Manco XTK-707c

[70Cobra]

Hi All,

Looking at getting a first buggy for my daughter and I. Went and saw a spiderbox today that was pretty beat up and the seller didn't want to take my offer.

I'm aware of the mods etc needed on them and it's thanks to what I have read that I knew what to look out for.

So I am going to go and look at the Manco tomorrow. I haven't been able to find out much info on this model. It has the 7hp subaru from what I was told. I know they are a good engine.

What is the steering and suspension like on these? It only has a single control arm either side, is that set up any good?

Will be mainly just riding woods trails and around my 5ac property. My daughter is nearly 6 and I know it will be too big for her now but I will do some mods so she can reach the pedals.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks.

[tkeagle]

I had a Manco Duce for a short time. I sold it, for what I bought for it.
I'm not sure about the model your talking about, but the Duce, seemed to have
problems finding part for it. Really, nice little buggy, but parts was going to be a pain
to find, so sold it.
Would suggest to see how easily parts can be found for it.

[OLDKID]

I have a Manco Silver Fox , similar , steering geometry sucks ( mine has the short drag link off the column , two tierods ) with weight in it / and or on uneven ground / and or worn tires it can be real difficult to turn the wheel . I've had teenage Granddaughters in tears while running it on ATV trails .

[70Cobra]

Thanks for the replies.

I ended up buying it as it was in pretty good condition. The frame is really nice and more solid than the YD Spiderbox.

One of the A arms is slightly bent. I can buy a replacement @ $89 and also want to swap out the front shocks.Anyone know a good replacement for the front shocks?

Wondering if I am better off putting that money towards either installing a spiderbox front end or a Yamaha Blaster front clip?

Though at the moment my daughter is young and the yard and trails around us are pretty tame.

I know people install Blaster front shocks on the rear of different buggies. Will they work on the rear of this?

I'm surprised with Manco having been an American company that there is not more love/info on people modding these, at least that I can find.

[x-bird]

if you decide to revise the front clip, quad transplant is the way to go. much more cost effective, you get front brakes essentially ready to go, easier replacement parts access. Here's an LTZ 400 front going on my latest project.split it, widened it to match the a-arm inner pivots to yerfdog steering rack pivots and on it went with some tubing chopping and refitting. easiest front end i've yet done. As far as shocks go, any decent gas/oil shock that fits will be an improvement. it's the spring rate that's more important to get a good match. that aspect can be worked around/tuned somewhat by changing the angle/position of the shock to increase/decrease the motion ratio (think leverage) and make something a little too stiff or soft work better. I always preach to find a rebuildable shock like a fox so that you can go in and fine tune the shims, change the oil and make repairs if needed. front shocks from sleds are a good source, blaster shocks also seem to be a good match, based on spring rate.

[JERSEYDEVIL]

i had your manco about 6 years back. here's a link and some pics of what i did to it. overall it was better and fun to do.
used a yerf spider box and did a rack set up for steering changed the seats , shocks and made an exhaust for it too.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4539882&type=3

and here is a similar silverfox project i did.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4539882&type=3

if you access the links let me know, but the photos are in sequence of how it started and where it ended up.
this was one of my first projects done in my home garage so some of the stuff is a little sketchy for my tastes and work now , but the general idea is there...............brings back memories.

[70Cobra]

Originally Posted by x-bird

if you decide to revise the front clip, quad transplant is the way to go. much more cost effective, you get front brakes essentially ready to go, easier replacement parts access. Here's an LTZ 400 front going on my latest project.split it, widened it to match the a-arm inner pivots to yerfdog steering rack pivots and on it went with some tubing chopping and refitting. easiest front end i've yet done. As far as shocks go, any decent gas/oil shock that fits will be an improvement. it's the spring rate that's more important to get a good match. that aspect can be worked around/tuned somewhat by changing the angle/position of the shock to increase/decrease the motion ratio (think leverage) and make something a little too stiff or soft work better. I always preach to find a rebuildable shock like a fox so that you can go in and fine tune the shims, change the oil and make repairs if needed. front shocks from sleds are a good source, blaster shocks also seem to be a good match, based on spring rate.

Thanks for the info, that looks sweet.

[70Cobra]

Originally Posted by JERSEYDEVIL

i had your manco about 6 years back. here's a link and some pics of what i did to it. overall it was better and fun to do.
used a yerf spider box and did a rack set up for steering changed the seats , shocks and made an exhaust for it too.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4539882&type=3

and here is a similar silverfox project i did.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4539882&type=3

if you access the links let me know, but the photos are in sequence of how it started and where it ended up.
this was one of my first projects done in my home garage so some of the stuff is a little sketchy for my tastes and work now , but the general idea is there...............brings back memories.

I had seen your mods which is why I was wondering about adding the spiderbox front end, though I only saw a few photo's of you mentioning it somewhere on the net.

Knowing what you know do you think it makes sense just to graft on an atv front end? Seeing the spiderbox front clip needs so much beefing up adding heims and beefed up spindles etc.

I would be buying it all either way and I imagine I would be ahead financially just going with the atv.

