Drive/torque pully mod for more belt travel

[SLESTAK75]

I saw this video: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...41248874,d.dmQ

After watching I was intrigued. I have not seen a belt travel all the way to the top a variator yet, which seems to defeat the purpose of a larger variator. The rear pulley only opens so far and when it reaches this point the belt can not travel any further. It seems reasonable that if the pulley opens further this allows full motion of the belt and highest possible performance. I also saw these on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/GY6-125-150c...c7dcb9&vxp=mtr

I don't know if these allow the pulley to open further or just change the power curve. There is not alot of info on these. This seems like a great upgrade to get all you can out of your gy6. But I was wondering if there is some sort of way to modify your stock pulley to get the same results. Any thoughts??

[toomanytoys2]

I read somewhere that you van chuck the variator in the lathe and take about .020" off of the collar. This will alow the variator to come closer together and raise the belt up higher. Wish I new where I saw it so I could link it to you.

[jmansracerocket]

I just received that pulley its a nice looking piece haven't installed it yet since its be so dam cold here once I install it il give my rating and performance review.

[SLESTAK75]

I'll be looking forward to that jman. @toomany the advantage to the pulley that I can see is not only does it allow the belt to travel to the top of the variator without machining but because it opens wider it allows the belt to get further into the rear pulley as well. This would make an even greater difference to the top end. Just how much we will have to wait and see. The website claims 4-7mph. That's quite a bit especially if you get that 7mph. Jman did you get the whole pulley or the half from ebay? And please if you can get some good before and after speeds when you test.

[SLESTAK75]

I actually just got to test mine out with the new 11g sliders (replaced rollers) and with the sliders I saw my belt hit the top of my (stock) variator. Still don't think it would pull to the top of a 115mm variator but it made me happy. Those sliders along with the a12 cam made a very noticeable difference in takeoff and added nearly 5mph to top speed. Hitting around 42mph now. WOOOO HOOOOOO!!! That feels really fast on that buggy.

[jmansracerocket]

yes im going to do a lot of testing and record speed at certain marks. I bought the entire pulley from kidnme tom there was very helpful and nice guy.

[jmansracerocket]

im currently using 10 gram rollers right now and they where a nice upgrade from the stock 14.5 gramm rollers I might try 11 gram sliders also down the road but for now I have quite a bit of stuff to install lol.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by toomanytoys2

I read somewhere that you van chuck the variator in the lathe and take about .020" off of the collar. This will alow the variator to come closer together and raise the belt up higher. Wish I new where I saw it so I could link it to you.

Actually, the trick I read was to shave 20 thou off the boss pin that the variator rides on. That will keep the belt higher on the vari.

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

yes im going to do a lot of testing and record speed at certain marks. I bought the entire pulley from kidnme tom there was very helpful and nice guy.

Did you get the longer drive belt to go with the KNM performance pulley?

I've been very interested in this mod and am looking for all the real world opinions I can find about it.

I too will be waiting to hear your results with it.

Please get a top speed before and after the install. Thanks

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

im currently using 10 gram rollers right now and they where a nice upgrade from the stock 14.5 gramm rollers I might try 11 gram sliders also down the road but for now I have quite a bit of stuff to install lol.

If you like the way the 10g's perform you could stay with 10g. It's just the switch to sliders that's worth the effort. I had heavier rollers and still didn't get the belt to the top of the pulley, but those lighter sliders took it right on up there. My rpm's are higher across the board and my top speed increased. I think a larger variator and this pulley would make your CVT all it can be. So does anyone have any ideas on modding stock drive pulley to work like the one from kidnme?? If not I may some day throw down that money and get me one.Maybe if Uncle Sam feels generous this year.

[jmansracerocket]

did not go with the longer belt as it doesn't require it, I also got another goodie from him to I have to try out like I said its just so cold here in ny long island I hate the cold

[jmansracerocket]

slestak75 what buggy do u have??

[SLESTAK75]

It goes by many names. (tumbleweeds roll by followed by a gust of air) Spyder 160 or Kandy 150xsr, mine is the MXR TrailBender 160r.http://www.killermotorsports.com/MRX...d-150gka-2.htm
I put some pics up on the board. Its heavier than most and rides really nice.

[jmansracerocket]

nice gotcha

[jmansracerocket]

dam the front end of that thing must be like 5 feet wide ?

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

did not go with the longer belt as it doesn't require it, (

REALLY curious to see your results now....

[SLESTAK75]

Jman. The front end is close to 5 ft wide. Makes it hard to transport. Won't fit on most trailers or truck beds. Need a car trailer. But it rides and handles really nice.

