Crossfire external reverse question

[Tionestajeeper]

Just started to work on the back end of a crossfire 150 with external reverse. Factory model previous owner said the cable was broken. The cable looks fine but the attaching point looks like something is missing. I can't seem to locate a good breakdown to compare mine to. Any idea where i can find a breakdown?

[zman007007]

sorry but I cant help you buddy mine doesnt have reverse, but hopefully someone else can.. zman

[Tionestajeeper]

Thanks zman just need a bit of help before I tear reverse apart and try to figure it out myself.

[xlint89]

Yep, you're missing the big chrome piece on the gear box.

(top right of the pic)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GY6-150cc-Re...5335a2&vxp=mtr

[x-bird]

i've never been able to find that part for sale by itself. i have a spare gearbox/engine missing it as well. you could take a chunk of 3/4 to 1 inch rod stock, bore a hole wide and deep enough to slip snugly over the gearbox end where the cable goes. then bore a smaller hole from the other side to fit the cable and ball through and tap/thread it for the pipe on the end of the housing. you feed the cable through the "new" part first then put the cable ball in the socket. it can be a real pain since you're working against the spring tension of the shift fork inside the unit and the socket wants to retract while your doing it.

[Tionestajeeper]

Thanks x-bird sounds like it just holds the cable end in place and fastens to the hub. Will try to weld something up and see how it goes. The one in xlint89's link showes it held on with set screws that could be an easy solution to keeping it in place. Just need to figure out how long to make it so it could be adjustable.

[x-bird]

you have to remove the circlip to get the ball in --that's what keeps the cable in the fork shaft --once you pop the clip, the shift fork pulls inside. You can put a lightly tightened set of needlenose vice grips on the end of the shaft, pop the clip, pull out with the pliers, put the cable in, reinstall the clip then let the vice grips loose. then step back after 6 tries and wish you were an octopus. the piece you're missing can be locked to the main portion of the housing, just make sure it doesn't bind on the shift fork end.

[bear]

Yea, ur gonna have alotta fun with that! really the only pain in the -ss with the external box.

[Tionestajeeper]

Just need to figure out how much the fork shaft needs to be able to pull out. Have a few ideas on a way to make this easy. But I am going to try a one piece tubing idea first. If it don't work going with two piece.

[SYCARMS]

The trick is to connect the rev box end of cable first then to the shift handle. I use a screwdriver in the detent to pry the shaft out as far as possible then as XBIRD said use a small vice grip to hold shaft, pull the retainer install the cable then replace retainer. Its darn near impossible to connect at rev. box with shifter end connected. The cable must extend past that coupler your missing. I have tried to find them but have had no luck so far.

[x-bird]

my shifter end is so jury rigged that i don't dare disconnect it, so i do the darn near impossible method. (or used to)

the type i have use bolt bosses running up the sides and are held in place with a pair of screws. you want to make the type shown in the link. you should be able to move your shifter and measure how much the cable end moves to get the height of the inside area to make sure the shift fork shaft has enough travel area. most cables have a threaded end tube and lock nut for tension adjustment with no adjustments made with the missing piece itself.

[bear]

Ok, so heres the deal, on my red buggy sometimes the reverse works fine and sometimes it just doesn't want to catch at all. It's not really an issue while riding, cause I don't use the reverse hardly at all! but when I'm putting it up in the garage I usually back it in. I've greased it and tried tweeking the adjustment on it is there just some sweet spot I'm looking for or what?

[SYCARMS]

Be a bit more descriptive. What does it do, what do you hear ect, when it does not want to catch.

[bear]

Ok, well it will start to engage and then it just acts as if it is kicking itself out of gear. It makes a metal cick sound like its kinda skipping the "take hold" point on the reverse gear. It used to be not so prevailant, but lately it is getting more so and now I can't get it to pull in reverse on an incline at all! I've been told there is a sweet spot on the external box's that you have to find, but I'm not sure how to get to it, or if I just need to remove it and take a look inside!?

[SYCARMS]

OK it sounds as if it is nor pulling the planetary set far enough to engage. There can be two reasons for this, the most common is the cable just isn't pulling the planetary far enough to engage due to either adjustment or a stretched cable. You should have 2 adj. points one at the rev. box and other at the shift handle. To a lessor degree I personally run into the same problem and it was due to old grease buildup. In cooler temps the grease had hardened therefore not allowing the planetary to move it's full travel. Your lever will travel beyond the detent which holds the lever into the rev position. Try to pull rev. handle as far as it will go while holding it in the rearmost position see if it will engage. If so this indicates cable adjustment.

[x-bird]

ditto the above--as i said, mine's really "rigged" so i try not to mess with it since it works. to get it engage, i have to push the handle beyond the detent and hold it there until i'm moving in reverse. at that point i can let go and it stays engaged. just going to the detent causes the problem you're having. dropping into forward isn't an issue.

[Tionestajeeper]

Tanks for the info. Here is what I have so far cut a piece of heavy tubing that slips snug over the reverse housing. Drilled it and threaded it for a set screw. Have a color that slips over it to weld an end onto to except the cable tube. All the adjustment points should make the installation a bit easier. First try hope it works if not back to the drawing board. Will post pic in an album.

[SYCARMS]

Sounds to me like your on the right track, it will work.

[bear]

Thanks for the advise Tom I'll give it a try, right now I'm on a shut down, working my -ss off! nothing like sandblasting an overhead ceiling on scaffolding 10hrs. a night to relax a man!!!

[SYCARMS]

About as bad as drywalling a ceiling.

[ckau]

Originally Posted by SYCARMS

About as bad as drywalling a ceiling.

