Carbide 150cc Top Speed

[Danp]

Anybody hitting 57 ~ 58 mph on their Carbide?

Mods are, 12g sliders, Dr. Pully Variator, intake, 126 main jet and slightly modded exhaust.

I took it for a speed run with my nephew onboard also, granted we were going slightly down hill (I'm talking 2~3% decline) and we hit 57 mph! I was throughly surprised.

I would have thought going from stock 14g to 12g sliders, i would have lost some top speed.

Thinking I might go down to 10g sliders now to grab some extra low end, since we do a lot of forest riding. Not much room for flat out runs.

[2SlickNick]

Going down hill at my house I get 48 mph on speedo. On flat surface I still get anywhere from 42-45 mph. I love the Carbide. Super awesome for trail riding.

[Miamieddie]

That's damn good..... I know you both ain't complaining. mine does 32 mph. With the extra stuff I've added turning it into a baja, bullet proof, tank.

[2SlickNick]

I know these speedometers are not the most accurate but I have a speedometer app for my I phone and it is about 1-3 mph as accurate as Carbide Speedo.
No complaints though, but think I will end up putting 1500 clutch arm springs on and drop it to 10 gram sliders.
I am guessing I will still be able to hit 40mph. Since those sliders will put me at a 12 g roller high speed but still get the torque.

[Danp]

Same here. I have the yellow clutch springs waiting and I should have my 10g rollers soon

[2SlickNick]

I suggest 10g sliders because you will get the 10g low end with 12g high end power. They last longer too.

[Miamieddie]

I believe a 10 gm slider is the same as a 8 gram roller not a 12. I also think the lowest you can go without affecting ur top speed is 11gram slider.

[2SlickNick]

You are right Eddie, I was back ass-wards. Lol.

[2SlickNick]

http://gokartsusa.com/gy6150performa...weights-2.aspx

here is a good source.

[2SlickNick]

Just ordered uni filter. Anyone know stock main jet size.?
What sizes should I go with?
I am approximately 1500 feet above sea level in northern panhandle of W.V.

[Miamieddie]

They come in differant sized. Mine came with 124 other buggys come with108 and even less than 100. Try with what you have on a wot test and look at ur plug. Then will move from there. At that elevation there's less oxygen. So its going to be differant maybe adjustment on ur air/fuel mixture screw only... maybe.

[2SlickNick]

Thanks again Eddie. As long as I don't run too lean. Hope for the best.

[Miamieddie]

I m gonna run this over with myself. Cold air has more oxygen more oxygen requires more fuel (bigger jet). At 1500ft. Means less oxygen less oxygen requires less fuel (smaller jet). ... ok idont think you'll be running lean when doing ur wot test. If anything a little rich I think ur safe. Why don't we wait for someone to chime in on this. I'm a little confused right now don't want you to blow ur motor.

[Masteryota]

@eddie, cooler/cold air is denser than warm air, yes you get more oxygen in the engine with cooler air, meaning more bang, but the temp doesn't really effect the oxygen content. Elevation, however, does. Everyone knows from watching the Mount Everest documentaries, that the higher you go, the less usable oxygen there is.

@nick, at 1500ft, you might get by without changing the jet, but I would put in a fresh plug and see how it looks BEFORE you change the intake, that way you have a base line and it can help you figure out which direction you need to go. If it is milk chocolate color on the electrode, you will likely need to jet a little fatter/richer. If it is darker, the intake will help you out. Lighter colors mean you are already lean, and will need to go a few sizes bigger.

The main reason to keep you engine running at 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio is for a clean, complete burn, without harming the piston, cylinder, valves or gaskets. Most racers will tell you 'lean is mean', which is true, lean does develop more power, but at the cost of overheating the engine internals. Lean conditions also develop harmful emissions which damage the environment, but that doesn't really apply to small engine use, we use such a small percentage of a percentage, that is doesn't matter. On the flip side, running rich will develop excess soot and carbon, which will insulate the head and piston, not allowing proper heat dissipation through the metals. In extreme cases, very rich conditions will allow the unburnt fuel to 'wash' the cylinder down, meaning it has diluted the engine oil, and allows the fuel to pass by the rings. FUEL DOES NOT LUBRICATE WELL.

If I have to choose a condition, I choose slightly rich. Reason being, you don't run the risk of overheating, and it will be easier to start cold, or near cold, thus requiring minimal choke usage.

