Hill Climbing with 150cc Buggies

[Tosser]

Hi everyone. I have a large property with about 2 miles of trails on it. I have a Kawasaki Brute Force 750i but am interested in getting a couple 150 cc buggies for my younger family members to ride (and for adults too) I would like to turn the trails into an off road riding course for the kids and adults. There will be lots of ups and downs and sharp turns but no flat straight aways longer than 150 yards or so.

The land has quite a few hills and some of them are pretty steep. I am interested in buggies that have good low end torque for acceleration and hill climbing. Because younger kids will be riding I don't want to get anything too fast. It seems a 150cc would be a good compromise with a softer ride (full suspension) and some hill-climbing ability without being too fast or too dangerous.

Here is my question: In the 150cc class are there any buggies that are geared more for climbing and acceleration out of turns than top speed? If so, which ones? Thanks

[Tosser]

Here is an idea of what the trails look like. These are just pictures I happen to have so I don't have any pics of the steep stuff.







To give you an idea of steepness, there is a trail that cuts left in the pic below that you can't see but it goes left, directly up the hill pictured.




(sorry if this offends non-hunters):

[lonniehall72@yahoo.com]

We have alot of the same ride trails and our kids run a
fox carbide 150 that is pretty much stock. It goes through
our trails fine as long as it gets breaks flatter runs after
climbs. Our hardest climb is first and back down last we
made our trails for the buggy so I made climbs then flats
for cool downs then weaving through trees and creeks .
The thing that gets my son is the sand pit our friend hauls
out of he won't slow down or give it breaks to cool and
takes out a belt from heat. It's great family time for us
and I'm getting a Carter 150 later in the week for my daughter
I personally say buy something with four or five point seat
belts. My son and I ride more than my wife and daughter
cause we like to open them up more and we found out hand
restaints are a big plus cause they save arms yes it's one
time one accident but safety first get the right safety gear
before you go sorry to get on a soap box but a split second
is all it takes. Hope you all have as much fun as we do and
post pics vids and all the laughs.

Check with Tom at sycpowersports he's been very helpful
and we have gotten great service for all our needs .

And these great friends on buggymasters will help with all
they can to thanks guys if I haven't said that before

[metalstudman1]

Nice area- looks like our trails in NC with about the same size hills!!(nice deer) Most buggies will handle what you have pictures of- It's the longer steep hills where the stock 150 will struggle.
Are you buying new or used? (you'll need reverse!!!!)

[x-bird]

Looks like gorgeous and fun riding ... if you get frost in your area, make sure you get some aggressive rear treads. On steep stuff, turf style tires like to slick off the top 1/2 inch of melting frosted ground and sit and spin on the frozen layer.

[Tosser]

Thanks guys.

MetalStud: I am looking to buy used. I don't have the spare money to spend $4k = on them right now. Plus my wife already thinks I'm crazy. She's a city girl that doesn't see the point of tractors, atvs, go karts, etc. In fact, she doesn't see the point in buying the land and would prefer that I sold it.

I am no mechanic but I don't mind doing some tinkering. My brother has a lot of tools (including a welder) and is pretty good at mechanical repairs. I figure I could get 2 used buggies for $1000 to $1,500 ($500 to $750 each) and do repairs as neccessary. I have seen some machines on craigslist that are prices around there.

One other question. I notice some ads for used Karts that are 6.5 hp lawnmower-type engines and the seller calls them 169cc. Then I higher priced vehicle is a 150cc. I am assuming the 150cc has a smaller displacement but is a motor cycle engine so it runs at higher rpms and, therefore, generates more horsepower. Is that correct? Is there a significant performance difference between a 6.5 or 7 hp motor and a 150cc motor?

[GX150]

A GX150 series Yerf-Dog has the best climbing ability out of the box because of its light weight, large valve head, 13/40 final gear set and 13t engine drive sprocket. To make it a monster add the following:

22" tires on all four corners for clearance w/ 39t axle sprocket to compensate for those taller tires
Fresh air intake, performance exhaust, A12 torque cam and carburetor rejet to make the engine flow better
12g variator slider weights with the red main torque spring to keep the RPMs in peak range

If you have deeper pockets, there are ported heads, big bores and stroker cranks available...