[jmansracerocket]

Yeah I want to try the new parts so bad but its 10 degress out over here :'(

[SLESTAK75]

Come on jman!! Suck it up!!! Get out there and tell us all how those parts work out!!! 10 degrees is still not 0 yet sheesh. I worked outside for more than 12 years and its definitely not easy to work in cold like that. You need a building to work in. Then gor the test ride you wrap the cab in clear plastic and put a heater in there.

[SLESTAK75]

I found this same motorio pulley on ebay for $84 and free shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170978450586...84.m1438.l2649

[jmansracerocket]

dam that's cheap

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

I found this same motorio pulley on ebay for $84 and free shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170978450586...84.m1438.l2649

Made by the same company, not sure if it's the same as KNM part though.

KNM doesn't mention the extra "race" groove, and claims the pulley opens up 3mm more. The Ebay one only says it increases top speed.

KNM is supposed to be the only seller of THAT pulley as it's supposed to be HIS design.

It does appear that they are selling his DR2 variator design too....

[SLESTAK75]

It does say exclusive but as you noted it seems that they have the variator too. I look at that "racing" groove on that pully and examine the angle that the guide will hit the end of the groove at and it seems to me as though it would open further. How about it Jman. Does your pulley have two groove choices like the one on ebay?? I can't see any other way for it to increase top speed aside from allowing the belt more travel. I could definitely be wrong. Won't be the first time and it shoooooooow won't be da last.

[xlint89]

I don't know if it's the groove that actually limits the pulley travel. I saw a Motorio Contra (large) spring that was shorter. It was supposed to allow the pulley to open up a bit more too.

And I do know that during some testing I was doing with the NCY ball bearing base, that I did have contra spring coil bind with certain springs.

[xlint89]

After further inspection, the "groove" does have limiting factors as well as the outer sheave.

What I did find was that the outer sheave would contact the clutch at about the same time (or in my case, slightly before) the groove would limit sheave travel outward.

So a shorter spring by itself would do nothing to open the sheave up more.

[SLESTAK75]

So X do you think it would be possible or even worthwhile to modify a stock pulley to do the same thing.

[SLESTAK75]

I look at the 2 different angles on that pulley I posted and the "race" groove gets to a point and drops straight down. I could see that allowing the pulley to spread a bit more. On my pulley there is a lip at the innermost point on the ramps and the belt couldnt go passed it if it wanted to, but I noticed that the KNM pulley doesnt have this lip. Can't tell On the Motorio but I'm willing to bet its not there. I think even if I could change the groove on mine to allow the pulley to open more the belt would still not go passed that lip. So Im thinking I may get that one on Ebay. Gotta wait on tax return, still waiting for w-2s. I will update when I can tell ya something.

[xlint89]

Personally I think the margin for error is too much. Should you mess it up, you're going to have to buy another anyways. So...... Might as well buy the "perfromance" pulley first.

BUT, I am waiting to hear back from Jman on his results.

I had spoke to a couple of others about the KNM pulley as it has always had my attention. And the response i got was they really didn't notice any difference. That is why I'm REALLY interested in hearing what Jman has to say about the pulley with the stock sized belt. If it truly does open up another 3mm, it would have to show an increase in top speed I would think.

On his site he shows it works best with his Kevlar 14mm longer belt (757) for maximum gain. One of the theories raised was the slightly longer belt MAY contribute to belt slippage. Fingers crossed.

[SLESTAK75]

After really looking into it I have to agree. If you had precision machining equipment (which I don't) It might be worth trying. But any inconsistency would definitely have a negative effect on performance. I read a review somewhere on the NCY version of this pully with the 2 grooves and the reviewer said that the race groove allowed the transmission to hold in the high gear when letting off of the throttle and also made the acceleration smoother but didn't notice any top end gain. So I agree xlint I think modding a stock pulley without access to a precision machine shop would be a bad idea. I would also love to hear from jman before making a decision.

[jmansracerocket]

If I can get some decent weather here I could test everything out

[SLESTAK75]

I hope you dont think i was complaining jman. Just thinking I prefer to hear feedback before taking the plunge. If I get a nice return I think I will go ahead and get the one from ebay and try it out.

[bear]

Suppose to be 65 here tomarrow and severe thunderstorms all day! and then right back down in the 20's by the weekend!!!

