TrailMaster 300 XRX, grinding into gear and whine sound?

[omii]

I purchased this TM300XRX in December 2014 making it 18 months old. It was maintained to spec. After 5 hours and then every 10 after that. It is stored in a heated/cooled garage.

From the beginning the gear selector would randomly grind (infrequently, 1 out of 20~40 gear changes). When it grinded I'd just put it back to neutral and then back to gear (forward or reverse) and it'd be fine.

I just went to perform seasonal tasks, changing coolant, oil, spark plug, dipped air filter in non flammable cleaner, tightening all bolts in sight, battery on maintainer and fresh shell 94oct.

Took about 7 attempts to start it but it finally started and idled. I let it idle for 10min, revving a bit.

It's still grinding randomly. Also, now it seems to have a pronounced whine as it picks up speed. The kind of sound gears make when they're too close or far apart. Basically it sounds like a mix between any full size car that is well past needing an oil change (like 15k miles) and/or more like exactly what a radio controlled car sounds like accelerating and decelerating.

Any ideas on what would make the gear selector (forward, neutral, reverse) grind? Or anyone know what this new sound might be that goes higher in pitch as it accelerates? My small engine guy thinks the clutch plates might need spacing adjustment. I'm really interested in this new radio controlled car sound it has now.

I don't know how to tell exactly how many miles or hours there are but I do keep pretty close hourly mental notes. It has, despite being 18 months old, less than 40 hours. My notes say 37 hours. We just never have time to drive.

Thanks for any tips on this Yamaha scooter in disguise!

Edit:

Forgot one more question that might have some bearing. In the manual in specification (page 11) under engine it says lubrication oil: 15W 40s/f. Then on page 17 and after in the maintenance section it says remove oil and replace with 30oz of 10W 40... I put in Rotella T 15W 40 diesel grade oil. I have 2 cars so I totally forgot if I put 15W40 in it previously or 10W40.

Does anyone know what the right oil is? If I put the thicker 15W40 in and it should have 10W40, could that cause the noise? Harm the engine? I ran it tonight about 20min. 10 in idle, 10 up and down the street. Grinded once and whined on accel/decel.

[GX150]

Gears grind if your rpm is above idle or you are moving when trying to shift. These gears are not synchronized and must not be moving when you move the shifter.

[omii]

I don't have a tach so I can't tell my idle RPM but I haven't adjusted it from factory. It idles pretty low in my opinion. No whining sound, just a smooth low idle. Maybe I need to adjust it even lower?

I'm definitely not moving, foot fully on the brake. My other (first) kart is a kandi and it won't start without a very firm foot on the brake and in neutral. I'm pretty OCD about brake, ignition, then off the brake while it idles. Then brake, gear select and go. Still grinds.

Any other reason it might grind from brand new to this day? Tranny is a CVT if it matters.

Thanks!

[GX150]

If idle is low, the only other thing that could cause the final transmission to spin when stopped is a problem with the CVT. Either the variator is not fully opening or the clutch arm springs are not keeping the pads off the drum.

[OLDKID]

First off , I know nothing about your particular machine . I'm only familiar with the 150 buggy's . Seems like you're on the ball with maintenance , but in your detailed list you mentioned nothing regarding trans/gearbox lubricant . The 150's take 90wt. Gear Lube in the CVT .

[omii]

I realize it's very hard to remote diagnose, no easier than a car really.

The buggy has less than 40 hours on it and it states in the manual to replace the gearbox oil after 3000km (1864 miles). I'm at half that (if I were driving 30mph the entire time I used the buggy). Does the gear box oil season or break down like gas and that's the reason you suggest changing it?

Anyone familiar with changing gearbox oil, I could really use some help locating the fill bolt for the gear box. Here is a picture from the manual which at least shows the gear box drain plug but not the fill plug (of course):


That drain plug (#22) doesn't appear to show the location in the picture as much as just what size it is. It's a bit high in the picture to be a drain, but I'm guessing.

This is what the manual states for "gearbox oil":

DRIVE COMPONENTS
Gear box oil MoS2 & W -2DW-4D

Does this mean it needs both (?) or that it can use either of these? I've seen many references to MoS2 on videos/forums/sites but the -2DW-4D is a bit confusing to a newbie like me

Once I locate the unicorn of a fill plug I'll be happy to try replacing the gearbox oil up to the bottom of that fill plug bolt hole and see if the whining goes away. Once..... I locate it .

