need belt help

[damnpablo]

Just bought a used Manco Cart for my daughter. Its a Magnum Express 606b with the robin 6.5 hp motor. The buggy is good, but i have some issues i want to get right. The take off is a little sluggish and the drive belt slips when under any load (like grass) to the point that you can smell the belt and the clutch is very hot. On the street it hooks up a little slowly at first, but then it seems to fully grab within 5 seconds or so. I weigh 185 lbs. I looked up the correct belt and it takes belt 5959. The guy i got it from said this is a brand new belt on it but it doesnt have 5959 stamped on it. I took it off and measured it. It is indeed 27.75" od, and 3/4" wide per specs. It is also an asymetrical belt, so it looks like it may have the right one on it. You can very easily remove the belt, and if you "pinch the slack" i can get about 2 inches of belt away from the pulley. If i pull the belt making the motor pully tight, i can place my hand between the belt and the outside of the rear pulley. Does that even sound right? I thought to simply move the motor forward to tighten things up a bit, but everything slides with it. Any Advice? Also i would like to get the brakes a little tighter. And the brake pedal doesnt come back unless you pull it back with your foot after depressing it. This does make a good parking brake, but it gets old when driving it.
Thank you,
Paul

[metalstudman1]

Post some pics- they usually show most issues. Go advanced-manage attachments-browse-upload

[damnpablo]

Cant find my cable for a pic. Just a quick question on the belt size. Should i be able to easilt remove the drive belt without loosening anything? It goes on and comes off very easily. The belt measures 27.75 od and that is apperently correct, so i have decided to move the engine forward a bit to take up some slack. Took engine off and i am going to redrill holes about 3/8" forward. Am i doing something that is going to cause other problems?

[metalstudman1]

Your not damaging the kart by drilling more holes-Good for you figuring out how to resolve the loose belt issue-.The belt is "way too long" if you can slip it off/on without removing the clutch bell cover- The slack on the crank/clutch shaft should be only about a 1/4" (snug on brass bushing).

[damnpablo]

Moved motor forward about 3/8". It helped with slippage but still not cutting it. I just looked at purchasing a 5959 belt on ebay and noticed on the ad that it said this belt is ....."Use with 6" driven with 7-9/16" to 7-5/8" center to center distance or with 7" driven with 6-13/16" to 6-7/8" center to center distance."

I have the 6" driven, and even after moving the motor forward, my center to center is only 7 1/4". What is wrong here? Am I supposed to have a 7" driven on this cart? Also i can still pull the belt tight on the driver and have a 1 1/2" space between the inside of the belt and the outside edge of the driven. This just looks crazy to me. Can i just get the same belt only 26"od instaed of 27.75" od?

[metalstudman1]

sure, a belt doesn't care what it goes on!!!!- the only thing that needs to be right is that it's asymetrical type belt.The 6" driven is more topend speed vs the 7". Can you mock up a belt to determine the right length to verify that a 26" is going to be short enough?

[damnpablo]

i have looked at every go cart belt on ebay and they all are longer than the one i have. I even found a site that had comet belt charts and found the same thing. You have any suggestions of where else to look? I may just have to move the motor forward more. how much slack off the driven should be there when pulled against the driver? Should the belt stick out farther than the outside edge of the pulley?
Thanks.

[metalstudman1]

The belt should be at the top of the driven pulleys and snug/slightly loose on the shaft of the clutch.
If you haven't already viewed this link :http://www.*****************/tcbelts.htm they show clearly the proper way the belt should look.

[damnpablo]

Thanks.
I had no luck finding a shorter belt so moved the engine forward. Again. It is now about 1.5" forward of where the factory mounts would allow it to be thanks to my drilling slots and fabricating a metal extension plate so the front motor mounts actually were attached to something since i ran out of room on the plate that is attached to the jack shaft. Good news is that the belt doesnt slip anymore and it still has enough slack that it can idle without trying to engage. It appears to be about what they describe in the link you gave me. The bad news is that the driven clutch is now very jerky on take off until it can come together and lock in place. When i give it gas it will start to engage, jerk, bark the tires, release for a second do it again and then after lock in it goes fine. The plastic tabs are all in place, they dont feel overly smooth or glazed. What do i do now? I am tempted just to dump the belt drive all together and go with an old fasioned, depedable centrifugal clutch on a chain drive like my mini bike had as a kid. I have no idea of the cost or trouble this would be, and i wouldnt know what diameter/tooth counts would be comparable to the belt system. Thoughts, comments or suggestions???

[metalstudman1]

Have you taken the clutch apart and cleaned & lubed it? your issue now isn't the belt or the driven.That same link shows you what & how to do the maintenance.To put a standard clutch on wouldn't be that hard but won't last- the biggest thing you lose is variable speed ratio- in other words top end.

[damnpablo]

Thanks. i will check youtube for a video of this process. unless you can direct me to a different source. i did see one video re: another task, and it clearly showed that an impact gun is needed to get the driver nut off. I am also guessing there are springs and small parts that could be under tension. i would like to know what to expect and any tricks or tips before i just "take it apart".

