to the mix!!!

[mrace43]

Thank you so much for your response. It sounds crazy but at this point I'm not sure what we'll be doing with the buggy. I actually earned this through a rewards system at work where we could earn points for a catalog. It took me 4 years. When I first started saving my neighborhood was mostly undeveloped with lots of places to ride. Now the construction is over so I have no real place to ride around here without taking it somewhere. That has become a bigger deal to since the cart was much larger than I was anticipating and cannot easily be thrown into the back of a truck. A trailer is generally necessary so we'll see how much time we have when the warm weather comes to take it places. Right now we've just been having a blast in the snow. One question I have is how much will my reliability be affected if I start modifying. I've been racing cars for a long time and one thing I learned was the faster it got the more problems I had. Right now the buggy starts instantly and runs great. Are there many mods that I can still have a reliable machine? Also, I'm sure exhaust is one of the common modifications but for riding in the neighborhood it's nice that it is quiet. Are there any better flowing exhaust systems that won't change the decibel output too much. I know what you mean with the addiction. It's the same way with cars. Thank you for all of your help.

[ckau]

Most all buggy in this class will fit in the back of a full size pickup bed. A lot of folks use ramps to load.
Alteration to the Constant Velocity Transmission won't effect reliability or dependability. Basically the changes you would make to the cvt makes the buggy more user friendly for the type of riding you choose. These modifications are the easiest and cheapest. This would be the first stage. Second stage focuses more on developing more horse power out of the motor. There you get into the problem of reliability with aftermarket carbs, exhaust and other components of the motor it's self. you understand the concept of power equals problems, this motor is no different.
The stock exhausts on these things is extremely restrictive. Unfortunately the way to gain a large amount of power is to open the exhaust up. three choices here
1. gut the stock exhaust by drilling some holes in the muffler around the exit pipe to allow more flow.Not the best but better than nothing and no cost.
2nd replace muffler with a straight through supertrap type. These have baffled tips that can be tuned for a balance between noise and power, better and not a budget killer.
3rd a complete tuned header system. VeryPricey but extremely effective in producing horsepower. the best HP for the buck item you can buy for a buggy.
Unfortunately all these changes have an effect on decibles. #1 being the worst as far as a obnoxious sound. #2 would be my choice if there could be noise complaints.#3 has a very low toned pitch that doesn't carry far until you step hard on the gas.
Any changes in exhaust will effect jetting. so plan on re jetting and an aftermarket air filter system if you choose to alter the exhaust. The air filter has to be changed out for a high volume type that allows more air flow. Because your allowing more flow out of the motor you have to provision for more air flow in. The start of that additive cycle!!!!! sometimes it's best just to leave well enough alone until you decide what you want to do

[SYCARMS]

Any time you mod an engine to go faster you are doing this to push for more speed and or power. The key word used here was "push". When ever you push something be it stock or moded the reliability level is reduced. And most people don't just drive their buggies they push them to and beyond their limit. And to justify this last statement I will add that it starts out with the basic mods, rollers, torque spring, jetting, and intake and exhaust breathing. Than it progresses into cam, bigger carb, big bore, and stroker crank. Why ? because it is in most people who love the motorsports to push the limit on their vehicle, to go faster and or more power. When ever you push something wheather stock or moded, things wear or break. This is why you will see classifieds for say atv's where in the decscription it will read vehicle was adult driven. This is not to say adults don't push their vehicles to the limit but what it really says is this vehicle was driven as intended by the manufacturer for utmost reliability. Another thing to take into account is when modding a vehicle is what is the level of experience the person moding has. I mean you won't see a Nascar vehicle owner going to the neighborhood garage to have their engine built, they will bring it to someone who has the expertice and knowlege. Change to a performance cam in our buggy and no one ever talks about checking the piston to valve clearance, or for spring bind, ect. If one of these are not proper you will have premature faillure to a greater degree than if all the checks and balances were done. These buggies are no different to mod than say your car. If you purchase the performance cam for your car the manufacturer of the cam recomends their springs as well. The engine is a precission piece of machinery where all the moving parts work in unison so when you replace one part with a performance part you are in fact reengineering that engine. How you reengineer it will depend on the reliability of that engine for its intended purpose. The cheapest way to mod the exhaust is to open the up the tiny exhaust tip on the muffler. Opening it up to say 1 1/4 inch will not increase the noise level but very slight, but it will increase the rate the exhaust flows however you will than have to replace or mod the airbox for more air flow and also rejet. Now you have to be careful cause some of the mufflers have a built in converter. This will be stated on the epa sticker or tag found somewhere on your kart. It will have mention of a catalyst. If so this muffler will not flow unless the catalyst is removed but this will make the exhaust loud. I must add that removing the catalyst is in violation of federal epa laws, and is no different than a car unless the vehicle will only be used off circuit. TOM