Thanks!

[GX150]

Typically the fill plug is level with the output shaft and gear oil is added until it reaches the bottom of the fill plug. The final transmission between the clutch and reverse assembly may have its own oil reservoir too...

[omii]

I will have to actually get my eyeballs on it tomorrow (it's at a remote location).

Do you have any insights on the oil types it's mentioning in the manual? Such as you mention the clutch / rear assembly may have separate oil. Might this be why they seem to mention 2 oils? And if so, is there any standard on which oil goes in which part? This is what I mean by the manual is entirely useless. The manual actually has zero information on changing the gearbox oil except mentioning it should be changed in a chart as I mentioned at 3000km...

Thanks for the tips!

[OLDKID]

My concerns would be : the crappy Chinese oil that probably came in it , and or if it was shipped dry and assembler never filled it . Regardless new machines always requires an early fluid change / contaminants' from new parts wearing in . I would think 5 - 10 hours or 50 - 100 miles . I've run across 150's that were bone dry from the day they were purchased . Pull the drain plug ..... I hope there's some thing in there . Good Luck ! SYCARM'S could probably steer you straight on acceptable type , He's a distributor / Dealer .

[GX150]

Most 10W-40 motor oil will work on your water cooled engine. It does not use a wet clutch, so you do not need the more expensive motorcycle oil. 75w-90 or 80w-90 gear oil works well in the the final gearbox and in your reverse gearbox. Some reverse assemblies are greased instead of oiled, so don't let conflicting information confuse you.

[OLDKID]

Drain into a clean container so you can examine the old oil for metal , shavings , etc. Hopefully NO TEETH !

[OLDKID]

The drain plug should be evident . On most 150's the drain and fill plugs on the CVT are 10 mm head similar to the bolts that hold the side cover on , but with a thicker sealing washer . And the location usually has a thicker boss . Who knows , maybe you have to measure and fill through the vent ?
I recently bought a lawn mower with a Briggs & Stratton engine and ........
NO DRAIN PLUG , GOTTA FLIP IT UPSIDE DOWN TO DRAIN ...... As far as your exploded view , that's only 1/2 of the case the drain plug location might be on the other case half .

[omii]

OLDKID ~ This buggy is 18 months old as mentioned with 37 hours on it. The oil was changed at 5 hours use (per manual) and every 10 hours since. So at 5hr, 15hr, 25hr, 35hr, and now 37hr because it sat in a garage for winter (6ish months) and I just wanted to change it.

When it was brand new shipped to me, it did already have coolant and oil in it. I replaced just the oil as the coolant was just fine 50/50. Aside that, after finishing assembly (engine/tranny/lower frame/axels were all pre-assembled), the engine had electrical issues. Kept shorting out if you moved the wires at all. Ended up being the magneto wire was in the way of the flywheel and cut into it. They sent out a new magneto and wire harness and we fixed that. Ran like a top ever since, but it took a LOT of diagnosing to find that.

The point of that being when the engine was new and misbehaving, we considered any part of it to be the culprit. The first thing done was adjusting the idle higher incase it was just stalling. To my knowledge we never turned it back down, even though it really sounds like it's close to the stall line on the slow idle it has. I just hope it didn't rip up much metal in the gearbox . I'll find out when my engine guy can make another house call and change out the gearbox oil sometime this week, but I need to figure out what oil even goes in this thing..

I need to locate the fill. But you're right, most videos I've seen of ATVs changing gearbox oil had the bolts very close to each other and the fill bolt was extra large with a rubber washer. I really hope it's not on the clutch side but at this point, I bet it is..

I REALLY don't want to tip this sucker on it's side to drain it haha. It's like 800lb...

Thanks for the heads up on SYCARM

GX150 ~ I thought 10W40 was fine as well, especially for winters sake so the viscosity won't be so crazy I need to heat it with a heat lamp to get the oil loose to start..

Being new to this, saying it needs one of 2 different oils and then the reverse might be greased IS confusing me haha. I'm hoping someone pops up who has the 300 XRX. It's been out a long time. I guess it's not quite that popular.

Thanks for the 10W40 tip!

[omii]

Wanted to put these facts in it's own message (not trying to pop the thread up).