Hills will not be problem no mater how long as long as you can keep traction.

[SYCARMS]

The 6.5 engines are low rpm torque motors, you will be better off with the 150cc GY6. Just even used try to stick with a known brand. Beware of the Carter buggies since parts especially the newer models are difficult to get. Some Carter new models has the taiwanese sym engine which is a GY6 type but parts are nearly impossible to get for that engine since Carter went out of business, and the sym scooter motors are different than what Carter used in their buggies.Older Carter 2007 & below, American Sport Works, Kinroad,Hammerhead and some Roketas are good buggies to get. You can post what you find with some pics if available and someone on here will let you know if it is good or not.

TOM

[T3beatz]

those trails look very good, I have about 3/4's of a mile cut out in the woods behind my house, there is a lot more land, but I have been to busy riding/fixing and not cutting. Plus it's been a little cold and wet here so I have to finish.

I own a Spiderbox also (aka gx150), I have it running pretty good, and I just switched to the 39T sprocket yesterday and climbing hills is even easier. There is one big hill in my trails and before any mods I would have to hit full throttle... Now I'm at half throttle and less and it climbs right up with no problems, when I mash the gas in the middle of the hill it picks up speed.

I'm sure you'll have no problem finding a buggy that will suit your needs, there are tons on craigslist for sale, and like most of the guys posted already, with simple mods you should be able to tackle your terrain with no problems.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by T3beatz

those trails look very good, I have about 3/4's of a mile cut out in the woods behind my house, there is a lot more land, but I have been to busy riding/fixing and not cutting. Plus it's been a little cold and wet here so I have to finish.

I own a Spiderbox also (aka gx150), I have it running pretty good, and I just switched to the 39T sprocket yesterday and climbing hills is even easier. There is one big hill in my trails and before any mods I would have to hit full throttle... Now I'm at half throttle and less and it climbs right up with no problems, when I mash the gas in the middle of the hill it picks up speed.

I'm sure you'll have no problem finding a buggy that will suit your needs, there are tons on craigslist for sale, and like most of the guys posted already, with simple mods you should be able to tackle your terrain with no problems.

What's your top speed with the 39T sprocket?

And what size rollers are you using in the variator?

[T3beatz]

Xlint89, these are the upgrades that I have so far...

Orange CDI, Red coil, iridium spark plug, Uni Type air intake, 125 main Jet, 38 pilot jet, 10g Rollers, 1500rpm (yellow) clutch springs, and 1500rpm Contra spring, reverse with 16T sprocket, 39T main sprocket, 22" rear tires, and stock Howhit internal gearing.

With the 10g rollers and 1500 contra spring, I can tell I lost a few MPH on the top end adding the 39T sprocket took it down a little more. At full speed I'm running about 25-30mph on pavement, but I have a S#!T load of power and it gets to speed fast.

I plan on moving to 12g sliders after I finish my Heim joint mod and start painting (I'll have the engine out the buggy). I'm hearing the 12g sliders will give me the lower gearing of the 10gram rollers, but the high gearing of a 13 gram set, we shall see.

I think I need to go up a little on the main jet because I'm getting a little popping when I'm hitting full speed.

Most of my upgrades were purchased through ebay, very good pricing there, just make sure it's a reputable dealer.

[xlint89]

Thanks T3. See my post of upgrades? Very similar to yours.

http://buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2670

Looks like yours except for the reverse....

[T3beatz]

Yep, depending one where you ride the 39T sprocket can help... if you ride mostly on flat hard land then the stock 13T/31T should be fine. But If you ride more on hilly terrain that's were the 39T will shine.

Yeah, the reverse is cool, I love it, even though the yerf is light and easy to hop out and push it out of trouble the reverse just makes it so much easier.

I know a place on ebay that you can get the set, minus the shaft and the break cable for $95.00 + $15 shipping.

[xlint89]

I'm not familiar with reverse set ups. So I have no idea what else I would need, or how to install it.

That's why I think the BD kit would be MY best option.