[2SlickNick]

Pretty damn thorough Master. Thanks. I didn't have to change the jets on my old go kart and dirtbike when I put a uni on those. I will check the plug tonight or tomorrow since I put that on about a month ago. Then I will put in a new plug once the Uni comes in. Thanks again. I am with you. slightly rich is better for me in the long run.

[Masteryota]

Some engines can tolerate lean conditions, not to mention the elevation difference. Down here, we have nice fat humid air, and any change requires jetting changes.

[Johnny 5]

Danp do you know how much a carbide buggy weighs? The fastest I got my Baja dune 150 in the dirt with a tail wind was 40mph and it was fast enough. I replaced the internal gears from 13/40 to 13/43 to get more take off and it feels just as fast at top speed but have yet to gps it with the internal gear change.

[Danp]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

Danp do you know how much a carbide buggy weighs? The fastest I got my Baja dune 150 in the dirt with a tail wind was 40mph and it was fast enough. I replaced the internal gears from 13/40 to 13/43 to get more take off and it feels just as fast at top speed but have yet to gps it with the internal gear change.

Hey Johnny, curb weight is 522 and I check in at 175. This buggy never seases to amaze me.

[Johnny 5]

Is the spedo in kph or mph? I am curious because 58mph is hauling butt on one of these buggies. My dune 150 with a a12 cam ncy valve springs ported head modified exhaust uni intake 125 main jet and stock rear gearing 31/16t and internal gearing 13/43 orange cdi will get to 30mph fast. And then to 40mph it takes a little while but as for 58mph I would need nitrous or a turbo charger.
I found the specs for your buggy and it says it has a oil cooler. That is nice because my wifes dune 183cc 62mm piston 60.8 stroke crank gets hot quick when it is over 85 degrees out and then it runs like crap. I want to put on a oil cooler but 200.00 bucks is not in the budget now, but maybe later.

[Miamieddie]

Thanks masteryota.

[Masteryota]

I would need nitrous or a turbo charger.

Not to be the devils advocate, but there is a rather nice and affordable turbo kit for our size small engines, if one were so inclined. I thought about it for a minute, but I know the clutches in my engine would not hold There is also a fuel injection kit, that looks rather nice, but I like simple toys.

[Danp]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

Is the spedo in kph or mph? I am curious because 58mph is hauling butt on one of these buggies. My dune 150 with a a12 cam ncy valve springs ported head modified exhaust uni intake 125 main jet and stock rear gearing 31/16t and internal gearing 13/43 orange cdi will get to 30mph fast. And then to 40mph it takes a little while but as for 58mph I would need nitrous or a turbo charger.
I found the specs for your buggy and it says it has a oil cooler. That is nice because my wifes dune 183cc 62mm piston 60.8 stroke crank gets hot quick when it is over 85 degrees out and then it runs like crap. I want to put on a oil cooler but 200.00 bucks is not in the budget now, but maybe later.

Oil cooler? Nope don't have one. I have the carbide 150cc. I think the actual model is 7151.

Also, my speedo is Mph. I'm thinking my speedo isn't accurate because with my drop to 10g sliders I was only getting 40 to 42 mph with my gps. I doubt I would lose 10 mph by dropping 2 grams in slider weights.

Ill do another run next weekend in the same location I clocked my crazy 57mph speed and this time I will verifying with my gps.

[2SlickNick]

Yours does not have the oil cooler? Mine does. Mine is the 7150 model.

[Carbide-Ohio]

Nick, we are in similar elevations. Check my signature. Mine came stock with a 35/108 config.

[2SlickNick]

Thanks, I will check soon when I disassemble this week. Will the jet have a number on it?

[Miamieddie]

Yes right on top

[2SlickNick]

Originally Posted by Carbide-Ohio

Nick, we are in similar elevations. Check my signature. Mine came stock with a 35/108 config.

just checked mine is also 35 pilot 108 main. We are in similar elevations. What do you think? I will put uni on as soon as I get it. I have stock exhaust. Will pull plug later do do some runs this week. I think I should go ahead order some larger jets just incase.

[2SlickNick]

what sizes should I order?

[Carbide-Ohio]

Mine ran a little lean stock so I would try a 117, 120, 122.5.

[2SlickNick]

Okay, thanks. From what I have been reading of carbides at similar elevations it looks like people are running with 130-140 mains.

[2SlickNick]

Sorry Danp I switching the subject in your thread.

[2SlickNick]

Thi is the way it looks and looked when running all stock up

[Carbide-Ohio]

That's a lot darker than what mine was. Without having the new pipe and header, 130-140 may be too rich.

