Yerfdog with a view!

[x-bird]

That's a funny looking pogo stick you have there sir! )) I found that if you slip a couple 1x4s or 6's under the tires perpendicular to the frame it'll give you a better feel for the travel since they slide the wheel outward instead of pushing into the tire's sidewall. you've probably got another 3/4 to an inch of travel with your weight bouncing on it than the vid shows. Did the wheel flutter in the turns go away? if not, i was thinking if your clevis at the end of the rack has any play in it between its sides and the center "pin" on the end of the tie rod, that might also be a factor.

[SYCARMS]

Your right bout the solid axle. I have the solid axle in my 250 and on the flatter or groomed trails it is really fun around the curves, but when you get on those irregular rutted trails like at ST. Joes the IRS sure make the buggy so much more stable. Both rear suspensions have their advantages depending on how you like to ride.

[GX150]

I watched my Yerf with solid axle on rutted trail verses IRS buggies - The back of the Yerf would slip and slide between ruts and sometimes only one rear wheel would be making contact with the ground. The IRS buggies tracked much better and both rear wheels were planted through most of the variances.

[metalstudman1]

I totally understand the benifits of IRS, and the few advantages of a solid axle- this all goes back to cost. The next best thing under IRS is my "different type of buggy with the articulating rear axle & I still get to slide the rear around with minimal HP. IRS takes up very little space where articulting axle needs lot's of chain twist- My goal here is to try and improve what I consider was a great front end clip design with the most amount of comfort and control/durability.

[x-bird]

BTW, you've got me scratching my head and staring til i'm bug-eyed. What do you have keeping the shock compressed in the photo with the wheel up?

[T3beatz]

yeah, I was looking at that too x-bird, I went out and did mine and I had to put a little weight in the buggy to keep both wheels down.

T.J.

Hey MSM, do you by any chance know the OD of the stock A-arm tubing for the yerf? I plan on extending my top ones this week and moving my shock mounts to the top side. I'm gonna just do it the same way I did the tie rod, cut slip some tubing over them and weld. I want to get all this done so I can get some better shocks ordered.

I would go and do it myself but I don't have a caliper yet, and I figured you might know what it is off the top of your head.

Thanks.

[metalstudman1]

Originally Posted by T3beatz

yeah, I was looking at that too x-bird, I went out and did mine and I had to put a little weight in the buggy to keep both wheels down.

T.J.

Hey MSM, do you by any chance know the OD of the stock A-arm tubing for the yerf? I plan on extending my top ones this week and moving my shock mounts to the top side. I'm gonna just do it the same way I did the tie rod, cut slip some tubing over them and weld. I want to get all this done so I can get some better shocks ordered.

I would go and do it myself but I don't have a caliper yet, and I figured you might know what it is off the top of your head.

Thanks.

There's nothing compressing the shock!!! That's why I said I could still compress it about another 1" or so. I couldn't reach to measure it with me setting in the seat to be sure.

The stock A-arms are made from 1" 16g.

[metalstudman1]

Barely out ran the rain to give the suspension a HARD test. I jumped it for the first time over our 14' hill at about 25mph- barely got any air but it did bottom out my rear shocks & no damage or wierd steering issues. With the corrected Ackerman spindle points I now have a 16' +/- turning radius (that's TIGHT)
Found my wheel wobble- passenger side only with no passenger- the wheel is light and wanting to skip across the ground- doesn't affect anything but looks wierd!!!

The pic's is to show my way of getting the rack centered (equal steering arm lengths) by leaving the rack in the stock location. There were a couple of reasons I changed the radius ball joint ends that came stock.
1.they take up 2"-3" of additional length on the rack.they're not stops
2.they have a very limited angle
3.The end is simply crimped on the threaded stud
4.they're additional un-needed weight!!!
Note: I added (it's only tacked in place) a stop foot plate as I've sheared the bolts holding the rack before from excessive movement

[x-bird]

seems like you, ckau and myself all are tackling the same things at the same time.

i've been working up mounts for my rack. I have a piece of 1/2 x 3/4 bar stock to weld to the front and drill and tap to mount to. I need it to give some clearance for the boots and want enough thread depth. Looking at it the other day I came to the conclusion that i wanted to weld a piece of 1/4 plate to the underside of the bar stock to make a 90 angle for the rack block to set into so the bolts don't shear. I seem to recall more than one yerf mount picture where the rack's a bit crooked likely from the bolts beginning to bend.

[ckau]

I'm really likin the heim and cleavi attachment points! I will probably do this at some point but right now I'm anxious to start on the rear swing arm so I'll leave it as is for now. The cradle around the base of the box is a must! I have one made but forgot to put it on yesterday. Thanks for reminding me. Those box bolts will shear in a skinny minute. At the very least the box shifts, beats out the mounting holes and will twist around screwing up the alignment

[T3beatz]

MSM, I take it you made those ends on your rack from scratch?

I definitely need to build the box for my rack, I'll tighten it down but after a couple of hard rides it's right back moving again.

[GX150]

Mine moved around until I used Grade 8 bolts with lock nuts and torqued it down.