[jmansracerocket]

No its all good, just new york weather sucks right now and im cravingto work on the buggy

[bear]

Spring fever is definately hitting early this year!!! aaarrrgggh

[SLESTAK75]

Just emailed KidNMe and asked if his pulley was adjustable or not. I just find it hard to believe that a Taiwanese company would make a specific pulley for one small distributor and not sell it to any other distributors. I could be wrong but it seems HIGHLY unlikely to me. I (being cheap as I am) have almost convinced myself to invest in the NCY secondary sheave for $33 and try it out. I still may modify my stock one if it looks there is meat that could be removed from the stock grooves. If I screw it up I was looking at buying the other anyways. Too cold to work on it now though.

[ckau]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

I just find it hard to believe that a Taiwanese company would make a specific pulley for one small distributor and not sell it to any other distributors. I could be wrong but it seems HIGHLY unlikely to me.

Oh yea! Tom can swing a deal like that. I've known and rode with Tom @ Kidinme for several many years. We attended the first couple of national buggy bashes together. He has a tremendous passion for the sport, very competitive and always looking for a new edge. I've got one of his variators and plan to install it in my "first glimps" project.

[SLESTAK75]

He must be a very influential man.

[jmansracerocket]

ive talked to tom on the phone numerous times great guy and def big into the buggy world.

[bear]

He lives and breathes this stuff!!!

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

If I can get some decent weather here I could test everything out

Hey Jman, did you ever find the combination that you liked?

http://buggymasters.com/forum/showth...ht=bolt+engine


Thanks

[buggyMike34]

Watching this closely...awesome innovation guys. So tech...nice.
-34

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by xlint89

Hey Jman, did you ever find the combination that you liked?

http://buggymasters.com/forum/showth...ht=bolt+engine


Thanks

not yet still waiting on weather but I might be doing some welding work on it next week ill have to post pics, got a new gas tank to install and im going to reverse the rear shocks mounts to account for the longer rear shocks. once I get that stuff in im going to start with the cvt mods. But I will get some pics for you guys to show u everything.

[xlint89]

What gas tank are you installing? I've been on the hunt alot lately.

I can't stomach the $$ for a nice aluminum or SS tank ($160 or so)

And not sure if the Surplus Center tank would work for me either.

https://www.*************.com/item.a...783-R&catname=

[SLESTAK75]

Got my answer from KidNMe. These must be different and definitely only available from him. He says they are not adjustable. And they open further because the bearing is longer giving the pulley more room to open. So now I gotta decide if this is what I want.......Probably so.......still gonna see if stock is moddable........isn't everything??????

[SLESTAK75]

So I asked the guy on eBay if that Motorio opened further than stock and he said yes. So I'm going for that one and if it doesn't open further I will return it for not being as described. Just waiting on my deposit from Uncle Sam.

[buggyMike34]

Good look. Will be anxiously awaiting the results. I like the idea of the Motorio...
-34

[SLESTAK75]

Got my pulley off today and examined it closely. There is a bit of metal that could be removed from the groove. I'm not sure if it will hit the clutch bell if it opens up any further though. I'm sure it would open 3mm more though. Just a matter of finding the right tool to lengthen the groove without making it too big. If it is too wide the pin will have room to wiggle around and that wouldn't be good. There are 3 grooves that need to be cut so they would all have to be done exactly the same or the pulley could bind up or hang. Not sure if I want to try that or not.

[Johnny 5]

I put a shim in my variator to increase take off and top speed is the same.
The shim is from the old gy6 valve spring, it is .75mm and put the belt deeper in the variator to help take off power after going back to the 31t sprocket.

It is all about tuning to your riding terrain.

I am happy with the 31t rear sprocket, because now I can tune the variator to the type of riding we do. The 39t killed the top speed and was boring while cruising.

It is all give and take with a 10hp motor, but worth it.

[buggyMike34]

That is pretty innovative...can you post some pix of that mod please?
-34

[SLESTAK75]

I have seen other posts on this. If I am not mistaken a shim is place between the pin and the drive face. This causes the two ramps to be spread further apart on takeoff allowing the belt to be further into the front pulley lowering the gearing a bit. This should theoretically have a slight drain on top end speed as well. The mod to the rear pulley will increase top speed without affecting takeoff. Though if you did the two together you could in theory gain takeoff and top end speed. Hmmmmmm. New direction maybe.

[rebellinredneck]

Could somebody post pics or more detail of the shim mod, I'm very interested in this.

[SLESTAK75]

Please pardon the crudeness of my picture that I drew on paint with my mouse. But I think this is the idea.

[rebellinredneck]

Thanks slestack75 that helped me understand where the shim goes. I may give this a try. What torque spring do yall recommend?

[SLESTAK75]

I put the 1500rpm in mine and 11gram sliders and I like it so far. Much improved takeoff and still have my top speed. I still have the stock variator which will be changing soon.

