Upgraded , but still slow

[2SlickNick]

I have a 6.5 hp Manco Vortex kart/buggy and after some up grades it still only goes 25 mph and does not have any torque or pep to make it up inclines.
I bought an after market exhaust and Uni air filter, I then decided to bypass the governor ( I removed governor linkage and made a direct connection from thriottle cable to carb).
Now my Kart just sounds louder, but no increase in performance noted.

Also I notice gas leaking/spilage from carb, mostly noticed after going over rough terrain.
I would appreciate any help at all, Thanks

[Miamieddie]

Lack of power may have to do with carb. You mentioned of it leaking gas. Start by cleaning out ur carb and jets and check on ur float adjustment .. then will move on from there...Eddie.

[2SlickNick]

Thanks Eddie, will do in the morning. Sucks though that I dont think there is an after market carb for the robin subaru engine ex17. Not even sure where exactly to come across carb parts for that. I will give it a whirl in the a.m. and let you know the results.

[2SlickNick]

Well Eddie, j took the carb apart and the o-ring between carb and float bowl does look compromised. I just ordered a new o-ring. I suspect that might be the culprit (slapping my forehead " dohh" ).
Unfortunately I have to wait for a gasket to try it out and see if it continues to leak.
I am unsure how to check float adjustment. It does move freely and seems intact and to work properly.
Also since I bypassed governor without removing internal components that should still be effective, right?

[Miamieddie]

Wait for ur gasket do not touch the float. Ithink you found ur problem...Eddie.

[2SlickNick]

oh yeah, hands off for sure.

[zman007007]

The way I have always checked the float was once you have the carb. off and all gas drained from it turn it upside down and look at the float, hold the carb as level as possible upside down and the float should be level as well as . zman

[2SlickNick]

Excellent, Thanks Zman. Will do. Any input on the governor?

[xlint89]

What kind of gearing do you have on that? Little sprocket, jackshaft if applicable, and axle sprocket.

Do you have a TAV or a centrifugal clutch?

[2SlickNick]

The gearing is stock (don't know what it is).
What do you recomend? I would like torque to make it up inclines and also speed.
Can I have both?

[SLESTAK75]

It's possible that it is governed in more than one way. You should be able to get more. There is a balance to be had. The only way to really have both is with more power from the engine. But it seems that if you hit 25mph with a rev limiter and then removed the rev limiter that it should reach a higher speed. I will post some links to info I found but can not vouch for its validity.

[2SlickNick]

Okay thanks! I just externally bypassed governor to see what she had before I tear open engine and do it that way.

[SLESTAK75]

From what I could tell removal of the arm or the internal parts is necessary , I think the parts on the inside still restrict it. But I am only going on what I'm reading, I have no experience with this engine.

[SLESTAK75]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.dmg&cad=rja

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.dmg&cad=rja

For more you can just look up robin subaru ex-17 on google.

[SLESTAK75]

Though I noticed in some of those posts that they don't produce much power beyond 4500 rpm's. And it is ill advised to rev it past that point with stock parts.

[2SlickNick]

Thanks Dude I appreciate the effort and time . I will read these later.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by 2SlickNick

The gearing is stock (don't know what it is).
What do you recomend? I would like torque to make it up inclines and also speed.
Can I have both?

Can you count the number of teeth on all the sprockets you have?

Can you post a picture of what you have please?


Removing the governor should make it faster, but you usually decrease the longevity of the engine. These engines normally make most torque in the RPM range it's governed for.

[2SlickNick]

Jack shaft has 9 teeth and big crank has maybe 64 approximately

[2SlickNick]

http://buggymasters.com/forum/album....pictureid=2022

[2SlickNick]

i believe my TAv is a 20 series 6 inch

[Miamieddie]

I'm no mechanic so I know nothing about going inside the gear box. Nor what you guys are talking about. With that said. Guys like me try to make things work with just basics. I have a 150 baja reaction it climbs and pulls thru sand and mud top speed is 34/35mph. Now this is my set up. 34 teeth axle sprocket 14 teeth counter sprocket 22in. Rear tires and 11gram sliders. I'm also considering getting a dr2 variator with 10/12 sliders for both worlds. Hope this helps...Eddie.

[2SlickNick]

Ya I wish I got a kart/ buggy with the motorcycle type engines. I got the lawn mower type engine. Next one....