[70Cobra]

I changed the black oil and also pulled off the carb to give it a clean. The carb was quite clean and after draining all the gas the fuel tank was spotless. I'm surprised due to it having sat for a while with today's sub par gas.

Been having a blast ripping around my property and the woods trails behind my place. Clocked myself at 20mph with my iphone gps. Definitely fast enough with the current suspension.

[JERSEYDEVIL]

Originally Posted by 70Cobra

I had seen your mods which is why I was wondering about adding the spiderbox front end, though I only saw a few photo's of you mentioning it somewhere on the net.

Knowing what you know do you think it makes sense just to graft on an atv front end? Seeing the spiderbox front clip needs so much beefing up adding heims and beefed up spindles etc.

I would be buying it all either way and I imagine I would be ahead financially just going with the atv.

yea i would do things alot different now. if you can get a complete atv clip and have tools, that would be the way to go.

[70Cobra]

Getting a new exhaust pipe and super trap muffler from

http://www.robertsonstorquetubes.com/

Also getting an air filter adapter. A bargain if you ask me and it's a small family run business. Rex was great to talk to and was only interested in getting me what worked best.

He is the only place I was able to find that did exhaust for the Subaru engine.

[Gy6buggy88]

Nice catch finding Robertsons. I've never stumbled across that site. The carter buggy pipe kit looks like a nice upgrade from stock for a decent price.

[70Cobra]

The Robertsons pipe and air filter adapter turned up today. It's a nice bit of kit. Great the pipe is in 2 pieces so you can clock the lower section wherever you like.

Fast turn around from when I ordered to it turning up.

I also installed a set of blaster front shocks on the rear. Made a huge improvement over stock and actually felt weird as the rear was moving up and down over bumps as opposed to just bumping along.

I need to extend the top mounts as they are longer than stock so the swing arm is pushed down and the engine is running rough due to the carb not being level.

[Gy6buggy88]

Send a pic of your new exhaust once it's installed.

[EVILWS6]

What Carter does that pipe go on?

[70Cobra]

Originally Posted by EVILWS6

What Carter does that pipe go on?

Call Rex, I'm sure he would make a pipe to fit anything.

[70Cobra]

Got 4 mph on the top end and a ton of torque from take off. That is with the disc muffler with all discs installed.

I'm really impressed with how the pipe has made the buggy feel totally different. Bang for buck I don't think you could beat it.

Can't wait to see what I get out of the air filter adapter.

[70Cobra]

A couple of shots of the pipe.

[70Cobra]

Boy have I been having a blast with this buggy. So has my young daughter except for the time daddy hit and knocked down a small rotted out tree!

Finally got hold of a donor quad, its a 92 honda 250x. It had been kept inside so there is no rust. It has front disc brakes which is a bonus.

My original thought was to cut and widen the front clip so it matches the width of my existing front end.

I thought I had read some place that having a wider front than the rear helps with steering? Is this the case and if so why is it that the quad has a narrower front end than the rear end?

It would be so much easier to just graft the front clip on as is. It would also help me on the trails out the back of my place as they have been made by quads and when I get to a chewed out area I tend to ride high on the ridge each side, if you get what I'm explaining?

And on a car you never see a wider front end than the rear.

Also if I keep it intact I am hoping I may be able to cut the bottom of the steering shaft of and rotate it down and use it as my new column. Then I am using factory tie rods and just makes it easier again.

I would just need to weld a bracket on the end to accept a steering wheel.

Also how would I go about joining the front and rear hydraulic brake systems together? Is it as simple as getting some joiners for the lines? I imagine I would need a proportioning valve to ensure proper brake bias?

Phew! That was long.

Thanks.

[70Cobra]

Has everyone shut up shop for Christmas already?

Did a few hours of head scratching and measuring today. Keeping the atv frame intact is not going to work as the wheels would be right under the main frame bar that wraps around the front of the buggy, and I don't want to cut that section out.

Really need to get this sorted as I hit a downed tree and have bent back the passenger side A arm real bad!

The atv frame is angled up towards the front so that the A arms are moving up and backwards. Do I need to keep an angle similar to this or can I have them "parallel"?

I'm thinking a rack and pinion will make the buggy easier for my daughter to steer. Should I buy that now and then set the width of the A arms to match? Or is that something I can work around?

My idea for cutting and widening the front clip was to measure all the dimensions width wise down the front clip.

Then chose my width and see what the difference is and then make sure that same distance is at all the points I have measured down the clip. ie: add 6" to each measured point and the factory spacing of the clip will be the same but obv widened 6".

So what do you think?

[x-bird]

That's basically the idea on a split. mine in the picture is about 4 inches wider than the stock ltz frame.
the angle of the front suspension creates caster, which helps reduce steering effort and lends itself to self-centering. it also relives rearward stress on the a-arms in the rough stuff.
most buggies have about 9 degrees of caster built into then with an upslope of the front frame.

since the rear end is direct live axle you get a lot of "push" in corners. going wider up front helps overcome that and also makes for a more stable platform.

[70Cobra]

Thanks for the reply x-bird.