[metalstudman1]

No!!! your CVT is simple!!! take the nut off the clutch cover (wrench or ratchet)pull the clutch off (no small parts will fall out unless it's trashed)Inspect the springs that are wrapped around the clutch- should be snug, not loose or falling off. Clean (wire brush)the bell cover inside where the pins touch. Removal of all the carbon dust from parts is all you need to do- spray dry lube (PB Blaster dry lube works)and re-assemble----Like I said this link shows a breakdown and provides instructions http://www.*****************/tcbelts.htm . When there is excessive carbon the pins chatter and skip causing the jerky engagemnet.On the link click on 30 series

[damnpablo]

I have finally realized that the link you keep sending me is gold and that is is much more than a belt reference chart! I did wind up taking the whole thing down to a mechanic at a motorcycle, jetski, etc, place and told him to go through, clean, and dry lube both clutches, and adjust the brakes, and just look at anything else potentaily wrong as well. I love to wrench on this sort of thing, but when its my 9 yr olds, i will pay to have it done right. I could never live with myself if she got out in traffic, hit a tree or a friend, ect...At this point the mechanic even said after a test drive that it scared him to death too. hardly any brakes, having to pull the brake pedal back to disengage brakes, jerking, barking the tires, and vibrations everywhere even at wot going down the street. My wife described the look of terror my daughter had when she took her for a spin and all this happened plus smoke bellowing from the belt when it strted to take off. I dont expect a cadillac ride from a buggy, but even the steering seems loose and raw. speaking of steering, the turn radius absolultly sucks on this thing. I guess it is a saftey thing so someone wont jerk the wheel to full lock at wot and flip it.

[metalstudman1]

Welcome to the world of USED karts!!! Most of the items you're having issues with are easy to fix- No it won't be a Cadillac but that's what makes it fun!!!!Most people that own karts don't do any maintenance on them- I wrench on our stuff because I don't trust the guy at the mechanic shop!!!!Plus I drive them and pay attention to all those rattles and vibrations to figure out what needs attention. Hope you get all your issues resolved and your comfort level goes up with your daughter driving.Your steering comment is half true-it's more expensive to engineer smooth proper steering.

[damnpablo]

Well the buggy is out of the shop (only $70 later even though he spent a lot of time going over it, he only chaged an hr labor.) and running much better. The mech diassembled, cleaned, and dry lubed both clutches. He also made adjustments to the brake system. It still has some chatter at take off and always jerks and barks the tires once before it gets a grip and starts going. This happens on easy take offs as well as wot take offs. Brakes work ok now too. Im hopefully going to let my daughter take it out after work today to get her opinion. If she isnt comfortable on it, you may see it in the classifieds.

[damnpablo]

Did the buggy run with my daughter and she liked it a little more than before. In the small grass field across the street there isnt really room to stay wot for more than a few seconds. She was pedaling the gas the whole time and this was causing a lot of jerking out of the clutch and or belt. After about 15 minutes of this, the cart wouldnt go forward anymore. I looked at the belt and it had cogs missing and severe tears on the outer edge. One spot even has the clutch bell shape sanded in to it. Pushed it home and I will take pics on the wifes phone to post. Obviously i am ordering a new belt, but i would like to just fix the cause rather than the sympom. Any Ideas?

[metalstudman1]

The damage discribed is clutch and driven out of alignment-Post pics from several angles of the CVT. Sorry that your $70 bucks was only worth a few minutes of fun.

[damnpablo]

I have taken pics but have not dumped them from camera yet. i will try to do that tonight. You are right that when I stand behind the cart I can see that the alighnment is slightly off, but just a little bit though. I probably didn't come exactly straght forward when i moved the motor mounts. I must have skewed the slots a bit to the driver side as i cut forward. I dont know how close it has to be but it is obviously far enough off to cause probs. I have the new 5959 manco belt coming. It is the original designed belt for my machine, so maybe I will get lucky just go back to the original mounting location. --- This just in. I just started to tear into it to re-align everything before the belt arrives, and just for fun i decided to re-measure the belt that came with it again. took the old belt off and measured it twice (in the daylight and with no beer). The o.c. is now 29 3/8"! Not the 27 3/8" that i measured before (go figure). Seems the D.A. that owned it before simply put the wrong belt on it! I cant belive i went through the trouble of moving the motor forward for the wrong belt. This means that maybe I did get lucky, and just go back to the original mounting location. No more misalighnment probs. I dont feel bad about having it in the shop because it still needed brakes tightened, and clutches cleaned and lubed. I feel like a total boob for not measuring the belt that was on it two or three times in the daylight and not aggravated or drinking.... I will keep you posted

[metalstudman1]

The alignment is very important for the belt to hook-up properly. Even with the motor going back to it's original position you still need to have the engine side of the pulleys aligned- verify the engine doesn't get cock-eyed when tightening it down. See if this makes sense- if mis-aligned the belt doesn't touch the sides of the pulley squarely-- miss and skip to grab, then the more rpm's the greater the reflex wobble you get till the belt over heats and shreds.Good luck.

[damnpablo]

Thank you for all of your help. Got the correct belt in today so I took the motor and the fabricated motor mount off and put it back all back to the original position. Put belt on, carefully tightned the mounts and made sure it was all lined up close as i could get it. Took it for a spin and wow what a difference. After my test drive, I did end up moving the driven green spring back to hole #1 because it wasn't really opening up to allow top speed unless i was heading downhill. This seems to help let it open up easier and get to top speed quicker. My daughter now loves her buggy. in fact she ran it till it ran out of gas today smiling all the way, and no visible or audible problems detected. Thanks again.
Paul

[metalstudman1]

That's All Good news!