[metalstudman1]

Up-date: After playing in the trails for 4+ hrs (7 yr. old driving) with me behind her I watched how it handled in the rough stuff- The tire wobble in full turn is a by-product of my rubber encased bushings & light wheels/tires. Got back home and doing my usual inspection (loose bolts,strange wear, leaks,ect...) I find the BMI hubs & bearings aren't going to hold up. The drivers front outside bearing was already showing signs of wear (discoloration). So now I'm going to plan B and get some heavier duty hubs & bearings. The front suspension did what it was supposed to- I rode with her for a little bit providing some technical advise and the ride was pretty smooth and she didn't have any steering issues. The turning radius is phenominal and smooth, only issue would be at full turn it takes more effort to straighten the wheels at a stand-still (typical). It bites well in turns at all speeds and she never complained about anything- that's always good.

[metalstudman1]

Warning!!! I knew the BMI hubs were weak!!! Of course out playing today and I see the tire wobbling AGAIN- then it shot off on it's own-It escaped!!!! Lucky I was behind my wife and didn't get hit.

[T3beatz]

That's why I got the heavy duty versions! Although that seems like an easy fix.

[metalstudman1]

The heavy duty hubs aren't welded on both sides either!! that was the issue- tiny thin weld from the factory-Might have contributed to the issue with driving abuse!!!!! I did weld it back but still looking for something else(or make somemore of my own again)

[T3beatz]

how long did they last?

[metalstudman1]

2 weeks!!! We ride nearly everyday so atleast 10 trips/20+hrs.

[T3beatz]

your right the heavy duty hubs are not welded on both sides either, but that could be fixed pretty quick. They have held up pretty good to the abuse I've put them through.

[metalstudman1]

I found some other REAL HEAVY DUTY hubs from one of the karts in the bone yard (I believe they're from a Manco)- re-drilled for 4" on 4" bolt pattern, welded in some 1/2" studs and the wife took it out into the trails for a beating. I'll get some pic's of the hubs- I have no fear of these hubs!!!
Here's a short vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85DTtoPy7kI

[metalstudman1]

Here's the hubs I modified (sorry I haven't cleaned and painted them!!!)

[SYCARMS]

Those remind me of the hubs used on baggage carts. I have several of them and they are heavy duty.

[T3beatz]

those hubs look nearly indestructible! nice video also... I need to get a little height on my buggy.

[metalstudman1]

Originally Posted by T3beatz

those hubs look nearly indestructible! nice video also... I need to get a little height on my buggy.

I'm feeling more comfortable with these hubs!!! Thanx-Where's your video?
If you'll just stand up you'll get some height on the buggy!!!!!

[T3beatz]

I'll start posting some soon, every time I go out to the trails I forget to bring my camera! I bring a spare everything else but I leave the camera on charge...

[T3beatz]

Well, I got a video finally... It's a first person view one, no one was around to get any other shots. I was going an average of about 8-10mph throughout the trails because I had to hold the camera. Some of the hills are a lot steeper than they looked!

I'll get some more this weekend we are supposed to have an avt/buggy trail ride in a trail near my home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F87e_...ature=youtu.be

[SYCARMS]

Not easy trying to drive and use a hand held video camera. You need to get one to mount on your buggy. Like the color of the buggy as well. You missed a great ride last week, hopefully you can make the next one. If you do just don't go on any rides Funnyman leads for you will end up on the highway.

[metalstudman1]

Nice trails and great job filming while driving-

[T3beatz]

Originally Posted by SYCARMS

Not easy trying to drive and use a hand held video camera. You need to get one to mount on your buggy. Like the color of the buggy as well. You missed a great ride last week, hopefully you can make the next one. If you do just don't go on any rides Funnyman leads for you will end up on the highway.

Thanks guys, I plan on getting some better video this weekend. I definitely will be at the St. Joe buggy bash, it's only about 2 months away!

[SYCARMS]

Did you get your site yet? If so which one.

[T3beatz]

No, didn't get a site yet, I still have to see if I can stay the night. I wan't to, and most likely will but I have to convince the girlfriend.

[SYCARMS]

Just bring the girlfriend with, there will be plenty of wives and girlfriends there. She will appreciate the clean crappers and hot water showers. The accomadations at St. Joes are 1st. class.

[T3beatz]

She will not come... she is not the outdoorsy type, and she doesn't like to ride in the buggy, she is afraid of everything!

I'm sure I can get a day or two away.

[SYCARMS]

Hope to see you there.

[metalstudman1]

Update: For anyone interested or considering the type/style A-arms I made- after a month of running the new A-arms with the rubber encased bushings has proven to take a healthy beating- We've been fortunate with our weather and have gotten to go play almost everyday for at least 2 hrs (all day on the weekends). I still have the visually unpleasing tire bounce/wobble at full turn- you can't feel it nor does it effect the turn- just looks strange!!! Also when backing up with some speed the wheels @ full turn it appears you're going to tear the wheel off!!! I'm constantly inspecting the A-arms and they're the same as the day I put them on. The only issue/breakage was the cheap hubs (fixed). Wife,daughter & myself have given the Yerfdog more & harder punishment than ever thought about before simply because it'll take it now without failure.The other noticable improvement felt is the steering is so much smoother and effortless in comparison to before. My daugther and wife have both given me the !!!(I do keep track!!)
I'll keep everyone updated if/when we do have a failure. I got what I wanted by the way on the new A-arms design---"ZERO" maintenance & more travel(realistic travel is about 8" before airing a tire).