[Masteryota]

Originally Posted by Carbide-Ohio

That's a lot darker than what mine was. Without having the new pipe and header, 130-140 may be too rich.

Agreed. Might want to try the stock one first with just the filter, then you/we can guestimate how far to go. You will still likely need to buy a few, especially if you plan to gut or replace the exhaust, as it will need more fuel then as well.

[ckau]

Usually a 125 to 127.5 jet is good for a uni and/or a pipe upgrade on a stock motor. Remember as you jet up your fuel consumption increases so your flow rate will need to be increased also. Figure on going to larger size fuel line and a large volume filter otherwise you'll find yourself running the carb dry.

[Johnny 5]

My 155cc red dune with the A12 cam ported head fmf muffler uni filter orange cdi runs best with a 125 main. I was running a 120 and it would clatter when it got hot like pre detonation. The pilot in both our buggies is a 35 and the blue dune with the 183cc motor has a 127.5 main and runs great same mods but stock cdi because it dosnt like the extra timing.

[Masteryota]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

pre detonation.

It's called pre ignition, fuel mix lights off before coil fires, heat, and fuel quality are most common causes. Almost sounds like marbles in a glass jar.

I know, I'm a monster, lol.

[2SlickNick]

Thanks for the help guys. Runs great with UNI added and zero adjustments. It actually took out my 1/2 throttle sputter/bog.
Once I buy new plug monday we will see true results and move from there. Thanks again.

[Johnny 5]

My 155cc dune ran great at sea level with a 120 main and even better at night. But on a long hot run it would clatter when I pushed it in the sand washes. I put a 122 main and it got better so I tried a 125 and it is on the money. A little loss in power with the bigger main but better for the engine. Lean runs mean but can cause engine failure, Back in the early 90s I bought a used 10,000 rpm nitrous kit for 200.00 bucks and was warned it was a motor killer. Me and my friend hurried to put it on my 68 Chevelle for the Friday night street races and did not run a extra fuel pump like I was told to do. So at idle the fuel pressure was 7psi and on a hard launch with the nos it would drop to 3psi and it ran hard. The nos was suppose to be 150hp increase so it ran like mad. My Chevelle was at the time a high 12second car 12.95 12.90 at 103/105mph. But with the nos was not track tested but I chased down a mid 11 sec Camaro on my second race because the first race he spun off the line and wanted a rematch me after I made a full pass. My friend told me don't you won and your car is hot, I was so pumped I lined up and about 1000ft and 3 car lengths or more chasing him my motor sounded like jiffy pop popcorn but 10 times louder. The carb ran dry and lean popped the motor, good thing we brought a trailer.

Sorry for the long story I was remembering the crazy street racing days. So it is better to run more fuel to be on the safe side.

[2SlickNick]

put new plug in. Ran it approximately 5-10 minutes and.......white. Should I make any pilot adjustments with stock jet in it?
I have the stock 108 jet. I was gonna buy a 3 pack from kid n me what package should I go for? They do not have a 125 they have a 124.126,128 package.
Once I put that in and run it should I make pilot adjustments at all?
Will order tonight based on your suggestions, thanks.

[Miamieddie]

Too lean. Get all 3 sizes. 108 is too small.

[2SlickNick]

I will order those tonight then Eddy, thanks.
I totally get you Johnny, mine is lean and in the garage it will sit until new jets.
You live and learn LOL.

[Danp]

Hey Slick,

Yup, too lean. Also, are you killing the engine at wide open throttle. Remember the main jet isn't active until 1/2 to 3/4 throttle range.

I ended up changing my pilot jet also from 35 to 38 and my main jet from 111 stock to 126. Runs nice and smooth and the plug is a dark tan colour.

[Danp]

Update on Speed run. Looks like my speedo is about 5 to 7 mph fast. GPS put my latest run 40 mph on a slight downhill run. I think that's still great considering I'm running 10g sliders.

[2SlickNick]

Ya, I should probably order a pilot jet too.
Gotta love the Carbide.

[Webbinator]

Originally Posted by Danp

Update on Speed run. Looks like my speedo is about 5 to 7 mph fast. GPS put my latest run 40 mph on a slight downhill run. I think that's still great considering I'm running 10g sliders.

That's about all I can get out of mine also. I've never broken 40 mph. Still feels like you are really scooting along at a pretty good clip though. In the woods I can't open it all the say up. Has great low end for climbing hills and coming out of corners.