I talked to BV Powersports themselves on the TrailMaster 300 XRX. Hopefully someone searching like I was will find this useful as many sites have misleading or confusing information:

Engine Oil: 15W30 is best, 10W40 is usable but not as good. This unit ships with "shipping oil" and you are expected to immediately change the engine oil upon receiving a new unit.
Gearbox Oil: MoS2&W-2WD-4D means 80w90 and it has a single gearbox (reverse is in the same box). They have oil shipped in it but recommend changing it immediately incase any dirt/debris are in there from manufacturing. Here is a couple pages BVP sent me on engine and gearbox bolt locations: http://ertp.com/docs/TrailMaster_300...t_location.pdf. NOTE: This unit often ships with NO gearbox oil!
Max Capacity: 500LB (this can be in one seat or spread out between 2 seats and rack, it's all fine, just do not exceed 500LB)

Hope this helps someone!

[OLDKID]

Been following this thread , curious as to end result . Since you're considering selling it I can only assume the worst . Did Sun Yung Ming ship it with no CVT oil , Is oil full of bearings and gear remnants ? I have considered buying one of these as I'm sure others out here as well . As you can tell we tend to share helpful information without the B.S. on this forum . A Head's Up on potential transmission problems would be beneficial to many folks out here , and appreciated .

[omii]

I'm selling it because 'tis the season before summer and my son is 8. He can barely reach the pedals with the seat forward. It's just too much machine for him. So better to transform it into something else before putting any more use on it. I bought it on the net. I had no idea how large or torquey it would be.

I will post back with gear oil discoveries but that'll most likely be next week. My engine guy comes on Sundays. And if it was only the oil that needed changing I'd do it but we need to do a few more prep steps to finish it. Like the back lights are notorious for flickering. If you push the wires in the lights they're fine. So either running new crimped wires or if the wire into the light itself is just too weak, gotta order new lights and splice in. Just finishing touches. If you watch some youtube vids on 300XRX half of them have no back lights or just 1 working haha.

Or if we find lots of metal or teeth, some gear replacement too ><. I have a brand new clutch they sent me, might pop that on just for fun.

[Gummerfan]

I bought our Trailmasters two years ago for Christmas. A 150xrx for our 10yr old (had to add some blocks to her pedals, but she loves the buggy) and a 300xrx for, well, me. We bought ours through a local motorsports dealer and they did an outstanding job on the assembly, including changing all the fluids. I don't even know offhand how many hours/miles the 300 has on it (too lazy to go out and check the meter right now lol) But other than replacing a hub just recently I've never had a problem with either buggy outside of routine stuff. My wife takes the 300 down the road to her fishing hole at least 4 times a week.
When putting it in gear, are you revving the engine? Let the engine idle, put it in gear, put one foot on the brake and s l o w l y apply the accelerator until the clutch engages.
If you do a web search for "300xrx manual" or "300 xrx parts list" you can find some links to downloadable manuals in pdf. One is done by an owner and is better than the factory manual since he includes his own observations and experiences.
Funny thing about the taillights. Mine frequently blows the right (passenger side) brake light. I noticed the last time that the inner bracket was almost broken in two, probably a combination of flimsy steel and vibration. I built it back up with some steel epoxy putty and so far, so good. One owner bought a set of trailer lights and just replaced the stock units with those.
And yeah, the 300 is a bit too much buggy for an 8 yr old. The 150 would be a better fit, and it's a fun buggy for grownups as well. I get a giggle when I drive my daughter's 150 because it's a lot lighter and more nimble than the 300. :-D

[omii]

I bought mine not last Christmas but the previous one so I believe we bought at the same time

The whole unit was put together pretty easily, just was a little tedious with all the double sided bolts and ate a few battery packs on the ratchet. The engine is another story altogether.

I'm not revving the engine putting it into gear (with the gas pedal), I've driven manual tranny mustangs most of my life so I know not to do that. However through the thread it was mentioned my idle is set too high, and it is exactly the same as hitting the gas pedal a pinch. The engine idle needs to be lowered.

Also mentioned in this thread, I have to take the CVT cover off and see if the CVT is engaged too early. If it is, I have a spare variator because it used to take a ton of RPM to get the kart moving, as if the weights in the variator were stuck. After some high RPMs it would engage but be like starting in 3rd gear with no torque. After we replaced the magneto, for some reason that problem went away. TM sent me a spare clutch and variator that I still have new so if it gives me any issues, I already have parts xD. I don't have a spare belt though.

