Manco Silver Fox, need new sprocket

[Yamsaab]

Well after a few years of sitting idle its time to get the old silver fox out and ready to run. It could use a new sprocket. It has a style sprocket similar to those found on quads. Does anyone know where I can get one?
I know manco doesn't exist anymore so who supplies the parts for the carts now?

Thanks in advance.

[T3beatz]

Do you know how many teeth are3 on the sprocket you have and what size the chain is? I think that type of go kart takes a 41 chain, I owned a Manco intruder (which I think is the same as the silver fox, or the magnum express).

[Yamsaab]

It's a 60t sprocket that uses 420 chain. I found the replacement part online along with the the other sprocket that is driven from the torque inverter. It just took some searching but I did find a supplier that carries most manco parts. I just think 22 dollars for the smaller sprocket is ridiculous. If there is an aftermarket way to go I'd be open to it. The smaller sprocket is a 9t

[robertnoble]

I have a whole manco silver fox parts kart. Cart only had about 10 hrs on it. I have The whole rear assembly with a awesome running subura robin 6hp, all attached to the swing arm as it was from the factory, along with all brand new tires on the stock rims, front shocks, the bolt on roll bar...etc. I am looking to unload all of it. I live in michigan...

[Yamsaab]

I'm in pa so that's too far. I'd want new parts for this anyways. What do you guys use to lube the torque converter? I don't want to spend 30 bucks on the comet fairy dust+unicorn poop over priced lubricant.

[metalstudman1]

PB blaster dry lube- found at Lowes and many auto parts

[T3beatz]

Is this buggy for you are your kid? If for you, I'd sell the hole thing and get something a little better, something with a gy6 150 engine. If it's for the kids then never mind...

Just my opinion.

T.J.

[Yamsaab]

Thanks for the lube info. It was for me when I was 13 but I'm 20 now and haven't really touched it since I got a dirtbike 5 or so years ago. It's probably going to get sold and not replaced. Go karts and buggies are not really my thing. Where I ride now rzrs and built side x sides have problems negotiating the trails so this would not have a chance nore would any other sub 20 grand buggy.

I might take it to my riding area and avoid some of the tight rocky trails. Are there any engine swap threads on this cart?

[Yamsaab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igkI_...d2AUAAAAAAACAA

Well the more I think about it. It might be fun to take this thing up for a day or as a spare vehicle at least. I could take it down the coal hills because I know this thing will not make it up. The video is of my friends and I about 3 min. in shows the huge coal hills. It's pretty much the equivalent of sand dunes here in PA. This is just one area were we ride. There are fire roads and single track stuff around too. What are some advantages of switching to something like a spyderbox compared to dropping in a different engine. I was thinking a 3 wheeler or old 4t atv engine would be great. The only real advantage I see with the different buggy is dual a-arm front suspension. This already has a good set of large atv style tires on the back and I'll probably pick up some ITP holeshots for the front.

I fit in the buggy fine and everything since I'm only 5'10". I haven't really grown much since I got the thing. It doesn't really seem to be any different in size to 150cc buggies.

[T3beatz]

You can do an engine swap but you will have to beef up the front end on the go kart. Unless you have good fab skills and like to do that type of stuff I it's just simpler to sell it and buy a 150 that is fairly strong from the beginning. I sold my Manco Intruder for $400.00 and bought a crossfire 150 for $500.00, the crossfire 150 was 3 times better! And if it has the right mods it would have little problem traversing the terrain you guys were riding on in the video, your not going to be able to get through some of the places that a bike can, or climb a few of the hills, but you would still have lots more fun with it than the manco.

My friend bought an Intruder II for about $1800 dollars, he says all the time if he knew then what he knows now he would have never made that purchase. There are just so many other GY6 150 based buggies that are better.

T.J.

[Yamsaab]

Yeah I forget how much mine cost new. It was a nice Christmas present for my brother and I to share. Now it just sits in the garage since he broke it when I started college and I just never felt like fixing the thing since I mainly ride my dirt bike. That's how it always was, my brother broke it and I would fix it. It taught me a lot but upsets me a little that he never fixed it. He is only 3 yrs younger than me so it's not like he's to young to learn, just too lazy. The low price is part of the reason why I don't know if I want to sell it. There seem to be a lot of idiots on Craigslist asking(probably not selling though) a lot of money for go karts and buggies. There are a few reasonably priced ones that I've seen that are similar to mine. Not too many modern 150 or 250 sized buggies under a grand that I've stumbled across. I'm not a pro fabricator by any means but I have helped a friend mount up an old dirtbike engine into a old manco cart.