[Masteryota]

Once I put that in and run it should I make pilot adjustments at all?

The pilot adjustment is pretty general, once you get it running, back the screw out until the engine RPM starts to drop, then go back in about 1/2 turn. Then set your idle speed from there. If it loads up a bit while idling, then go back in in 1/8-1/4 turn at a time.

[2SlickNick]

Thanks MasterYota. soon as midnight hits I will be back on ordering parts LOl. Love direct deposit.

[2SlickNick]

Okay, guys here is where I am at.
ordered 124, 126, and 128 main jets. Ordered 35 pilot

-128 with stock pilot (35) to damn rich. I had to turn a-f screw all the way in to the right to have engine idle appropriately.

-126 main with 38 pilot still to rich couldn't really find a balance there.

124 main with 35 pilot still rich, but had to turn a/f screw almost all the way out (left) for decent idle.

Engine bogged with all those settings.

If I Leave 124 main in and try the 38 pilot; does that larger pilot allow more air in?
wife is making do some chores and cant play in the garage until all 3 kids are in bed.

If that doesn't work I guess I will go smaller on mains huh??

[Miamieddie]

are you adjusting? The pilot? Or did you mean the air/fuel screw.

[2SlickNick]

Air fuel screw.
They are not the same?

[Miamieddie]

Ok you mixed me up when you keep sayin you turn the pilot screw to the right.

[2SlickNick]

Edited it LOL

[Masteryota]

If it too rich, then stick with the smaller pilot jet. Start out again with the smallest main jet again, and run the pilot screw in til it seats, then back it out 1.5 turns and see how it starts. The pilot circuit is for 0-30% throttle, then the main takes over. If it idles ok, then don't mess with the pilot. Run a WOT run and see where you are, if it is close, then stay with that jet. If you have a part throttle bog, then adjust the pilot screw to iron it out, then finalize your idle speed.

[2SlickNick]

Idles fine with 124 and 35.
Wot is bogging. Guess I will try 126 with 35

[Masteryota]

Did you look at the plug even with it bogging? I would try that and adjust from there, I think the 126 might still be a bit rich considering the altitude.

[2SlickNick]

I ran out of new plugs. So, I wiped one off and used the 126 with the 35. It did fair, it took off with normal power and accelerated fine for a few seconds then bogging. I looked at the plug and it started getting a brownish color then a whitish color on very tip of plug.
I am thinking it is starved for gas. I am thinking like CKAU said maybe need bigger fuel filter. Possibly lines too...
I noticed fuel seems to always be close to bottom of filter. Before it used to be full to halfway.
New plug and fuel filter tomorrow for some for trial and error.

[Johnny 5]

If you buggy came with a 108 I would try a 115 or 117. Both our dune 150s came with 114 stock and I tried a 125 with uni filter and stock muffler and engine and it ran worse. The 117.5 jet worked better with that set up. Now with all the mods I have a 125 in the red buggy and a 128 in the blue buggy.

[Danp]

What intake did you use? The length of pipe and type of filter is very important. I had bogging at middle to high throttle until I cut back the intake tube and oiled my filter.

Apparently, the length of pipe shouldn't be more than 6" from carb intake to orphus of filter.

[2SlickNick]

Depending how tomorrows test works out Johnny, I can see myself probably ordering 116, 118, and 120 mains.
I used a 6" pipe and a uni filter DanP

[2SlickNick]

http://www.buggy depot.com/buggy-tech-center/read/150cc/0/18/properly-selecting-and-installing-carburetor-jets.html

Found this. Remove space from buggy and depot

[2SlickNick]

I think I am going to drill a couple holes around the end of the exhaust.

[2SlickNick]

I am not sure what is going on now.
I did drill 3 holes and took off end cap where that had 3 holes (for screws) making 6.
Also bought a large fuel filter.
http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/at...1&d=1379609676
Started with 124, 126, and 128.
Plug was white each time. Weird, yesterday they were black
124- would bog at 33 mph
126- would bog at 38 mph
128- would bog at 43 I never hit my normal 47 mph
I am thinking larger jet.
I put end cap back on covering those holes and not as white of plug.
I guess a 130-134 is where I need to go next. trial and error.

[2SlickNick]

I am losing this battle. Ordered 130,132, and 134. bogging at 30 mph to rich, duh.....
128,126 rich...
gonna try 124 again and then I am sure that will be too rich. Sucks keep spending time and money on this. Ran better stock. Looks like I WILL have to order 122, 120, and 118. duhhhh
Too bad kid n me wont exchange jets. sighhhhh

[BuggyMaster]

Carbid and Helix run notoriously lean from factory. Factory is usually 114. In stock form they like to have a 125. I've done extensive testing with these machines using a wide-band O2 sensor.