[mrace43]

My other question would be about suspension. Although I haven't got a chance to really take it off road, I'm not really expecting much out of the stock suspension. Do these really do okay off road with the stock set up or should I be looking for after market? If so what is the best way to go? Price?

[ckau]

The stock shocks are fair to poor for casual , slow riding. Very cheap and not very effective. most go to ebay to find a shock off a quad or 4-wheeler. A lot like the shocks off a blaster. about the right size and spring rate. WORKS custom. shocks has designed a shock just for the buggy. Expensive compared to most buggy stuff,but worth it.

[SYCARMS]

I have the Works shocks on my Blade and I will say this "nothing else compares" I can go as fast as I want over just about anything. I was driving on my land one day and at about 25mph I hit a dip in a low area and just about catapulted end over end. With the Works shocks I can take the same dip at 40+ mph and the buggy handles it without a glitch. I should also add that the first and almost disasterous time the shocks were new and adjusted all the way up. The Works were designed for our buggies so they are the proper fit and ride.I have experimented with other shocks including the Blaster shocks on my sons buggy and they don't come close to the Works. You have to be careful when choosing an atv shock, they cannot be longer cause on a strut front end it will put much stress on the joints and on the back if your buggy has the dog bone (these are the 2 links that resemble dog bones) as much as 3/4 inch will affect this suspension in a negative way. Springs cannot be too heavy. The Works have a progressive spring and totally differant valving as compared to an atv shock. These will give you optimum comfort with normal driving (better than stock) but between the gas charge,progressive springs, and valving these shocks will take just about anything you throw at them and not put undue stress on the suspension. The last ones I ordered for a customer appx. 1 1/2 years ago cost him $205.00 ea. Yes they are quite pricy but are rebuildable so you will never need another shock, and as I said prior nothing else compares, and if you compare the pricing of simular shocks from say Fox or any of the other custom performance shocks the price range is compatible. I will add one last thing,I have had the Works on my buggy since 2005 and many hard hours on them. and never had any problems with them, these are well worth the money. If anyone has an interest in a set I am a works dealer so you can call me and I can get a current price on them. TOM

[ckau]

I agree with Tom . I have been using Works shocks for almost 3 years and never had a bit of failure with the abuse I put them through. Nothing else compares to the performance. I can't rave on them enough. I use to replace shocks almost twice a year so the initial cost of the works has paid for themselves when I add up what I used to spend.
Which brings me to a question for Tom. Not meaning to highjack your thread, Mrace43 but while we are on this subject. I busted a front works shock, bent the shaft and snapped the lower mount when I slammed into another buggy when he spun out on our track.That shock sounded like a stick of dynamite when it cut loose and lost the gas charge! Who do I contact about getting this shock rebuilt? Tom? or Works directly?

[SYCARMS]

ckau I just sent you a pm. TOM

[ckau]

Pm back to you .Tom
Again , sorry to high jack your thread, Mrace43. Any luck with the exhaust system?

[mrace43]

Haven't messed with the exhaust system yet. I will probably keep things stock for now until I see how much and exactly where I will end up using the buggy. Right now, I'm still wondering if I should keep the one I have or sell it (probably would be worth more stock) and start over. I just haven't found anyone that has or has even heard of the buggy I have and I sort of think maybe I should go with one of the name brand manufacturers. When I look at mine compared to the Helix it looks a lot more rugged and the Helix (which I initially considered buying) looks cheap. But from what I've read I've seen nothing but great feed back about the Helix and other machines. Not sure what to do for now. I just don't want to start dumping money into what might be the wrong machine to start with. Once again, here is the cart I received from the dealer (not the one I originally ordered) http://www.powersportsmax.com/produc...ducts_id/11216

[SYCARMS]

As stated earlier your buggy looks like the Roketa. If the welds look good and the buggy looks solid, the engine is the same as the other popular buggies, it has the front struts, with the solid rear axle just like the Hammerhead, Kinroad, and Carter in there older models which presented no major problems. I would drive it as if you stole it for the duration of the warranty. Than I think you will have a better feeling as to weather you want to keep it or not. I think once you put the hours on it you will be more comfortable with your decission. I always say everything happens for a reason, so there may be a reason you ended up with this buggy. TOM

[rightnwrong]

I agree with you ckau. Even you spend much money on it, its service is worthy.

