New shocks for the Spiderbox!

[T3beatz]

Well, I finally bit the bullet and purchased a set of those $80.00 gas shocks from ebay... http://www.ebay.com/itm/260998602398...ht_1425wt_1166

Mine came with no box, just an extra set of bushings for different size bolts (12mm, 10mm), I asked him to trow in an extra set of 10mm ones so he did for free. They also come with the spanner wrench for adjusting the preload.

As far as build quality goes, they are not gonna win any awards but they still look pretty good, and seem to be sturdy enough to handle 150 size buggy. They are adjustable length wise, the eyelet on the bottom can screw out so you can add a little over a half inch to them.

I got them on the buggy and jumped on the front and they immediately bottomed out. So, I adjusted the preload, and added some air from my compressor (I'd say about 100psi for testing purpose) I have no meters other than whats on the compressor and a standard tire gauge and it tops out at 50psi. This helped to get them good enough to test ride. If I jump hard enough I can still get them to bottom out, I think I need at least 150-175psi to get them where they should be. Anyways, I hit the trail and I took it easy the first time around and the shocks felt really good, but the second time around I showed no mercy. I got them to bottom out a few times on some hard hits (like if I was on three wheels and only one of the front wheels was on the ground) I'm waiting to get the shocks filled before I start making and real judgments on them. So far they seem to be a good buy.

From the pics you can see how much preload I added to get them ride-able, I still can add about 1.5more inches of pre-load to them if I need to. Also the springs can be changed pretty easy if you have a heavier buggy. One other negative thing is these shocks don't have a ton of travel... I think I have about 2.5" my surplus center ones had more, but it's a trade off I'm willing to take.
oh, and my front end is looking kinda rough.. I have have to paint the a-arms after a few mods that I've done to them.

[T3beatz]

Here are a few pics of a mod the guy did in order to fill the shock with the proper oil levels easier without having to break the shock down, from the factory they do not have enough in them (I can kinda tell that the oil side needs to be bled and filled)... He used a 5mm screw, There is an o ring under the screw. I will be doing this once I go buy a tap and die set. You also can probably get away with not doing the counterbore, I would think some teflon tape and just an O ring on a screw with a nice flat head would be fine for a good seal, the top is kinda tapered a little so it would need to be made flat a little. I don't know why they did not just do this at the factory...

[T3beatz]

went out yesterday and did some hard riding, got about 21 miles in on some off road trails and the shocks held up pretty good. Structurally they are pretty sound, but I will be changing and bleeding the oil side to something a tad thicker... I heard Mobil 1 synthetic ATF fluid works good as a replacement for 10W fork oil so I'll be trying that in the shocks.

I'm gonna try and get the mod done today. I'll post pics once I'm done.

[metalstudman1]

Is the reason you want to add a heavier oil because they bottom out? I'd try more air pressure first and see if that doesn't cure the bottom out issue. I thought the oil was to lubricate the nitrogen/air through the valving & keep the seals soft.

[x-bird]

Typically gas pressure controls the compression rate and oil flow controls the rebound rate. Switching outside of a shock oil generally isn't recommended, usually 5, 10 and 20 weight can be found at motorcycle and bike shops.

[T3beatz]

yep just like X-bird said, the oil controls the rebound damping. If I jump on the buggy there is damping but I can here the cavitation in the shocks, it's as if the Chinese did not fill them to the proper levels and air is mixed in. A few guys said they took out the Chinese oil, about 100ml and had to put back in 200ml, so that goes to show how much they filled them. I knew all this before I bought them so it's nothing unexpected.

As you know oil does not really compress, so the air is what compresses when the shock piston rod inters the shock body. There is a bladder that separates the gas side from the oil side. If there is air mixed in with the oil, no matter how much you put in the nitro side (they are only rated up to a certain PSI), the air that is mixed with the oil will compress also throwing off the compression damping basically making it easier to bottom out. Before I get them charged with nitro I would like to get the oil side good to go.

These shocks are fully rebuildable, so that's a plus in my book.

X-bird what do you mean by "switching outside of a shock oil is not generally isn't recommended"?

[xlint89]

Pretty sure he means don't use the ATF fluid. Stay with shock oil.

I just installed a set of Yamaha Moto 4 YMF 100 shocks on the front today. 1" longer than stock, much softer (too soft, they bottom quite easily) for $25 shipped.


Looks like thy'll be going on the nephews' 3203 Yerf since they weigh 50 lbs.


The search continues......

[T3beatz]

oh, I see now... we shall see, ATF and shock oil have the same properties... good with heat and anti foaming agents, as long as you have the correct weight to your application there should be no problems.

I couldn't find any contraindications to using it? if so, list some...

[x-bird]

While a surprising amount of heat is generated in a shock, trannies run hot as well. The difference is that transmission fluid is designed to work with the clutch packs and has different shear properties than shock oil in that regard. Don't know if it will affect the wipers (if you have them) in your shocks, I'd say short to mid range use you won't notice any ill effect, but if you were looking further down the road, it may be a different story. My biggest concern would be it getting past the shaft seals/bearing more easily than light hydraulic oil. In a pinch, I'd go with that (hydraulic/jack oil) before i'd go with ATF.
There are emulsion shocks on the market with the air and oil intermixing, haven't really studied those yet. Everything I ever had had separate chambers for air/oil or used different components (spring/cushion, spring/air, cushion/oil etc.) The polaris shocks on the rear of mine are squishy sounding. allegedly rebuilt, don't think there quite enough pressure in them or they didn't bleed all the air out of the valve chamber when putting them together.

