Trying to build a more powerful cart/buggy

[matt0man123]

How's it going I am new to the forum and just wanted to get your ideas on where I should go with my cart. I have the cart and have the engine in mind but I don't know what to do in between. Picture of the cart is attached. I am looking at getting the 670CC predator motor form harbor freight.

I have been researching clutches for the kart but cannot find one to hold the power. I am also looking on making this cart bigger by stretching it and making it a little wider where the seats sit.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[matt0man123]

here is a picture of the engine that is in it now. its a small 6 hp engine

[tkeagle]

Looks like a 150cc. And depending on all the modes that would need to be done to put a bigger one in it, might look at rebuilding, and moding current engine. If it is a 150cc, with all the modes that can be done with it, be surprised what kind of HP you can get out of them, and much less work. Is it a gy6 150cc engine?

[matt0man123]

Yes I'm pretty sure it is. Its a little to small for me so I was going to cut the frame and extend it a little. I'm short on money so I can't go buy a bigger one right now. So I was looking at modifying this one to suit me. What kind of mods could I do to make it a little more fun for my wife and I?

[tkeagle]

There are bore kits, and all kinds of modes in the clutches to make it a lower end engine or higher end. I don't have the big stuff in my 150cc like some of these guys in this forum. I'm 240 lbs, and wife is 100 lbs. And my 150cc gets us around pretty damn good. Kids have a ball in it. But if your looking for real high speed, like 50 or 60 mph. then might have a problem getting it there. But if you want it to play around. Good hill climbing and off road type stuff. 30 to 40 mph, depending on how you set it up, and weight, then think your better off, moding up the 150cc, and be money, and time ahead.
Depending on what type of 150cc you have, you can almost mod everything on that engine and CVT trani. intake, carb, exhaust, CVT clutches. Electrical, high output spark. upgrade piston size and heads for a very reasonable price. And they can go threw hell.
If not got much money, might look into more about the engine in it. And if it's a 150cc, most are rated at around 9 hp I thought, or close. After modes, not sure how much can get it up to, but they hold their own. That for sure. Find the id# on the engine. Do some searches for it, and can find almost anything you need to do, to replace, or upgrade on youtube. 150cc are very popular, in many applications. and very easy to work on, if just have some basic knowagle. And youtube will give you tons of info on them.
Find the ID# on the engine. or take pic of it, and post it. Will give better idea what kind of 150cc it is.

[tkeagle]

Moding the Intake, carb, and exhaust will prob. give you best bang for the buck. And changing out the rollers. Air intake, and carb, can get pretty cheap. Depending on what route you go on exhaust, can be little more pricey. Depending. But it really opens up the engine, to what it can do. Changing roller weights, pretty damn cheap also, if say, you want more lower end power. Lighten the weights. good set for around $20.00 Rollers or sliders. upgrading the clutches helps also, if your already going to be inside the case for the rollers. Can get High out put CDI, Coil, and spark plug under $40 I think. or close to.

[matt0man123]

Thank you for the insight I will look into getting that ID #

[SYCARMS]

The GY6 engine in most manuals are rated anywhere from 9-14 HP but these readings are engine HP. Hp at the axle will be between 5 and 8 HP. Consider these buggies steer and handle pretty well. By adding length and width you will be throwing the steering and suspension out of wack. This is especially true with the length. You can get anywhere from 10-20 HP at the rear axle but this is determined by budget. You will want to start with an open air filter and rejetting of the carb as well as opening up the exhaust a bit. This is the cheapest first step, than you can do a simple CVT tune. In all reality if you want a Corvette than buy a Corvette but if you are on a budget you don't want to buy Vega and then make a Corvette out of it for you will put a lot more money into it. If the budget is small you are cheaper living with the Vega and building it to it's potential. You can give me a call and I can give you the best bang for your buck within your budget.662-301-1563

[xlint89]

I agree.

If you were to go with a Predator engine, you then will need a different clutch. That leads to different gearing which leads to a Franken buggy.

The GY6 clone engines (which you have) have a ton of mods available at relatively cheap prices. (you get what you pay for, so cheapest isn't always best) Plus it has the CVT clutch integrated into it. Which also is reverse capable if you don't have it already. (with the Predator, you will lose that option) Lastly, you have internal gearing that can be changed pretty easily/cheaply too. Overall the GY6 is a nice options package power plant.

As suggested above ^^^ start with the simple and cheap stuff first. You can gain a good amount of improvement from doing a couple things.

1. Open air filter like an UNI. ($25ish)

2. Port match your intake manifold to cylinder. (FREE) You'd be surprised how far off these mass produced parts can be

3. Port match your exhaust pipe to cylinder. (FREE) Same as above

4. Consider opening up the muffler to breathe a little better (FREE) This will make the buggy a little louder

5. Rejet the carb for the extra air your engine will now move ($25ish)

6. Adjust your valves (FREE) Engine runs better when properly adjusted (FREE)

7. Consider installing a new camshaft too ($30-50) An A12 is a good cam for these buggies

8. Check and clean your CVT (FREE) Make sure everything is working as it should. Pay close attention to wear on your variator rollers or sliders.

