Marauder - work on trails at all?

[rctoyguy]

I bought an American Sportworks Marauder for my son for Christmas - so far it has only been driven a couple of times in a parking lot (haven't had a chance to get to the trails with it).

I have not been blown away by it's performance - to the point that I've already called the shop where I bought it asking about returns (shop owner not really happy with that thought). I *might* be able to talk him into letting me trade it in for a Zircon, but that'll add several hundred dollars to the mix.

If I can unload the Marauder, would I be better off with something like a TrailMaster 150, or do all of the ~$1500 karts perform about the same?

I don't expect my son to be able to keep up with a 300cc 4 wheeler on the trails, but how off-road worthy should I be expecting from one of these karts?

I'm afraid that if I put it on a trail, the option of returning it will be even harder - right now it's in condition that you can't tell it's even been started.

[x-bird]

looking at the specs on the two I'd say go for it. the 150 should be better on the trails, larger tires, nearly double the overall load capacity, more power and much more upgradable performance-wise in the engine department.

[rctoyguy]

I guess what sold me on the marauder is that engine is bigger (208 vs 150) and that it was about $800 less.

[Dirtroad]

Before buying anything always always always do some research. A google search and/or asking the dealer some questions would have helped a ton.

The size of an engine really dont mean anything. The fact that the 208cc was cheaper by almost a grand should have been a red flag.

[rctoyguy]

I thought I had done enough research... but obviously not. The sales guy convinced me the extra money for the Zircon was really just getting me reverse and nicer shocks. He swore the speed/power/performance between the 2 would be very similar. Now I don't believe that. I guess I thought that if anything the 208cc would be better than the 150 - bigger is better with motors, right? LOL (said the guy that drives an ecoboost F150)

[x-bird]

Well, at least you have a point to make a stand on with the sales guy. the industrial type engines, even though they're bigger volume, operate in a much narrower powerband with peak hp usually inth e low to mid 3000 rpm range. Good for bottom end grunt, but they run out of breath a lot faster. The gy6 engines rev double that or more with a much broader powerband. Add in all the CVT tuning you can do and plenty of aftermarket performance mods and they can be come veritable monsters for their size. I'd clean it up, bring it back and spend the money on the upgrade.

[rctoyguy]

I thought the marauder was the one with the gy6 motor - I obviously am clueless - how do you know one from the other?

[x-bird]

search "gy6" on e-bay, web browser etc. you'll get plenty of hits lol. zircon and carbide are gy6s, marauder and black widow use "industrial" type engines. these are horizontal shaft lawnmower type engines that use either a centrifugal clutch or a driver clutch with a separate jackshafted pulley to give a variable drive. GY6s are "lay-down" cylinder configuration with a CV transmission incorporated into them.

[Dirtroad]

If the dealer talked you into the marauder using bad info i would us that as leverage to return it.

Clean it up real nice and bring it back, offer to pay the difference for the zircon. If he has a carbide thats what i would get but im biased.

[rctoyguy]

Had it at the local atv park a couple of times now (returning it isn't going to be an option) and I'm not happy with its performance, really at all.
Actually thinking about a motor swap.. Or can y'all recommend anything I could do to this rig to get more power out of it? Top end speed isn't as much of an issue as just not being able to pull hills, etc.

[2SlickNick]

The marauder seems to have a similar style to the ASW Zircon. Maybe you could just switch out the rear swing arm / sub frame. Maybe just weld some brackets on. Maybe just buy a 150 project buggy and build that up. My ASW Carbide 150 is 24" from outside bracket to outside bracket. I started a thread on this before when I came to the realization a lawn mower type engine had little torque.
http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4152

[Dirtroad]

Originally Posted by rctoyguy

Had it at the local atv park a couple of times now (returning it isn't going to be an option) and I'm not happy with its performance, really at all.
Actually thinking about a motor swap.. Or can y'all recommend anything I could do to this rig to get more power out of it? Top end speed isn't as much of an issue as just not being able to pull hills, etc.

It is what it is.

It wouldnt be worth the cost or time to do an engine swap.

[2SlickNick]

Originally Posted by Dirtroad

It is what it is.

It wouldnt be worth the cost or time to do an engine swap.

True.... Only other option would be to put a 10 hp engine in but, that still is not worth it. Oh well. You live and you learn.

[Masteryota]

Originally Posted by Dirtroad

It is what it is.

It wouldnt be worth the cost or time to do an engine swap.