[T3beatz]

Yeah, I've done a ton of searching and found people have been using ATF in shocks for a long time, some guys said they have been using it for years with no problems. This is on MX bike forks and what not also. The ATF fluid is pretty much 10wt and it is a bit thicker than the shock oil I took out of the shocks.

I got the mods done and I can personally say that the shock is much better, things are much smoother and the squishy noise is pretty much gone away. Damping is better also with the heavier weight fluid and no air mixed with the oil (as best I can). I still can't charge the shocks to the PSI that I'd like, I can only put 125 in them from my compressor (but realistically it's not even that much because of the loss from the air chuck when it's disconnected). I would like to get up to 150 at least with nitro and see how that works.

I drilled and tapped 2 10-24 holes in the top of the shocks, one for fill and the other for air bleed. If you really want to get technical I'm sure you could screw in some 10-24 nipples and do a vacuum bleed of the system cycling the oil. I just filled them up from one hole and let the air flow from the other, it took me a little time because I would let it sit after a few CC's of fluid to let the air flow out. Once done, I just screwed in the bolts with some washers and o-rings and done.

I put them back on the buggy and jumped on it for a while to see if I would get any leakage and I have none. Now to get it on the trails and see how it works out.

[x-bird]

do they have a schrader valve for air fill? if so, pick one of these up and use it to fine tune your pressure level. once your happy with the results, then have them hit with the nitrogen.

http://www.bing.com/shopping/avenir-...pump&FORM=HURE

[T3beatz]

yep they have a schrader valve. I was gonna get a bike shock pump I was reading about them in one of the motorcycle forums, a friend from the other forum offered to fill my shocks with nitro when I was ready he said he could handle up to 800psi at least.

Also from doing a little reading and there are a lot of guys that say if you are not bottoming out sometimes then your shocks are not setup correctly, do you guys think this is true?

[T3beatz]

Well, I got some more time on the shocks today and I'm liking them more and more every time I ride. I was able to adjust them a little more today, I had a little too much pre-load dialed in and I wasn't getting the droop I wanted on the front, also when I would hit some small bumps my passenger side shock wouldn't react like I wanted. but with a quick adjustment while riding all was good.
The springs on the shocks are made for a light buggy/motorcycle/ATV... They are progressive, and if you have no pre-load dialed in you can go through the softer part of the springs pretty quick, just by sitting in the buggy I can use up about half of the travel, and this is on the front of the spiderbox.

In the pics you can see how much pre-load adjustment I did for the Driver side and passenger side in my buggy. I don't ride with a passenger much so I adjusted it to suit just me.

[Cowboy76]

A buddy of mine is running coil overs on his off road truck I think he told me he gets the ride height, & then charges them with nitrogen. Maybe you need to have them charged so you fine tune.

[T3beatz]

yeah, I definitely need to get them charged, as they sit now they are great shocks, 20 times better than stock. Once I get them charged I'll be able to re adjust my pre-load because the extra psi will also aid in pressure damping.

[edroden]

How is the testing going? You've got me interested.

[T3beatz]

As they sit now they are great, I can't get any testing done because I'm in the middle of replacing the rear axle. I got about 40+ hard off road miles on the shocks to date and they seem to hold up pretty good. I also extended the shocks to give my front end a little more height, the eye screws out about another inch or so for height adjustment (I wouldn't go to far).

[ckau]

It appears, with your tuning, these shocks have potential. I like the tapping deal for adding oil. Did you dismantle the shock for the machining? I'm concerned about drill shaving getting to the passages. Do you have a link to where this guy did this?

[T3beatz]

I didn't take the shocks apart, I don't have a shock spring compressor, I just tapped and cleaned as best I could... but once I find the link to the guy that did I'll post it. He broke them down and found them to be built pretty good on the inside.

This page, starts at the bottom, then I think it skips to pg. 28 and so on... http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.250

[T3beatz]

Well, I just got back from the national buggy bash at St. Joe State park in MO, and the shocks performed flawlessly. They are still good as new, even after taking on some of the roughest trails I have been on. I logged over 60 miles in about 2 days, it would have been more but we spent a lot of time on Sat at events.

[ckau]

Caught a short vid of you over at BN. You were running real sharp on that hill climb

[T3beatz]

Yep I didn't do too bad, but my little bro took first! his spiderbox was the yellow and black one in the pics. He has a 58.5mm head on his (just rebuilt) he beat a guy with a 63mm head and stroker crank, the rest of us (3 other 150's) were pretty much stock, I have the 39T sprocket but that actually slowed me down most of the time I was out there. It felt like first gear the whole time, it did come in handy when I had to tow my friend out of the trails when his drive shaft bearing failed.

[SoapKart]

You definitely put them to the test! It was some great riding this past weekend and I will be making a return trip.

[T3beatz]

Yeah, we plan on going back sometime at the end of summer or maybe in early fall.
Get those skinny tires on the front and I'm sure you'll be good to go.

when we were loading my brothers buggy into his truck we noticed that one of his ball joints pulled through the tab, we finished riding just in time.

[Big Rich]

Bumping up an old thread - sorry.

But this thread has tons of info in it for these shocks. I recently bought and installed some 320mm RFY shocks on my YD and even after a couple loops thru the yard I have to say I'm rather impressed. Still need to drill and tap for the oil holes, and mess with the air though.....

Anybody have any info / updates on these shocks?