[rebellinredneck]

I have 10 gram rollers with koso varriator and clutch but still have the stock torque spring. It overall is ok but would like a lol more takeoff and climbing. I appreciate the info.

[buggyMike34]

Crude, yet very effective. I do believe I understand now...thanks
-34

[xlint89]

Shims come standard with Dr Pulley variators.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwCw&dur=440

Edited for error correction.

[SLESTAK75]

Changing from stock to 1500rpm torque spring and 11gram rollers made a nice difference on mine. The stock spring on mine just allowed the shift to start happening almost immediately after takeoff and my takeoff was terrible. After putting the spring on it slowed the shift down a bit and helped the takeoff some. I had pretty heavy rollers and so I drilled the center out to lighten them and this only made a marginal difference, also my belt never went near the top of the variator. After I put the 11 gram sliders on I noticed that the rpm's were higher before the shift started and all the way through the shift. I also noticed my belt now went to the top of the variator. My takeoff and hill climbing is much better now.This all happened over the last couple of weeks. I will be getting the Koso variator soon and I am getting head work done for more power. I may need to tune the slider weight a bit with new variator. But I think sliders are the way to go. You may want to try this before adding shims. I was able to gain top end and bottom. I was told a while back that there is alot to be gained from a properly tuned CVT and I have to agree. There is a sweet spot where you get maximum RPM's through the shift without losing top speed. You adjust your weights to the contra spring and when you hit that sweet spot it makes a world of difference.

@buggyMike that 3000rmp spring seems a bit much. It seems like the 150 would have a hard time getting that rear pulley open all the way with such a stiff spring in it.

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by xlint89

Shims come standard with Dr Pulley variators.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwCw&dur=440

BUT....

The shims are to keep the variator halves closer together, thus pushing the belt higher on the pulley for more top speed.

Those aren't shims xlint............they're secret decoder rings. DUH
So then those shims go between the cam and the engine??

[xlint89]

WARNING: this is just my personal opinion!!!!

Honestly, I've tried the Dr. Pulley and the Koso varaiators and found very little if any gain from them. A teflon coated one MIGHT have a little benefit, but I think the only vari that might actually make a noticeable gain would be the DR2. I'd save your $ for that if you are looking for a performance variator. Now if your stock vari is damaged or worn and in need of an alternative, that's another story. If you're looking for a larger variator (115mm) over the stock 112mm, remember that you will also need a 115mm drive face. The Dr. P comes with that, but the Koso doesn't, so add the cost of another drive face to it if you want a true 115mm variator.

Personally, I like sliders myself. They work well in the stock variator. Those I feel are worth the $. I am running 12g sliders on mine and seem to work very well.

Sorry, I was incorrect. You are right.

Shims should be placed between the drive face and the pin boss as you show in yiour diagram to sit the belt lower as describe. I apologize for that.

Although you can go with the old trick of shaving .020" off the variator boss pin (large chrome pin) if you want to squeeze the halves closer together for more top speed.

[rebellinredneck]

So you recommend the 1500 over the 2000 spring. And sliders over rollers.

[Johnny 5]

On the red buggy with the dr2 from kid n me it came with the larger rollers and no fan pulley. I used a stock fan outer pulley and noticed the belt sat high on the variator.
After realising the valve spring shim is the same inside diameter as the crank shaft I put it between the pin and the variator on my work bench and measured it too make sure it wouldnt be too much. Make sure it dosnt over extend your variator on the three bushings
when both pulleys are at max travel. The shims I have are about .75/.80mm thick just under 1mm. I have ran this shim on our last two trips and it helped out on take off and at fast idle it dosnt try to drive away like before.

I just maesured the worn out Dr pulley fan that I just replaced on the wifes blue buggy verses a stock fan and the dr pulley has a raised up part about 1.05mm in the center that puts the pulleys further apart.

I also tried the shim with the Dr pulley fan and it was too much and the belt was not in contact with the pulleys just sitting on the pin.

If you have a performance variator it may not work if the fan has a raised center or longer pin.

Just make sure with the pulleys put together and the shim between the pin and variator you dont over extend the 3 guide bushings.

I like the dr2 because it has 20mm rollers and they havent flat spotted yet after three years, about 15 2 day trips to the desert. It came with 11/9 10/8 rollers I like it with the 9/8 combo and the belt still climbs all the way up the variator. Probally the 1500rpm torque spring is weak, but works reallly good so Im not going to change it.

Next mod the 43/13 internal gears with 31/16t.

[SLESTAK75]

@rebellin I noticed that mike said he had a 3000rpm spring and that seemed a bit much. I haven't tried a 2000rpm so I can't say, but I do like the performance of the 1500rpm in mine. I did see first hand in my CVT that the sliders pushed the belt to the top of my variator when the rollers would not. I would not go back.