9. Check and/or replace your chassis bearings. ($50?) A buggy that rolls easily will free up power


Just for reference, http://buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4191

Here's a list of results from mods I did in post #11. http://buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2670

[matt0man123]

Thank you!! I really appreciate all the help =) especially that post you linked to xlint89

[tkeagle]

Those 2 know what they talking about. Got a lot of good advise from them. Pretty sure you'll be happier, and money/time ahead if you stick with the gy6.
Anything you get, you'll half to try, and see how it works out. As stated before, you get what you pay for. However, there is the effect of just because you pay for the best, doesn't mean it is. I don't recall what it was, or name of it, but bought a decent rear clutch, (I thought) for about $150.00. Noticed right away, that wasn't doing as good as stock. upgraded the coil, and small springs to yellow, or 1500rpm. put 10g sliders in it.
That's pretty low geared for most ppl, but I got a lot of hills where I ride.
So did a test. put buggy against a large trash can at shop, and did a burn out on the concrete slab. With the higher priced clutch, it kind of started out slow, and really didn't give a good kick. Plus, think I could smell clutch. And hardly turned the tires over.
Then went back. put the stock clutch in, just put in a yellow big spring, and stayed with stock smaller springs.

here is a link from what I got out of that test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMv_...ature=youtu.be

Was pretty clear which was better. Yes, didn't record the first test.
The (higher priced clutch) when looked at it, was barely making contact on the pads. I contacted the company. Gave them pics, to show how little contact it was making. They said I installed it wrong, and basicly told me to "F" off. So was out $150.00.
I could have bought a nice set of new tires for that, or rims.
Point is, when buying this stuff, just because it says HIGH PERFORMANCE, doesn't mean crap!!!! If question anything, ask up on this forum. You'll get honest feed back. And I know I would have saved a lot of money and time, if I joined this forum before I started my buggy.
Sycarms has a lot of parts, and know how. He will openly talk to you on the phone, and give you solid advise. As well as many others, that been doing it for years.

[matt0man123]

Thanks tkeagle! I have been doing some research today and found a new carb with a 26 mm manifold intake performance CDI and coil for cheap I will buy that and put an aftermarket K&N style air filter up higher on the buggy. Will I need to upgrade the jets in the new carb right away with just a performance CDI and air intake?

[matt0man123]

I couldn't believe how inexpensive it was to upgrade this engine!!!

[tkeagle]

It's been a question, if a higher performance Coil and CDI makes that big of a difference. But they don't cost much either way. Air intake will make a difference. As stated up above, port and polishing will help also, but pretty much need to pull the engine for that. Not hard to do, but will take time.
The Coil, and CDI, some argue say not any difference. One of those points I was trying to make above. However, either way, they are cheap, for performance or stock. So really no big deal to go with the performance. Sycarms and I have had this talk, so he could prob. lead you in right direction, on what a better CDI and Coil would be.
As you add modes or upgrades to the engine, jetting will need to be done. Other ppl on this forum, could give better advise. But pretty much, once you get it running, and running decent. Then do some spark plug checks. Adjust your jetting from there. Again, not sure if need to rejet right away, with that done, but could be wrong. Where you live, plays a factor in it to.
Yes, they are inexpensive, compared to a lot of engines. And are able to get enough HP, that most ppl are happy with. And stated above, if don't have an internal reverse. There are after market external ones that can put on as a upgrade. They pretty cool little engines. And very easy to work on. cant say it enough (youtube) .

[xlint89]

I agree with TK.

I bought the $100 (expensive) Dr. Pulley variator and gained NOTHING. Sold it and went back to stock.

I run stock clutch in mine with no problems.

I run stock CDI in mine with no problem either. I do have the $40 NCY which did help smooth out the idle, but really no big gain anywhere else.

Coil IS one of those you get what you pay for parts. If you bought one of those no name orange and cheap "performance" coils, don't expect too much. Mine didn't last that long before failing. After that, bought a Bando brand coil from Tom (Syc powersports) and haven't had a problem.

You will most likely need to change jets in the new carb as they come with a variety of jets from what ever "factory" they came from. Some don't even have the jets marked what size they are.

As mentioned before, do all your air/fuel mods first before re-jetting. Otherwise you will need to rejet every time you change something in the air/fuel/exhaust.

Take the time to port match the new intake manifold. What that means is make sure the intake manifold hole mates up to the cylinder intake port hole perfectly. No "lips", ledge, or obstruction for the air to trip over entering the cylinder.

Do the same thing with the exhaust pipe.

You'd be surprised how far off they can be from the factory.