Yeah the intruder II is a step up from mine since it has dual a-arms but pretty much the same otherwise. I'm in college right now so I don't want to be spending too much money. If I could get a nice go cart for 2-300$ more than what the Manco would sell for I would probably do that.

The buggy would be nice to run around that area and some of the tame trails. It's amazing at that place, probably well over 150 miles of trails to ride.

[T3beatz]

you should be able to find a nice 150cc buggy for around 600-800 bucks, at that price it should be running and able to drive. Put another 100 bucks in upgrades in it and you should be able to hit some trails with no problems.

In that price range they may be 5 or 6 years old, but for the most part they still run good and don't have a ton of time on the engines.

[Yamsaab]

Well that's something I will consider. For now I just want to get this running and take it for a little test drive on the trails to see if I even want to pursue having a decent buggy to take to the trails. It's been so long since I've drove go karts/buggies and have never taken one to the trails, only around fields and the small woodlot around the house. The width and turning radius on buggies is what I'm going to need to get used to and adjust for. I can't fit in between trees 30" apart anymore haha and won't be able to whip the back end around to turn on a dime like a bike when I find a dead end.

I have yet to see another mini buggy or go kart at the trails. Only the occasional sand rail that usually hangs around the coal hills. I don't know if that means people have tried and failed or no one has interest in trying.

[T3beatz]

yeah, I road the S#!t out of mine when I had it, I just hated having to deal with changing belts all the time, and the small wheels that came with it stock, and the lack of Rack n pinion steering.

[Yamsaab]

The lack of Rack and pinion steering is what I dislike most about it. I've never really had problems with belts unless it was ran in somewhat deep snow while towing someone, then it ate them like I eat oreos. The small wheels will have to do for now.

[metalstudman1]

Welcome- Those hills are beautiful and NEEDS a mini buggy wearing them out!!! Be the first to show you friends what they're missing out on. You can drive a buggy twice as long as you ride a motorcycle!!! Get your Siverfox going -take it out and then sell it for something that will take the beating. Crossfire,Dune150 or Punisher would be a perfect buggy for those trails (of course I think an engine transplant would really make it fun) I rode dirt bikes (exactly the same as the ones you video-ed!!!) and I won't go back since I've been in a buggy. Post some of your Silverfox

[x-bird]

a trip to treverton's on my list for this coming fall, my dad grew up not far from there and i have a lot of relatives in the area. (shamokin) buggies never really caught on in this part of the NE too much. Bikes, quads and right into jeeps, trucks & VW rails for the adults. BTW, where's my manners! welcome aboard ...

[Yamsaab]

x-bird-
What are you going to be taking there? Yep there are tons of quads and jeeps out on the trails and the few sand rails that run around. Thanks for the welcome.

Metalstudman1-
That's what my friends and I were thinking. A day of riding wipes us out pretty well. If we did two days back to back I'm not sure if I could handle riding a bike the second day. Sitting my lazy self in a mini buggy would be really nice. I don't think I'll ever give up dirtbikes but I could definitely find some fun going down the trails in a mini buggy. I'm 200 miles away from home and at college right now but I'll get some pictures of it then.

And as far as climbing those hills.... sometimes the sand rails with paddle tires have problems getting up them. So I don't think I would be conquering too many hills with a buggy but I can at least go down the hills with it. Which I'm too scared to do with my bike right now. I'm new to this riding area as of a month ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeCh4L6ebO8

The videos really do these hills no justice, they are so much steeper and bigger in person.

[metalstudman1]

I totally understand how video doesn't give you the radical angle of hills!!!Those are serious hills. I said I'd never give up dirt bikes too(after 30 yrs. of riding)- Now I could care a less about them. I still ride motorcycles on the street, but the level of stability in a buggy changes your risk assessment and the fun factor changes from partial fear to comfortable adrenaline! There's something about knowing you have metal protecting your body parts that changes your outlook.