@xlint I have a 115mm drive face and a 107mm variator so I'm looking for a 115mm variator. I also have a busted drive face so I need one anyways. At least then I would have 115mm on both sides. The trick to getting more from the 115 is getting that belt to travel all the way to the top at WOT. May only make a few mph difference but I'll bite. I do agree with the opinion on the DR2 but it will be some time before I have upgrade funds again and I can afford the Koso.

@johnny I like the idea of those 20mm rollers that don't get flat spots. I used a bit of graphite powder on my ramps in hopes that this would slow the flat spot development. Sounds to me like you have yours tuned just right and if it ain't broke..........

[SLESTAK75]

Just waiting on the Motorio to get here. I will take a lot of measurements and post what I find. Then after testing ill also post results. Only problem is I will be adding other mods as well. Uni + rejet, P&p and .025 mill on the head. Koso variator. CDI and ho coil. But the caliper measurements should reveal differences between motorio and stock.

[buggyMike34]

My fault...my red springs ARE the 2000rpm. Guess I had a case of the wishful thinking. Great thread BTW-very informative.
-34

[jmansracerocket]

man im dying to try out my pulley and clutch but got hit with a nasty 32inch snow storm here

[Johnny 5]

I know what you mean every mod we do we have to wait to go camping to test.

Part of the buggy fever.

[Johnny 5]

Going to weld the frame that cracked near the chain adjuster this weekend.

[SLESTAK75]

Alright. I ordered the motorio pulley from Ebay along with a lightweight drive face and the posted variator 115mm. It does in fact allow the belt to travel quite a bit further into the rear pulley and up the variator face. Just placing the belt in the opened pulley and grabbing it like a cup, the diameter went from around 4' to about 2 1/2. That's quite a difference. I only got in a short test run (no GPS) and it had better bottom end and I never got it wound all the way out and it was already faster than before. Granted I went from stock variator to 115mm and added this pulley also, but even if you already have a 115mm variator I do believe that as advertised you could easily claim an extra 4-7mph from the pulley alone. Maybe even a tad more. I am VERY impressed with this setup and will post more when I get the GPS on it. I also put a ported and polished and milled performance head from SYC and did some other things so I have to tune it all in before I know final results. MORE TO FOLLOW. If you were on the fence about that pulley.........It's worth every bit of $84.








http://www.ebay.com/itm/170980209035...84.m1497.l2649




http://www.ebay.com/itm/170966203892...84.m1497.l2649

[xlint89]

Did you install the ported head also?

If so, don't you think that may have added to the power increase? A well breathing motor will do wonders in all RPM ranges.

[SLESTAK75]

I did. And I don't attribute the power gain to the pulley at all. Just listening to the RPMs being lower and the speed being faster and knowing I had more throttle to go. But I mean to tell you I am absurdly impressed with that head. I could feel a dramatic increase in power. I also had to open the hole in the exhaust flange( it was smaller than the header pipe) and open up the intake ( also smaller than stock intake port). But all in all just WOW.

[xlint89]

Yep, good head will do that.


Port matching intake and header does alot too. Amazing how mis-matched these openings can be.

So what head did you have Tom prepare for you?

[SLESTAK75]

True. Just matching your exhaust flange opening and your intake to the head that you have could make a nice gain. I was floored at how mismatched these were. ( FREE POWER ) I had Tom fix up the large valve performance head.

[xlint89]

Very nice. I do hear Tom does really nice head work.

I personally would really love to see what he does with a 4 valve. (hint, hint, Tom. Any word on sourcing the good ones)

[SLESTAK75]

I bet that 4-valve worked over and sitting on top of a 180 big bore would be REALLY sweet. Question for you xlint. I am loving the way this CVT is working now. With the new power from the head it zips up quickly to the point where the shift begins and it holds that RPM solid and just keeps accelerating; however, I would like the RPMs a bit higher through the shift. I am running 11 gram weights now. If I switched to 10s what kind of difference could I expect?

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by xlint89

Made by the same company, not sure if it's the same as KNM part though.

KNM doesn't mention the extra "race" groove, and claims the pulley opens up 3mm more. The Ebay one only says it increases top speed.

KNM is supposed to be the only seller of THAT pulley as it's supposed to be HIS design.

It does appear that they are selling his DR2 variator design too....