Interesting info on the "user" created owners manual. That makes me want to make one as well haha. I have plenty of memories of 15 hours into engine diagnosing.. I will try to find that manual just for fun

I have a 110cc kandi KD49FM5-E that he fits in well, I just don't. That's why I opted for what I thought was just a little bigger kart. That and the tranny isn't a torque converter, it feels like it's a single gear. Starts very low torque and gains it a lot in mid to high range. It comes as a 3-gear by default and I really think it needed those 3 gears. The auto is just... so... slow.... But the TM300XRX makes up for that . I should just tie off the smaller car to the TM's hitch and pull it...

Thanks for the manual tip!

[omii]

Just a small update. I updated Post #14 to warn people of it, but this buggy comes with no gearbox oil from factory! So it's been driving for 56 miles (that's the odometer reading) with no gearbox oil! AWESOME!

Not a fun find. This week we replaced the gearbox oil 4 times so far with minor driving to let the oil toss around the gearbox. It's been coming out dirty and is lightening up. It's dirty in there. There's tiny grains (sand or smaller) and some may be metal. I shine a light very close to the oil to make out anything shiny, almost none. Unless metal can turn black (severe oil-less friction?) it's just very dirty. It goes in gear with no issues and there's no slipping.

We did other tweaks like adjusted the idle down a bit and it really idles a lot better. The lights are just wires that needed to be screw tightened, yada. No gearbox grinding at all anymore. Obviously no gearbox oil is a problem haha..

I have enough left to change it 8 more times.. Just rinse and repeating changing the gearbox oil until it's clear as honey. Then I'll take it apart and have a look at the gears.

The shaking is still pretty irritating. The whole dashboard is shaking like crazy and the steering wheel gets it the worst. The exhaust is vibrating pretty hard as normal. It's clamped directly to the frame, metal to metal. The inside of the bracket has about 1mm of rubber around it but where it attaches has zero absorbtion.

Has anyone else had an exhaust clamp like this and found a way to tame down the vibrations?

Here's the clamp:


Here's how it sits attached to the buggy:


There's room for a bigger bolt at the top and I think putting in some (rubber? silicone? other?) high thermal tolerant shock absorbing material on it where the clamp bolts in it will dampen it, at least a small amount.

Any other ideas? Different clamp? Hire a firefighter to sit on it?

[GX150]

Use a muffler donut between the clamp and frame. Look at Hammerhead 250's to see how they do it.

[omii]

Just so I have a general idea of what I'm looking for, does it go between the clamp bolt and the frame essentially how a car hangs exhaust?

The way I was describing bolting rubber into the clamp still keeps the clamp and frame bolted tight so it makes a lot of sense to hang it and separate them as long as the exhaust doesnt flip around and start banging things.

[Gummerfan]

Because of this thread, I decided to change my gear oil today. While I had the chain guard off and was poking around down there, I noticed that one of the sprocket bolts was missing (THAT'S what that bolt I found on the garage floor was!) and the other three were loose. I replaced the missing bolt and tightened everything back up. Good thing I caught it before it failed on the trail!

[omii]

They really mean it in the manual pre-drive checklist when they say check ... every single bolt. Glad you found that!

Still running it and tossing oil around, almost all the dirt out. Then gear inspection time which looks like a real PITA to gain access to it.

[Gummerfan]

What sucks is I didn't have any Loctite with me, so now I get to do it again. :-D

[omii]

No worries, I'm sure you'll find another bolt loose when you go do it . They unscrew themselves......

[omii]

GX150 - Can you please give me a little hand with what the Hammerhead 250 users do regarding this exhaust donut? I have looked far and wide and in all the exhausts on that vehicle I can find, OEM and mods, I do not see anything using the word 'donut', and I'm not just looking for that.

The TM300XRX already comes with rubber inside the clamp that holds it on but that rubber only touches the muffler. Same on the Hammerhead SS250 from their manual, so I know you're not talking about something stock.

The only parts I've even seen referred to as donuts are gaskets where the header is connected and that's not it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[omii]

Ah don't matter now. Took a shot at selling it for a reasonable price (2500.. Not badfor 18 months old, 3800 new) and no haggle.

On to my next project...

Thanks again everyone?

[Gummerfan]

Well, somebody got a good deal out of it at least.

[OLDKID]

QUITTER .

[omii]

Heyyyyy.. He is 8yo, tm300xrx is just too big.

Besides he loves bike riding. I see a dirt bike in the near future.