[T3beatz]

I agree with ya MSM, I've owned a street bike (a 600) it was fun for a while but after seeing a friend of mine get his leg severed pretty badly (almost amputated) I gave it up. I was in the military then and It there were a ton of hoops you would have to jump through just to ride so I felt it wasn't worth it. Buggies give you the added protection, minimizing certain injuries and combined with proper PPE you can ride hard and do crazy stuff and have tons of fun.

I'm not saying give up on bikes, two hobbies can be better than one.

[Yamsaab]

The reduction of perceived risk is why I don't like quads. I feel too comfortable on them and start doing things that are above my skill level pretty quickly. I'm not like this so much on two wheels though. At least I'll have a cage around me when I do push the limits with a mini buggy and I won't have a 500lb quad laying on top of me. Two hobbies is always better than 1 that's why I probably have close a dozen of them at a given time.

[x-bird]

It'd be my 150 cc buggy--if i ever get it finished. I wrecked my best friend's brand new 350 warrior pretty hard when i was a teen, (he was big--i was a scrawny speed junkie, good recipe for a disaster) followed by another intersection of me and a semi-immovable object on a motorcycle. At that point i decided to stick with what i did best, bmx and mtn biking --- i was just too crazy to park my butt on an engine and survive for long.

[Yamsaab]

Well if you ever do make the trip let me know if you need a guided tour or something. You can get lost up there somewhat easily.

So i'm really thinking about buying an old snow mobile engine to drop into this thing. I have a connection to an old 340 yamahadog that needs a track. I think it would be perfect. I'd have the clutch and jack shaft assembly. I think I could probably fab up a new rear section or at least alter the one that it has so it will fit okay since we did something like this before with a motorcycle engine. How much money would it take to drop in a new engine without other upgrades such as bigger front tires and rims. 500$? or more than that.
I see MSM put a 440 into a kart thing and it cost him over 700 dollars.

[metalstudman1]

The only thing I see that would be an issue with just using the snowmobile parts is NO reverse,unless that engine configuration came with it. You really need reverse for those type of hills. The money I had in my 440 Frankenbuggy included the kart & fresh engine purchase ($400) Then I had to spend $$'s on NOS electrical stuff to get it running right. I'm an EL CHEAPO builder too!! Since your kart is complete (basically free!!!) then your cost would be for the snowmobile and a couple of hundred dollars in mod's/fabricating. I still think you should get the kart running as is and sell it- buy something else better suited for the bigger engine mod.,you could drive it with the stock 150cc to get a feel for how much power you'll need to navigate those hills/trails without struggling. You'll end up spending alot of time and money trying to get the front suspension strong enough and correct geometry on the Siverfox & then a completely new swingarm too. If you bought another used full size buggy then the frontend would probably be strong enough in stock form (other than a Spiderbox). All your money would be on the swingarm end instead of on the whole buggy. The little things that everyone wants to have - bigger tires, better shocks, better seating and rack-n-pinion can't be bought for your Silverfox for less than buying a used full size buggy that comes with these items already. Just food for thought!!!

[Yamsaab]

Yeah I'm just throwing around ideas in my mind right now. Regardless my first step would be just taking it in it's stock form up there to see if I'm interested in pursuing having a buggy to run up there. All those little things would definitely add up both in time modifying it and price. I dislike the seats and would prefer two bucket style seats so I wouldn't be shifting around as much.
I just saw a honda fl with a snowmobile engine on craigslist but it's already gone the 300 dollar price probably meant it was thoroughly trashed though.

What kind of HP do you expect to get out of an uncorked/lightly modified 150cc engine? 12-13hp? I see there are filter/cdi/coil kits for not really all that much.
Thank you for all your help and information.

[metalstudman1]

10hp is realistic- With the CVT mod's on a GY6(lighter rollers,heavier springs) will get you up the hills along with an axle sprocket change-but your topend suffers. For me there's no comparison to a transmission for low end torque and higher top speeds- thus my engine changes to Honda TRX200SX (semi-automatic). No doubt a 2-stroke will give you the power needed to get up the hills by simply having an abundant amount of wheel speed and a light weight power plant. If the snowmobile option is on your mind- find a Polaris transmission instead of the sled gearbox to get you reverse.
Warning!!!! if you get a buggy that will handle those hills - you'll leave the bike on the trailer!!!!!