[SYCARMS]

The BD kit will have everything you will need and I believe even instructions.

TOM

[T3beatz]

Originally Posted by xlint89

I'm not familiar with reverse set ups. So I have no idea what else I would need, or how to install it.

That's why I think the BD kit would be MY best option.

yeah, The BD kit will be good for you then, but buying everything buy itself can save you $150.00, but you will have no true support.

I had no knowledge when I first installed mine, but it is very simple to install.

I took mine off of my spare engine so I had re-installed it in reverse order. the hardest part (or should I say most time consuming was swapping the output shaft), that took about 1 1/2 hours. the rest was simple drill, bolt on and adjust type of stuff.

all you need is the gearbox, the cable, the shift handle, and the output shaft.

It's all self explanitory, change the shaft out, empty the gear oil, 4 bolts behind the Clutch to remove the gears (don't rip the gasket, just like the cvt case), swap the output shaft, put it back together like you took it apart.

next slide the gearbox on the shaft (space as needed, for the most part it should line up, if not use spacers, it should come with one and the engine has one one it), tighten nut on shaft. I used a nylon lock nut one that is short (stock spindle nut).

attaching the cable to the gearbox is easy, unscrew the bell and slide the 1/4 ball in the hole, put bell back on.

attach the shift handle to the buggy, preferably in a spot you can reach with your seatbelt on, you can weld a tab to secure it to are you can use clamps. The cable then slides in the shifter and you can adjust the tension from either side.

That's it, other than the chain will have to be adjusted... you shouldn't need any links, only if you go to a 39T sprocket.

[GX150]

Depending on the reverse assembly you use, the spacing may be off on the axle. If this is the case you will need to put spacers on the axle sprocket for proper alignment.

[T3beatz]

Oh, Yeah that too, mine was off by about 1/8", spaced it and it's good to go, I bought some longer bolts with new lock nuts for it also.

Or you could just cut down one of the spacers between the engine and the gearbox...

[xlint89]

Sounds easy enough, but some pics would be nice.

Kinda wish someone did a tutorial. Maybe I'll look over the BD install instructions and see if i can follow along.

I'm all about saving $150, but lately I've been learning the hard way about trying to save a few bucks. Usually costs me more in the long run because something doesn't match up right.

[T3beatz]

Do what ya got to do, but just in case you change your mind here are a couple links to what you may need.

reverse gearbox, anti rotation bracket and shifter...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160685045018...ht_3137wt_1163

Two different cable sizes...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reverse-Gear...#ht_967wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/78-Reverse-C...ht_3102wt_1163

Shaft...
this one does not have the length... it has to be about 8"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150cc-GY6-DR...#ht_991wt_1163

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Outer-Shaft-...ht_4024wt_1163

That's pretty much it... I think I should post this somewhere else because we have hi-jacked this thread

[persistent]

what would you say climbs better a modified spiderbox or a roketa 250?

[T3beatz]

I don't know, I bet just like GX150 said it depends on if you can keep traction, the power will be there for both of them, it will come down to which one has the better tires and better driver!

[SYCARMS]

Where are you located, what kind of hills are you wanting to climb. Either one can be modded to climb what I call normal hills. Parts of Kentucky or Tennessee for example are not considdered normal since they are steep at times. If your refering to general hill climbs both will do the job if modded properly. The Yerf is in my opinion the lightest weight to HP ratio out there. The Roketa will depend on the Model. Both the GY6 and the CN/CF-250 were designed for scooters which are much lighter then the buggy. In all buggy owners manuals they advertise the buggies to climb anywhere from a 15 deg. to 25deg. hill. They will do better when modded. The 250 is roughly twice the HP as the 150 but the 150 has more low end torque then the 250. An example is the early Kinroad 150cc 2seater and the 250 2 seater. Both buggies are identicle with the 250 weighing slightly more due to the bigger engine and carrier. The 150 will outclimb the 250 in its stock form due to the less weight and low end torque. So it all comes down to what I asked earlier in the post. Also as T3beatz mentioned earlier traction plays a part since if you can't keep the rear wheels planted firmly you will lack traction. Give us some more info and we'll be able to give a more definitive answer.