So it's not going to be as easy as I thought. How do I go about building in that 9 deg of caster?

Do you think I need to get the rack and build around that? Would you suggest the spiderbox rack?

Thanks mate.

[x-bird]

spiderbox rack while inexpensive is decent quality, but it's offset. the teeth are biased to one side for a two seater off center arrangement. you can buy a latest rage rack for the price and aggravation of modifying the spidebox rack

look at my latest build to see how to work the front end in with the caster, not hard to do.

once you split and widen the quad frame, you mount it to a front frame tube angled upwards. tack the bottom tube in, then build the rest of the connections/front end tubing after the quad nose is in place.

[70Cobra]

Thanks!

My buggy has offset steering at the moment,so I assumed it may work for me. Or I guess there is a chance it won't line up with the position of my steering shaft?

Though I have read the turning circle isn't so great on that and guys modify it. Am I better off getting a centered rack and using universal joints to reach my shaft?

And from what I understand the pivot points of A arms need to be in the same position vertically as the rack inner tie rod pivot points? Is there any wiggle room with this?

So that I need to build around what ever rack I go with?

So to get my 9deg of caster I just angle my front clip up this amount from the rest of my buggy frame? Which is straight.

I appreciate all your help. I have been restoring muscle cars for a long time but have never had to do this kind of front end modifications.

[70Cobra]

x-bird, I re read one of your earlier replies and you stated the a arm pivots must be the same as rack pivot points.

I knew I read it somewhere recently

I still wonder if these points can be modded on the rack or they are set to a certain width?

[x-bird]

if you've ever messed with a 1st or 2nd gen F-body, you see the caster in those in that the a-arm inner mounts are angled on the subframe. much less caster though. uni-body strut jobs handle it differently.

If you're keeping it as a 2-seater offset rack and the steering doesnt' really need messed with, you just have to mimic the position inside the new a-arm setup.

Your best bet is to get your rack position setup with the clevises on it (assuming you use a clevis connection to the tie rod) before widening the quad frame. Once you know the spread between the inner tie rod eye points, then you can widen the quad frame so the eye points land right in line with the upper and lower a-arms. the more you deviate, the more bump steer you will get. Wheel will turn as the suspension cycles up and down even going in a straight line--you don't want that.

If the quad suspension provides more travel like mine, (i kept the quad shock mounting points) the yerf inner pivot socket will NOT work, it will bind. moving it to a non binding point will limit the travel and give you bump steer issues. hence the need to make clevises for it.

With the latest build, I knew i had some variability to work with, I had the yerf rack on my rig to measure from to give me a basic width to shoot for.

even with that I shorted myself about 3/4 of an inch in width, so my clevises can't thru bolt in. the bolt head thickness interferes with the tie rod's rod end, so i have to make it stud-style and make a back plate with a stud welded to it. Once i tighten that studded plate on the rack, I can weld my clevis box to it so the clevis sides are vertical at fully tight. then red loctite time.


I wanted to use the flats on the rack end as locks to prevent the clevis from turning. a clevis box with a center hole and two protruding tabs. 3/4 of an inch shy of it working. If i had made the clevises before i split and built the frame, i would've avoided that little annoyance. if i kept as is, it will cause a bit of bump steer, not much, but i want this thing on the money so I'll take the extra time to change plans.

[x-bird]

ignore the "mimic" the offset part, forgot the spiderbox run unequal tie rods and do get a bit of bumpsteer. better of going centered, having the column and mount offset isnt' a big deal. I hope to update my thread tonight.

[70Cobra]

Originally Posted by x-bird

ignore the "mimic" the offset part, forgot the spiderbox run unequal tie rods and do get a bit of bumpsteer. better of going centered, having the column and mount offset isnt' a big deal. I hope to update my thread tonight.

Ok I will look to get a centered rack, but how do I work out what width I need?

[x-bird]

Figure out how wide you want your front track. say the quad with outside to outside of the tires is 48 inches and you want 54 inches. that extra 6 inches is going to come from the split and widen between the a-arm mounts. measure the current distance between the a-arm mounts at the point the rack shaft will sit, add 6, then subtract the amount needed for the clevises, because you want the tie rod inner pivot at that overall new distance. better to give the clevises a little "extra" length so you don't end up in my situation, where i figured it a bit on the tight side.

[70Cobra]

Thanks, that makes sense. I will see where I think I want the track and then call one of the rack supply places and order over the phone. That way they can let me know which rack would be closest to my needs. As measurements I have seen seem to be eye to eye and don't mention the inner pivot point distance.

I won't be able to get to this until the end of Jan now as I'm heading back to Australia for the holidays and doubt I will be able to get it shipped before then.

[x-bird]

if you're getting a rack with eye ends, then you're golden.
That's the inner pivot point and distance you want to set your a arm pivot line thru.

[70Cobra]

Oh that eye to eye measurement is the pivot point and then your tie rods join that point.

For some reason I was looking at it all wrong and thinking those rod ends went out to the wheel. I was wondering how in the hell the rack pivots

Too much going on in my head to see something so simple! Bloody reindeer...