I have to agree here. It would be easier and cheaper in the long run to buy something bigger, with say, a GY6 style engine and better front end. The industrial engines just are not cut out for our type of riding.

Depending on what part is unsatisfactory, you can get more power out of those 6-8hp engines, and make them rev much higher, but at the cost of money and reliability. Obviously you also need to change the CVT to cope with the additional power, but it depends on what you want to spend.

If it were me, I would clean up the one you got, and sell it. Try to make back as much as possible and invest it into what you really want.

[x-bird]

if it's running a comet style TAV you can change the driven spring and it's position setting, likewise you can also go to a 7 inch (diameter) if it's a 6 inch driven. After that, it's changes to the sprockets to alter the final ratio. those are all the cheaper methods. you can also plunk in a bigger engine.

[rctoyguy]

This is me following it last weekend... Of course this is the best it "performed" the entire day - I didn't keep the video where I had to push it with my 4 wheeler to get over some of these hills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9l-t...lVsTQg&index=1

[Dirtroad]

Looks like it performs the way that it should for what it is.

[rctoyguy]

I was afraid you'd say that. LOL.. I can't decide if I want to sink money into this one or just cut my losses and move on to a nicer kart/buggy or a 4wheeler. Guess I need to determine that first.
Without checking on anything except engine prices, I found a (I think) 13hp 18lbft motor for like $350 at harbor freight.. This is a 6.5hp 9lbft I think... I'd give $350 to double the power and torque without hesitating if that's all it took.

[Masteryota]

Originally Posted by rctoyguy

I was afraid you'd say that. LOL.. I can't decide if I want to sink money into this one or just cut my losses and move on to a nicer kart/buggy or a 4wheeler. Guess I need to determine that first.
Without checking on anything except engine prices, I found a (I think) 13hp 18lbft motor for like $350 at harbor freight.. This is a 6.5hp 9lbft I think... I'd give $350 to double the power and torque without hesitating if that's all it took.

You have to be careful with the engine upgrades like that. Most times the CVT/torque converter does not interchange due to crankshaft size. The 2.5-7hp engines are normally 3/4" shaft, where just about anything above that is a 1" shaft. there are TAV units out there for 1" shafts, but they get kinda pricey. Should you decide to go with a clutch, they too, are expensive, and it really limits your speed. I'm not sure what CVT you have on the engine, but the limit for most smaller(30 series) units is around 8hp, better than that, and you need to look at a 40 series or similar.

The biggest issue so far, is the CVT. If you want to drop a couple bills into the engine, then do some performance mods. If I were to go this route, I would get a HF coupon and wait till the 8hp engine goes on sale for $100, then drop the remaining $250 of said budget into performance mods. I have seen the predators run around 12-16hp with minimal mods(intake, exhaust, cam, rod and flywheel). Plus, if you blow it, you got that sweet no questions asked warranty, just take reinstall the stock parts, and exchange. I know this works, as I work with a kart racer, they do this for years, and only pay for the original engine. BTW, the 212cc predators can push 20+hp if you want to get nasty, but you would have to change over to methanol for that....

I still stand by my original statement. Invest in what you want, not make something into what you want.

[zman007007]

now that the secret is out they will be checking all these engines closer. lol

[zman007007]

any type of lawnmower engine you buy is only going to turn about 3600 rpms stock no matter what size it says the hp is. about half of what a gy6 turns. stock.

[Masteryota]

Originally Posted by zman007007

any type of lawnmower engine you buy is only going to turn about 3600 rpms stock no matter what size it says the hp is. about half of what a gy6 turns. stock.

Correct, in stock form. If you replace the rod, flywheel and valve springs, you can easily turn it up to 8k RPM without failure, 5600 if you don't change the springs. I thought about doing the same thing with my Yerf, but decided I want a gear box instead of a CVT.

[x-bird]

both dirt road ans masteryota are spot on in their comments. ride-wise, it looked to be doing what it's designed to do. measure the outside diameter of the driven pulley. if it's a 6-inch, putting a 7-inch on it will give it more initial pull for the hills without cutting the top speed too much. sprocket changes will do the same but affect the top speed more.

[rctoyguy]

After just "living with it" till now - I sold the Marauder today. I now see a Hammerhead GT150 local for $800. Not a GTS, just a GT150. Must be an older model sine I don't see that listed on HH website.

What can you guys tell me about a HH GT150?

[bear]

GT is the older model, but a really good buggy, check to see what year it is for sure. HH made 2 different versions of they're 150 engines, but you shouldn't have any trouble getting what you need for either one!