After getting this pulley I was unable to open it to see these extra grooves but it is sitting in that "race" groove. it twists open then it hits that spot and just slams open the rest of the way. When measured from edge to edge of the open pulley it really doesn't open further. Its the shape of the faces that is different and this allows the belt to get down into the pulley about 3/4" further than the stock one.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

I bet that 4-valve worked over and sitting on top of a 180 big bore would be REALLY sweet. Question for you xlint. I am loving the way this CVT is working now. With the new power from the head it zips up quickly to the point where the shift begins and it holds that RPM solid and just keeps accelerating; however, I would like the RPMs a bit higher through the shift. I am running 11 gram weights now. If I switched to 10s what kind of difference could I expect?

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

After getting this pulley I was unable to open it to see these extra grooves but it is sitting in that "race" groove. it twists open then it hits that spot and just slams open the rest of the way. When measured from edge to edge of the open pulley it really doesn't open further. Its the shape of the faces that is different and this allows the belt to get down into the pulley about 3/4" further than the stock one.

Maybe you should try the other groove on that pulley you got and see what you get?

The "race" groove is supposed to hold you in more midrange power than the stock groove.

I honestly didn't like the 10g sliders as it made it rev higher, but hurt top speed. I really like the 12g sliders on mine, but I do alot of running on flat pavement, so not much off road testing on my part.

I would ask Tom what he thinks you should run with that new found HP.

On a side note, Hey Tom, what did you find while you were digging inside Slestak's head?

[SLESTAK75]

I tell you one thing. When Tom was digging in my head he opened the wrong door and let the loonies out. I tried to remove the cover to get to the grooves and couldn't remove it. I like the way its working now. On the same runs I did before I can't get it wound all the way out and it's going faster at lower rpm. I wanted the higher rpm for pull up hills. It is doing better than ever before but I feel that if I got 500 more rpms it would pull hills a bit better. I may try to change that groove at some point. Ill get a Garmin on it later. Still getting carb tuned. I need to open the intake a bit more too. Perhaps 11grams are the ones. I get good low end but the variator still goes through full motion. xlint...I saw a very familiar cvt set on ebay. It said the sellers name was Poindexter or something....know anything about that??

[mb1134]

Well after reading Slestak75's review, i took the plunge on the $85 pulley set, $30 cheaper than KNM's. Can't wait to get it in. Also got the DR2 coming in. Bahahahaha. I cant wait. I plan on getting the BBK and Tom's 4 valve head maybe by this Fall. I would have loved to have had him P&P my big valve head, but at the time of ordering i thought it already was. Wich setting of the pulley are you using Slestak? I am curious to see how this whole setup looks and works.

[SLESTAK75]

MB when you put that large valve head on did you match the intake and exhaust to the head. If not you should do that. There is a nice gain in power to be had here. The exhaust flange (where the exhaust meets the head) on mine was smaller than the pipe it was welded to, and quite a bit smaller than even the port on the stock head. And the intake; if you really examine it, is smaller on the head side than the carb side. Also smaller than the head port. To answer your question on the groove. It comes set in the race groove. I tried to remove the cover to get access to the grooves; even trying to pry it with a screwdriver, but I couldn't remove it. I may just need to try harder but I didn't want to break it before I got to try it out. The way I understand this race groove is this. It starts on an angle but when it gets to the end it drops straight down. When you are riding and accelerating it gets to a point near top speed and then the RPMs drop as it slides into the bottom of the groove. While in this groove it is held in the high gear so if you let off the gas and get back on it the pulley will still be fully open as opposed to the stock groove which will start to close immediately as you let off the gas. If you want to run at top speeds the race groove is great, but if you are in the woods and varying your speed alot then the stock groove would be good so you would have your lower gearing when needed. The greater top speed is available with both sets of grooves.

[mb1134]

Honestly i cant remember if they were all the same size. I hate to rip the head back apart after finally getting the thing tuned and running kinda good.

[SLESTAK75]

No need to remove the head. Just the intake and exhaust. If you didn't do anything to them then they aren't the same size. Think of the intake like a straw, if you are sucking as much through the straw as much as it is capable of moving then sucking harder isn't going to get more through it. But if you get a bigger straw. So opening that intake and exhaust up allows that head to move as much as its capable of. The exhaust flange you just open up to match the inside of the header and get rid of the ring style gasket. NCY makes a flat performance gasket that can be sized to match the hole. Then on the intake you feel inside while its on the head and wherever you feel a lip just remove metal until the holes are even. Also open up the inner angle of the intake to match. You can see when this is close. No need to remove the head.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

I tell you one thing. When Tom was digging in my head he opened the wrong door and let the loonies out. I tried to remove the cover to get to the grooves and couldn't remove it. I like the way its working now. On the same runs I did before I can't get it wound all the way out and it's going faster at lower rpm. I wanted the higher rpm for pull up hills. It is doing better than ever before but I feel that if I got 500 more rpms it would pull hills a bit better. I may try to change that groove at some point. Ill get a Garmin on it later. Still getting carb tuned. I need to open the intake a bit more too. Perhaps 11grams are the ones. I get good low end but the variator still goes through full motion. xlint...I saw a very familiar cvt set on ebay. It said the sellers name was Poindexter or something....know anything about that??