Not a single time have I had to change a pilot jet and you shouldn't either. It is very rare that you need to change a pilot jet quite frankly. The first picture that you had of the plug didn't look too bad to tell you the truth. Focus on the tip and the porcelain you see below it. Somewhere I have a picture of a perfect plug on here I'll have to see if I can find it.

American Sportworks carburetors are unique for some reason. Where a lot of machine like a 108 main, if you tried to put that in a Carbide it would blow up due to being lean.

All of our tests were done at 800 ft above sea level so you are not that far off from us. I'm going to have to look at our old threads from when we did all the testing but if I remember right, a UNI and an aftermarket exhaust liked a 150 main jet. While that may seem high, it is a product of the carbs that are put on the carbide and helix. That's what our machine loved and the wide-band backed it up..but again, that was at 800 ft.

For the speedo's, they are notoriously off and the faster you go the farther off they are. We used GPS exclusively to speed test and the fastest one we had did 41mph if I remember right. the Helix was actually faster with the fastest one with same build running 43mph.

We used a 12g slider to give us the best all around performance boost. We gained a little better take off and were able to not lose any top end. Those sliders were the ones that allowed us the 43mph top end test.

[BuggyMaster]

See below for a pic of a perfect plug.

[2SlickNick]

Thanks B.M.
I have been looking at plug top and threads like a shmuck.
My 124 main is not too far from that. Still rich though. Now that I am looking at porcelain.
And still boggy at end of throttle with minimal power

[BuggyMaster]

that's a little rich but like I said...I've seen worse. What is the current main that is in it and what is the current running situation?

[2SlickNick]

The current main is the 124. Take off is okay, past half throttle is weak. Struggles for power.

[BuggyMaster]

What are the current mods?

[Miamieddie]

At that altitude ur motor is starving for more oxygen. The holes you drilled on ur muffler may not be sufficient. I'm thinking (gutting) to allow more air (oxygen) to pass thru for a stronger top end. Don't mess with ur pilot leave as is. I've never had to touch my pilot with any mod I've ever done. You have a good take off and idle right now so gutt ur muffler for a better (stronger) top end. That's just my oppinion only.

[2SlickNick]

Current mods are in my signature. I also took of muffler end cap and drilled 3 additional holes which can be fixed and capped easily.
Really thinking of gutting the muffler. How should I?
Cut end? Cut closer to motor end?

[Masteryota]

As for gutting the muffler, find the seam where the factory welded the end cap on the cylinder, towards the exit of the muffler, and cut there. With the cap off, remove everything inside, then clean up the cuts on the cap and weld it back on the cylinder. With that, you might want to weld up the drilled holes, and take a 1.5" hole saw to the tip and punch out that tiny tail pipe. This is the most common way to do it.

[2SlickNick]

I think I might attempt this tomorrow, thanks for the info.
I am tired of buying jets. I have 124-134 main jets. Those should work I would think.
Do I lose Any bottom end torque on the gutted muffler?

[Miamieddie]

Gutt it like master said its how I did mine. I also went with 11gram sliders. Its the lowest you can go without losing top end. But try it with what you have I think you'll be ok after gutting.

[Masteryota]

Originally Posted by 2SlickNick

Do I lose Any bottom end torque on the gutted muffler?

You might lose a little, but you wont feel it with the CVT, the top end will perform much better with the open pipe and filter. Keep in mind, your neighbors may not like you very well after this, lol.

[2SlickNick]

Okay, thanks. I think I might go for it. Luckily they are good neighbors and they were use to me and my 125cc and 250cc 2 stroke dirt bikes. Even though 4 strokes have a deeper tone compared to the 2 stroke scream.

[Johnny 5]

I gutted my muffler and put a usfa spark arrestor screen in and it was so noisy it hurt my ears even with a helmet on. And the performance went down without the back pressure.

[2SlickNick]

Aww man...I didn't make a mistake doing this. We will see. I will weld it back up soon.

[Miamieddie]

You'll be fine. Gutting it is like putting a high performance exhause on it.

[2SlickNick]

Well, it is gutted. Sounds nice. Still need to jet down, boo..... looks like I will now order the 122,120,118 pack. If that doesn't do it than I am S.O.L.