[Yamsaab]

A semi auto trans would be sweet since it would give me low speed power and some top end speed. I don't really need to go that fast. We rarely break 40mph on our bikes. I like my two strokes, that's the only reason why the snowmobile option is in my mind. I like the sound, smell, and characteristic of their power.

If I built a buggy that was capable of getting up the hills I'd probably have to sell my bike to fund it anyways haha.

I'm not sure if buggies are especially uncommon here, or if this is how it is most places. But when I check the criagslist ads within a 50 mile radius of me. There are a total of like 2 mini buggies for sale. There are a decent amount of junky old go karts that are okay for a flat yard or pavement, but few buggies. I know in the past week or so the motorcycle ads have increased because of the nice weather. Are buggy sales similar to motorcycle/dirtbike sales, lots of people selling in the spring for decent money but when fall and winter comes there are few sellers and fewer buyers for lower money.

[T3beatz]

make sure you search under different terms... go kart, go cart, buggy, dune buggy, 150cc buggy, 250cc buggy, etc... each one pulls up different stuff.

use this to search, http://www.searchtempest.com/

T.J.

[Yamsaab]

I did do multiple searches with those keywords. I think I found more sandrails than mini buggies

[T3beatz]

yeah, I do too... it just takes time, the good ones pop up when you least expect it.

[metalstudman1]

I haven't seen a huge increase of buggy sales except right before X-mas. You just have to keep searching and wait for the right one!!!! Good luck & we're here when you need us!

[Yamsaab]

Thanks you guys have been very helpful and kind so far. I'm looking around and actually found a smaller sprocket for the jackshaft. The stock gearing is 9t/60t, I don't think I could find a bigger axle sprocket and even if I did it probably wouldn't fit very well since the current one is about level with the bottom of the back frame. The one I found is an 8t. Would that be a bad idea? I know with dirtbike sprockets usually a sprocket that small stretches the chain faster. I would probably get some 420 chain instead of the 41 roller chain that's common on go carts of this size, mainly because of it's increased strength.

Or could I just get #40 roller chain which is the same except a little wider and is just as strong as the 420 chain. I see a lot of sprockets are labeled as 40/41 pitch. The #40 would probably be significantly cheaper. I think I can get 10ft of it for like 12 bucks.

I think the go kart is plenty fast as it was and probably too fast for most of the trails. The power to be able to climb the hills and pull two adults around is more important than the top speed that's going to suffer from this.

I did some calculating and figure this will probably knock 3-4mph off the top end. If I really wanted it back I could just remove the governor and just be cautious to not run the engine for at full speed down a paved road for half an hour. Too bad it's not a honda clone engine.

[metalstudman1]

You can use the #40

[Yamsaab]

Well I took the torque converter apart and cleaned it well. Before it was put into hibernation the torque converter didn't engage until somewhat high rpms compared to when it was new. I'm looking at where the shoes are seated on the shaft portion of a plate and the shaft is grooved, should this be replaced? The hub driver is in good shape and moves through the plates easily. Could the grooving be the cause of the high rpm engaging.

[metalstudman1]

Is the grooves on the crankshaft?

[SYCARMS]

Parts for your buggy should be available through ASW which bought out Manco and Bristers. I give a 20% discount to buggymaster members on ASW parts.

[Yamsaab]

http://www.mfgsupply.com/gomini/gomi...riveparts.html

If you go to this link it is part number 8. This attaches to the crankshaft but its not the crank shaft that's grooved its the shaft/sleeve where the clutch pack sits.

[metalstudman1]

Can you post a pic?- need to see how bad it's grooved.

[Yamsaab]

Here's a pic of the cart.

I'm 200 miles away from it right now. If it was my brake rotor it would definitely be getting resurfaced but probably still salvageable. Probably like 2mm or so.

It's pretty amazing how little it took to get the engine running again. Drained the nasty old turpentine smelling gas from the tank and carb, filled it up with fresh gas and in two pulls it was running.

[SYCARMS]

I should be able to locate the part you need however ASW does not go by name but by Model number on the old pre ASW karts. The Mdl.# should be somewhere on the floor on a tag. I was told they have most of the parts for the older models pre ASW.

[Yamsaab]

Getting parts isn't a problem I already have the new sprockets. The torque converter is a comet 30 series so parts are easy to get from mfg supply or something like that. Thanks though.