I would switch that groove then if you want the higher RPM.

The spring sleeve (cover) will come off, just got to twist and pry at the same time.

Dexter huh?????

[SLESTAK75]

I do believe I will change grooves. After examining the pictures and also thinking about how it acts. The other groove is not as steep which will slow the shift allowing those slightly higher rmps. It will also allow for a quicker downshift on a hill whereas with the race groove it wants to hold the high gear. Might be good on a much lighter scooter on the road but the buggy needs to shift more readily.

[xlint89]

If you read the description, the race groove is supposed to hold the gearing up a little higher allowing you to "cruise" at a lower RPM while still maintaining higher speeds on a scooter.

I don't think that groove would be good for our karts.

[SLESTAK75]

That's what I was thinking. You just said it better. I think the race groove would begreat on a scooter. I will be changing it out this week. Now you need one xlint.

[xlint89]

Maybe. Would like to hear back from someone that did JUST that mod by itself.

Hopefully Jman gets his buggy together soon.

I mean no offense, but you can't add a performance ported head along with that and get an accurate comparison.

[SLESTAK75]

I take no offense. I know what you're saying. I can tell you for a certainty that the belt does in fact go further into this pulley by about 3/4 inch. If you measured the outer diameter of the belt as if it were a gear it goes from 4-4 1/2" stock to about 2 1/2"-3" with this pulley. And I get the same speeds with lower rpms now. Those are the only things I know the head didn't change. But actual speed difference Would be affected by both.

[xlint89]

You do have me wondering, l'll admit that. Didn't someone else report buying one recently?

[mb1134]

I bought one, but i will not be installing until llater this week when it arrives. I will be able to get a better feel for it as all my mods are done besides this pulley.

[Johnny 5]

I am thinking of getting this pulley now and going back to the 39t sprocket.

I tried the shim on the 183cc motor and the motorio dr2 that we just bought last trip.
This one came with both pulleys and runs the regular size rollers/sliders.

The kid n me dr2 didnt come with the fan pulley so I used a stock fan pulley that dosnt have the 1mm raised inner lip. It does have the larger 20mm rollers that work better and havent flat spotted yet in almost 2 years. The .80mm shim worked good on this set up on the red dune buggy. It increased take off and dosnt try to take off at idle like before.

The shim is putting the trans in a lower gear and either the belt or the clutch is slipping.
The shim put the belt deeper in the rear pulley and causes the belt to slip on hard take off, or clutch. The clutch is a stock howhitt with longer shoes that is more than 50% worn out.

Going to take it out tonight after work. I might try the clutch off the red buggy that is newer and way thicker to determin what is slipping.

[SLESTAK75]

@johnny. You just got me thinking about this pulley with maybe a 35t sprocket. Probably keep near the same top end as stock but have that added pull on the bottom. Hmmmmmmm

[Johnny 5]

Now that Im thinking of it the blue dune 183cc motor was sliping on take off after putting the 31t sprocket on back in January. In the dirt it spins the tires a bit but on the pavement the motor spins up fast and the buggy is slowly moving untill the clutch catches up and then it chuggs a bit. With the 39t it would launch no problem, with a small amount of slip.

If you get a 5mph roll and punch it it is awesome. So might need a new clutch, this one is about 4 years old or more.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

I am thinking of getting this pulley now and going back to the 39t sprocket.

I tried the shim on the 183cc motor and the motorio dr2 that we just bought last trip.
This one came with both pulleys and runs the regular size rollers/sliders.

The kid n me dr2 didnt come with the fan pulley so I used a stock fan pulley that dosnt have the 1mm raised inner lip. It does have the larger 20mm rollers that work better and havent flat spotted yet in almost 2 years. The .80mm shim worked good on this set up on the red dune buggy. It increased take off and dosnt try to take off at idle like before.

The shim is putting the trans in a lower gear and either the belt or the clutch is slipping.
The shim put the belt deeper in the rear pulley and causes the belt to slip on hard take off, or clutch. The clutch is a stock howhitt with longer shoes that is more than 50% worn out.

Going to take it out tonight after work. I might try the clutch off the red buggy that is newer and way thicker to determin what is slipping.