[bear]

9 & 64! sounds like yours is more set up for running on asphalt than off road. I'd definitly get rid of that 64 tooth on your axle! you need a 36 to 41 maybe! but just my thouhgts. bear

[2SlickNick]

so the smaller the crank the more torque and acceleration, right?

[SLESTAK75]

The smaller crank sprocket or larger axle sprocket gives more pull + less speed and vice versa

[bear]

I thought you said you had a 64 tooth axle sprocket and I'd definitly change that! The "Slezman" has it comboed out right for ya!

[SYCARMS]

Just a mention of the govenor. All engines have a power curve which are the rpm range power is made. After a certain rpm no more power is made and operating above this rpm will destroy an engine. If the govenor is set properly it will keep the engine from over reving beyoud the power range.

[2SlickNick]

Thanks guys. I will definetly change that axle sproket down. I need more pull for off road use. I will look for a 41 tooth tonight.

[2SlickNick]

should i do anything with the jack shaft sproket?

[xlint89]

Thanks for getting back to me on that.

The Yerf 3203 uses a 10T jackshaft sprocket and a 60T axle sprocket, so I don't think the gearing is an issue if you have a 9T and 64?

Lets now look at the TAV.

Can you see the TAV open when engine RPM raises, and close when the RPM falls?

What color is the spring, and which hole is the spring set at? There are 3 holes that the spring can be adjusted. The stronger the spring pressure (more preload) the longer it will take for the belt to shift gears.

Have you done a compression test on the engine?

[2SlickNick]

I have to check in the a.m.
Thanks for all the input.

[2SlickNick]

The spring is green. I am unsure of which hole. Do I take it apart to find out? I am waiting on a gasket to start her up and then I can tell you more about Tav movement.

[2SlickNick]

i looked and it is in hole #1 which is made for flat ground. I think i will skip hole 2 and go right for #3.
Now i just have to figure out how to remove driven pulley.

[2SlickNick]

in the future i will probaby get a 7 inch driven pulley

[SLESTAK75]

Sounds like you are getting it figured out.

[2SlickNick]

yes indeed. I just can't seem to remove the bolt for driven pulley. When i do the kart moves forward. I try holding brake, axle while prying bolt off. Still no luck

[SLESTAK75]

Maybe you could get a small oil filter wrench to hold the part just behind the bolt while loosening and have someone also hold the brake. Or something like this tool.... http://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=C...in+pipe+wrench

[2SlickNick]

i'll try something like that thanks

[2SlickNick]

Okay guys, I appreciate everyones 2 cents. It has really helped with my knowledge and the process of improving my Kart.

Quick update: I pretty much had to remove the entire jack shaft to get driven pulley off.
I got pulley apart with a flat head screw driver and snap ring pliers.
I moved the green spring from hole 1 to hole 3.
With me standing on the pulley my snap ring pliers and a rubber mallet I reassembled it.
I will put jack shaft back together tonight.
Hopefully my gaskets for my carb comes tomorrow so I can hopefully see an increase in torque on my test drive.
Will keep you updated.
Thanks again everyone.

[xlint89]

Fingers crossed, hope all goes well for you.

Be sure to still check the compression though. You're not going to make much power with a low compression engine.

[2SlickNick]

Okay. Just need to buy tester.
Fingers crossed.

[bear]

Yea, good luck buddy! Its not always as easy as it looks, is it!!!

[2SlickNick]

It is not. I find myself spending and dreaming more about Karts and buggies then I have dirt bikes; weird... LOL.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by 2SlickNick

Okay. Just need to buy tester.
Fingers crossed.

You can see if any auto parts stores near you "rent" the compression tester VS buying one.

Just make sure the tester fits the small spark plugs, so take one with you to see if it would work before you leave the store.

[x-bird]

Originally Posted by 2SlickNick

It is not. I find myself spending and dreaming more about Karts and buggies then I have dirt bikes; weird... LOL.

You're hooked ... nice knowing you

[bear]

The luantic is in your head!!! lol

[2SlickNick]

Haha, yep.
My wife thinks I am having an affair with the Kart LOL.

[SYCARMS]

She's right you know. You just have to explain to her that it's far cheaper than having another woman on the side, when your with it you'll 90% of the time be home and the most important point to make is it can't get pregnant.