[mrace43]

Thanksgiving weekend we got to take our buggy on the best ride to date down to the shores of Lake Cumberland Ky. We took it along with the Meridian (110cc utility vehicle - I call it the clown car) it looks like a golf cart that was shrunk in half with off road tires. Anyway, we had an absolute blast. I was amazed at terrain the buggy would handle. It climbed right up steep hills with ease and would handle water that came up over the seat. The ground clearance was even more impressive. Both vehicles were an absolute blast. That being said I continue to be disappointed in the quality of both vehicles, mainly the buggy. We literally had to fix something every 10 minutes. Fortunately we had tools and several engineers available that were pretty handy but I'm curious if this is the norm to be expected. The most frustrating of all is parts just plain breaking for no reason on a cart that is still fairly new. The mirror broke off (the actual metal part welded to the cart holding it) while riding down a smooth trail. Both front fenders fell off (Bolts broke - non impact). The gas pedal bracket the holds the throttle cable broke (again a welded piece). All four wheels are wobbling like crazy as the back washers behind the rim are all worn out like they're just wearing away. It should be noted that this cart has only been off road a handful of times and so much seems to be breaking. There have been other things too. Is this just the way it is or are there after market parts that I can replace these pieces with that will be stronger and more reliable? I wondered if upgrading suspension would help. My thought was maybe a smoother ride would put less wear on the buggy in general but I hear after market shocks can be really expensive. One person mention $200 a piece. It seems like a lot to spend $800 on suspension for a $1400 buggy but it might be worth it if it held up better. Any thoughts on any of this?

[SYCARMS]

The more you drive it like you stole it the more that will break until the bugs are worked out. It also depends on how the buggy was put together. Let me explain: When a dealer receives a shipment of atv, buggies or whatever he will assemble them, than a good dealer will check the things that were assembled at the factory. An experianced dealer will know what needs tweeking prior to the customer getting it. This is called dealer prep.Now let us all realise that with what we pay for these buggies they are no Honda, but the cost of either will reflect this. The reason you pay so much more for a Honda is that you have many more layers of quality control which requires more people therefore the cost elevates.
This is one reason Hammerhead, Carter, Blade,Kinroad, Roketa ect. cost more than the average online buggy which may look identicle to any of the above mentioned, because they have better quality control and are more consistent with parts used procedure in building ect. So with that being said these buggies will break more than say a honda. But than again you did not pay $5000.00 for it either. The two most important things to look at are the structual frame and the engine. If these are good you are on your way with some tweeking to having a good buggy. The yerfdog has many flaws but many still own them and love them.
If the buggy was not assembled correctly by the previous owner and or dealer and nobody bothered to make periodical checks at first you will be prone to more breakdowns. You need to go thru these buggies completely and than you will still come across some weak points which need correcting, but once these weak points are corrected you will have a much more reliable buggy. But also you must realise that these buggies come basic from the factory, that is they are primarily intended for kids to drive in fields and trails. When you start to add weight,climb greater than 20deg. hills, and drive it like you stole it things are going to break. You need to mod with better parts since you are now driving a machine in ways not intended by the factory.
Yes you will have to tweek them spend money to upgrade, but you will end up with a great machine that's a blast to drive for a fraction of the cost as compared to a Honda, polaris or whatever. Now first thing is this, lock nuts used on these buggies are not the best, so after your next several rides you will need to check all bolts eg. fender,sprocket, anything found loose use red loctite on when tightening. Tighten rear hubs using an air impact making sure to line the castle nut with the hole and use the largest cotter key possible for usually the cotter keys supplied from factory are way too small, a good quality aircraft grade locking wire can be used in place of the cotter keys. Check all front end components for tightness, adjust as required. Note: do not use locktite on any component using a castle nut or if splines or tapered shafts are used eg. hubs, balljoints, tierods. Hope this is helpful and will get you much more driving time in.
Tom