Just curious, why do you say the 20 rollers work better?

I see they have both sizes listed now, but can't seem to find an advantage of the larger roller VS. the 18 X 14 (stock size) Thanks

[Johnny 5]

The bigger rollers havent flat spotted yet like the 18x14 rollers . All the 18x14 rollers I have run seem to eventually flat spot. This dr2 variator is about 3 years old that is like 15 2 day trips to the desert and no flat spots.

It came with 11/9 10/8 roller combos. Ran the 11/9 then the 10/9 and now running the 9/8 for best performance. The larger rollers almost seem to work more efficient at spreading the load and am happy with the 9/8 and got to 39 almost 40mph in a 100 yard run with 31/16 40/13 internal gears.

Probally can go faster just need a longer trail.

[Johnny 5]

I have both style of motorio dr2 and I would go with the larger rollers and the one on ebay comes with the drive fan pulley.

[xlint89]

When I inquired about the 20 X 17 DR2 variator , that was the exact response i got from others. Less flat spots and more even pressure against the plate.

The only thing i have against the bigger one is no sliders available in that size. You don't have to worry about flat spots, and the sliders apply better pressure against the plate as well. Not to mention I would have to buy all new rollers in different weights.

Thank you for your input. I REALLY do apprecaite it.

[mb1134]

Well i installed my new KOSO clutch, DR2 pulley with 9.5/12.5 rollers, and the Motorio pulley. Hopefully i will get a chance to test her out today or tomorow. Whats up with the odd weights of 9.5, 10.5 and 12.5?

[Johnny 5]

The light weight in the L ramp give you that take off and keep the belt in a lower range untill the S ramp heavy rollers catch up and give you your speed.

I noticed on the red buggy (kid n me 20mm dr2) with the 8 in the L and the 9 in the S it has a high rpm take off and then it up shifts and moves out.

When I ran the 10/11 rollers it didnt have that take off and noticable up shift feel.

I think the 20mm rollers are working with more leverage and that is why the lighter 8/9 weights still work like the 11 gram sliders I am running in the blue buggy with the motorio 18mm dr2.

I first tried the 9/10.5 rollers first in the blue buggy and the rpm was at 7000 rpms any time the gas was to the floor. I then installed 10/11 sliders and droped the rpm to about 6200/6300rpm on take off.

The high rpm works great in the red buggy with the 58.5 155cc motor and the a12 cam.

I was able to shim the red buggy with the dr2 because of the stock variator fan, the kid n me dr2 didnt come with a fan pulley , before the shim the clutch would grab right at take off. So all the shim did was put the belt were it would be if it had the fan pulley with the 1mm raised lip on the inner fan pulley.

I got greedy and put a .80mm shim in the blue buggy with the motorio dr2 18x14 when I decided to try all 11 gram sliders to get the rpms down on the 183cc A12 motor because the torque was being wasted with the high rpms.

I ran it about 4 times up and down the street and it was slipping bad on take off, the clutch is weak but it was reving up hard then it would grab. I took it apart and removed the shim and the belt is glazed and the new variator has a wear groove from the belt slipping. It not destroyed but it would have been if it was left in there. I am going to replace the belt because it is now cracked in several places and it is not even a year old.

So be careful with this shim mod, if the belt is sitting too low in the variator it slips on take off and it will cook your belt and variator very quick, I ran it for like less than 5 minuets to do this damage.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by mb1134

Well i installed my new KOSO clutch, DR2 pulley with 9.5/12.5 rollers, and the Motorio pulley. Hopefully i will get a chance to test her out today or tomorow. Whats up with the odd weights of 9.5, 10.5 and 12.5?

How do you install all of those goodies and NOT test it?

Who does that?????

Just kidding MB, I'm the kinda guy that makes revving motor noises as I'm working on it. Funny part is, I end up shifting gears alot.

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by xlint89

How do you install all of those goodies and NOT test it?

Who does that?????

Just kidding MB, I'm the kinda guy that makes revving motor noises as I'm working on it. Funny part is, I end up shifting gears alot.

Well i tested it on a lap around the block and played for a few minutes yesterday. I must say i am impressed with it. I used the 9g and 12.5g rollers. The only down side i noticed is when the 12.5 kick in and i lose the torque when i hit the shift point. Must say i kind of love these new little toys. I am planning on changing the small rollers to 8g and probably throwing the 10.5g in the heavy slots. Anyone have 3 8g they want to sell or know where i can pick them up without overpaying for a set o 6? Or would the 10g sliders i have work in place of the 8g rollers? Tom said that the 10g sliders work like 8g rollers and the 12 sliders like 10g rollers. What do you all think?