[bear]

Plus its a damn sight cheaper than an extra woman!!!!

[xlint89]

Just don't tell her it's more fun to ride though.......

[2SlickNick]

Lmao!!!!! Too funny, but true!

[bear]

Oh, if only she knew, she'd make you get rid of it!!! lol

[2SlickNick]

This is true. Best thing is it gives me a good time without PMS'ing.

[SLESTAK75]

PMS= Broke Down.

[2SlickNick]

No!!!!
Got the parts put it back together, now kart will not move. I know this is a clutch problem but what????
Please help this is my only dAy off this week to fix this.

[SLESTAK75]

Put it on blocks and see what is working when you hit the gas.

[2SlickNick]

well it has something to do with driver pulley. I think it is the spacing or something. It has a problem engaing, looks like the belt sits low in the driver pulley. But when i give it a lil nudge it helps it go. Then it is fine, but if i push the cart backwards it then causes belt to sit low again.

The carb does not leak anymore YAY.

[bear]

Retrace your steps in disassembly, and reassembly to make sure you did'nt miss something. Sounds like a simple adjustment, but you never know! If all else fails take it apart and start over, yea I know you don't want to hear that, but if I had a dollar for every time I've had to do that while learning about these things!!!

[SLESTAK75]

Is the belt worn out?? That might have had a bit to do with the speed issue.

[2SlickNick]

Belt appears okay

[2SlickNick]

After reading from comet clutch web site, j think I figured out the problem. I didn't preload the spring on the driven pulley. I just placed it in there.
Well hopefully I can fix it in a.m before I go to work and test drive it.

[x-bird]

^Exactly what i was going to ask, a common mistake and a bugger of a pain to get done first try.

[2SlickNick]

Ya, hopefully that is the ticket.
At least I know the procedure LOl

[SLESTAK75]

Cool that you know what it is. Not cool that you have to tear it down again. We've all done it. And will do it again.

[bear]

Yup,yup,yup, More than we'd like to admit!!!

[2SlickNick]

Well, guys it is all put back together. Not much difference in the low end torque since adjust driven pulley. I will continue to try to get the most out of it. Future upgrades will include the 40 tooth large sprocket and a 7 inch driven pulley.
For now I am just enjoying riding it and putting on some fenders.
Thanks for all the help my fellow Buggy Masters.

[2SlickNick]

Okay! I am gonna leave the clutch alone for now, but did just ordered a 40 tooth sprocket. That should get me up these hills.

[xlint89]

So adjusting the clutch spring preload (stronger) didn't make a difference?

Did you ever do a compression test?

Does that engine have valves that can be adjusted?

[2SlickNick]

I ordered a compression tester( waiting on it too).
I did reload it again and the cam now floats between the buttons, so i ordered a new green spring thinking that might help more.
The valves can be adjusted, i saw a video of how to do it. I might atempt that one day.

[xlint89]

Try adjusting your valves and see if that helps your engine performance.

Something is not right with the TAV. The cam should always be resting on the buttons.

Here is some good info that should help.

http://www.*****************/asymapp.htm


http://www.key-ideas.com/TC-Sprocket-Change.htm


http://www.diygokarts.com/vb/showthread.php?p=19866






Here's how to remove a governor if you're still interested.

http://buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69

[2SlickNick]

Thanks for the links Xlint. very helpful.

[2SlickNick]

well i got ther axle and large sproket off easily. my nine tooth jackshaft sprocket is ground down to the nubs.
I am nonw installing the much smaller 40 tooth axle sprocket tonight.
Should i get a 10T or 9T jack sprocket.

[xlint89]

Can you get both and see which works best?

[2SlickNick]

Money is tight. Probably not.

[bear]

If it's a money thing, I'd go with the 10t, as the best compromise!

[2SlickNick]

I ordered the 9t last night LOL. I figure i will ose 20% of speed and gain 20% torque. Right?

[bear]

Yeah, and torgue is good!!!

[1170wolves]

How did the gearing work out for you?

[2SlickNick]

Gearing was okay, it did have more torque for the hills if I remember correctly. I don't have that kart anymore. I kept speed And gained some torque. Not a huge wow but a notice one.

[1170wolves]

I just bought one for my son and looking for ideas. Did you use the 7" driver? I see the yerf dog comes with a 7"

[2SlickNick]

no. i stuck with the stock TAV