Oh no It's a whole lot worse! you can drywall a ceiling naked if thats your cup of tea! Bear has to follow OSHA regs. Jump through all the hoops, follow a specific procedure and wear a suit directly related to a deep sea diver's rig! I couldn't design a crappier job. At least it's winter time and hopefully not too hot in there! Hats off to you bear! you got my respect!

[SYCARMS]

One perk is if you have poison ivy you blast nude and it feels wonderful. May have a burning sensation afterwords but no more itching, more effective then hydrocortazone.

[Tionestajeeper]

reverse working. My Mickey Mouse engineering seems to have paid off this time. And with an added bonus, more adjustment for later stretching cable. (Didn't plan on this way but it seems to have worked out) had to space between plates because it didn't pull far enough out but hey sometimes you get lucky. Plan on making some sort of cover to keep mud out. What do you think is there something I'm missing that could be a potential problem? More photos in my album.

[SYCARMS]

Looks good and it works You just need some sort of dust boot to keep the muck out.

[Tionestajeeper]

I'm thinking just a cut tennis ball. Should cover it.. Simple usually works the best.

[x-bird]

a couple inch long piece of bicycle inner tube and some zip ties ...

[bear]

Ok thats a pretty sweet assy. Jeeper! and I think the tube and tiestrap is your best bet! as for the drywall, every since they came out with custom made to order lenghts up to 24', I've wanted to kill the man who came up with that! and as for the blast job, inside a General MIlls food processing facility aka HOT,HOT,HOT!!!! and I pulled a muscle in my back right off the bat rigging the d-mn thing and have to wear a brace while blasting! yeehaw!!! lol

[SYCARMS]

Some years back I labored for a tuk pointer, I would have to siut up in 90 deg weather and sand blast the side of a large building in prep for stucco. All joking aside, your job sucks and is not easy by any means especially while working on scaffolding 30' up. I lost at least 40 lbs that summer. And since your fairly close to the wall while blowing sand @ 220 and up psi the suit is a necessity.

[bear]

I appreciate the props guys, alotta people dont know how ruff this is til they see it first hand! then they run like h-ll! lol I use all different types of media too from baking soda to steel shreds, now that a ruff blast! its only part of what I do, I'm actually a Polyurea coatings tech. and its a pretty high tech job, so I'm like an idiot with a college education! lol

[zman007007]

there is nothing like an educated idiot. LOL

[SYCARMS]

I learned through the years that no job in reality is better or easier then another. I worked for the airlines and because I was a low timmer one of my jobs was working on the turd trucks. Every day going to work I passed through the toll booths where a guy took your money and give you a receipt then said sometimes thank you and please drive safely. These toll takers made 16.00 per hour with bennifits. I said this is an easy job that requires no brains what so ever and paid about the same I was making at the time working on turd trucks. But when you think about it standing and sitting for 8 hours 5 days a week for the rest of your life with nothing but a radio to listen to and vertually no socialising except for the occasional driver asking you where the hell he is was not something I would want to do. In perspective I had a much better job then he .

[bear]

Hey, I worked my way thru school blasting bridges and water towers in the summer for the greeks, then when I finally finished I went to work in a law firm as the office manager and after I figured out what was going on I hated every single day of it till I left and got my back outside doing what I worked my way thru school doing, how ironic, its just now I'm getting a little older I can definitly feel the days work at the end of the day, I love what I do for the most part, but it is a young mans game, and I'm the second oldest guy at our company, and the only one who still suites up and blast! Oh did I mention I'm the #1 rated blaster in our entire company, geez go figure! score one for the "old farts" lol

[SYCARMS]

It just goes to show you that when you give all you got you get screwed in the end.

[x-bird]

if i've learned one thing its that the harder you work ... the harder they'll work you ... But it sounds like all of us guilty of participating in this massive thread derailment all know that hard work made this country great, and will again one day--if we can kick the chumps back to their respective places and get he younger generation to bust butt and take pride more ;~) A lot of times i look back on the most recent career i retired from (1 of many varied ones--as automotive tech and features writer/mag editor) and the one i'm in now and I long for some aspects of it. in the end though i found i need variety and have always moved on without burning bridges (except when i had to take one employer to the state dept. of labor--kicked their tails w/o a lawyer) and despite those occasional days where i think i have regrets,I still wouldn't change what i've done or what i'm doing now.

[bear]

Ok Tom so I finally got around to checking out my external reverse box on my dazon. found out two things, #1 it is the wrong cable for the reverse on these buggy's(we discussed that awhile back, if you can remember) it's just way to long. #2 I'm missing the little semi circle clip that goes on the little plunger that actuates the planetary gears by where the cable ball goes in. #3 no matter what I've tried to do to get it to go into reverse it still acts like it's just barely missing catching that reverse gear! Now I have 2 of these buggy's exact the same and the blue ones reverse works just fine, so do you think I should try taking the cable of the blue one to see if it will work on the red one or just conceed that I need to disassemble the red ones gears to see if there is a problem there!?

[SYCARMS]

If you have the wrong cable there will not be enough travel to move the planetary to lock into reverse. This will happen with a badly stretched cable for sure. It also could be as I said before packed with hardened grease to where it just cannot move far enough to engauge. Most rev boxes I have disassembled have a blue or black grease that has turned the consistency of candle wax. When regreasing I always use a moly lithium grease. Even the synthetic greases I have found will do this but not to the same extent. The greases the box comes with is highly parafinic and is the reason for hardening. The moly lithium will never do this.

[bear]

Well ok I removed the cable and tried to "manually" engage the reverse, and still the same thing! are there any videos on how to remove and disassemble the external box? I've never done it before!

[SYCARMS]

I have never seen a video, however they are quite easy to remove and disassemble. If you post a picture of your rev box, mainly from passenger (right) side I should be able to walk tou through it. There are 3-4 different gears used which all look similar but are different in certain characteristics.