[SYCARMS]

Great to hear its working out as planned.

[x-bird]

Just inherent deflection ... if you ever want to reduce it, switch to a harder durometer bushing. good thing about it is that it will dissipate some of the energy of "unwanted" impacts.

[metalstudman1]

Originally Posted by x-bird

Just inherent deflection ... if you ever want to reduce it, switch to a harder durometer bushing. good thing about it is that it will dissipate some of the energy of "unwanted" impacts.

It's amazing how many small impacts have been eliminated!!!!!

Today we were about to call it a day after playing in the dirt all day when my daughter caught her first "AIR" pulling into the yard. She was so excited and thrilled about it so I ran in and got the camera. Her next attempts on camera didn't bring the same amount of air, but gave her that feeling!!!- She's definitely a thrill junkie!!
Here's a short vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGVpoerL6fk

[roysheepdog]

Is the buggy set up with droop?Ive seen your vids and it dont look like it does.
just wondering

[metalstudman1]

Define droop- not sure what all that involves to be intentional. The current shocks do compress when you set in it- but not alot. When you go to jack it up though there's a good 5" or more that the shocks will extend before getting the tires off the ground. Is that where you were going?

[roysheepdog]

Droop is were it sits at ride height,say with 12'' travel 50%droop is 6''.It was hard to tell how its set up in the vids, i could not tell if there was any down travel.But you said 5'' or so,thats what i was wondering.
For any that dont know droop will make for a lot smother ride.thank of jacking up a car under the frame,how high it goes before the tire get off the ground.

[metalstudman1]

Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page!!! Didn't set it up that way intentionally when I tried these shocks. The Spiderbox doesn't really know my daughter is sitting in it when it comes to the suspension. I've never wanted to jump this because I was afraid of a suspension failure/bendage-recently I have had the front tires off the ground (8"-12") since the new A-arms and it felt smooth on the landing other than having a rear shock that's started to leak a bit acounting for bottoming out in the rear. I'll try and get some video of me jumping it soon for comparison purposes.

[metalstudman1]

FYI- last night a friend that races karts came over and we ran the Punisher and Yerfdog for 2 straight hours around my track racing. This was very hard on the buggies since my track needs to be groomed to remove all the deep ruts.The Yerfdog did amazingly well and definitely handled the ruts much better than the Punisher, the Spiderbox could actually power out of the corners better too which I couldn't believe with it setting 13" off the ground and the Punisher only being only 7". We swapped buggies after about 100 laps and went at it again!! I ended up trashing the auto clutch in the Punisher (won't disengage now)& breaking a ball joint (just re-welded it back on). I'm really liking these rubber bushings more & more (no bent/broke parts) even though the handling characteristics are much softer. Sorry no video as the ladies just wanted to chat it up!!!

[metalstudman1]

Update for anyone that cares!! The auto clutch that I thought was trashed isn't- I can't say enough about these Honda TRX200 engines reliabilty and continuous abuse they will take. It went back to normal yesterday while we were out in the trails I guess after a couple hundred laps continuously in one gear something locked up (temporarily).
Daughter slid into a tree today @ full left turn and folded the passenger front wheel on the Spiderbox completely behind the bumper, she was so upset thinking we were all done for the day & mad at herself. I unpinned it and to my amazement everything was perfectly aligned and un-damaged- I'm loving these rubber bushings in the A-arms!!!!!!!!!!

[T3beatz]

wow talk about durability! Seems you may be done tinkering with the front end for a while!

[SYCARMS]

Sounds like its going to hold up.

[metalstudman1]

Originally Posted by T3beatz

wow talk about durability! Seems you may be done tinkering with the front end for a while!

Got my fingers crossed!!! (still gotta paint it)
I took the camera just-in-case today across the road from our trails. I got a surprise performance from my now 8 yr. old daughter, you can see the front end is undamaged and working perfectly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZf50E-CxM

[SYCARMS]

id you tell her you were videoing the buggy? Cause she sure stole the show.

[metalstudman1]

Yes I told her!! She actually didn't make her first attempt (just spinning 1/2 way up) before I could get the camera going.

[metalstudman1]

It was a LONG day out playing. Same kid that was racing with me came back over this morning to go play, I took the camera. I can't ever get the money shot Just after I stop shooting ,the next pass ends up in a hard roll, drivers nose for 15'+ and a hard flop on it's side for the kid- He faired pretty well, small abrasion to his forearm near his elbow and a smashed set of knuckles. The pic's below show the damage -nearly none!!!Here's a vid of his driving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTtB6d1hqvw
So on the way back to the house in the trails he hit's a tree with some serious speed right on the Heims!!!! same tree my daughter clipped turning the wheel into the bumper. The Yerfdog didn't fair so well this time!! the last 5 pic's are the damage. I straighten it all back up and she's up and functioning again.

[T3beatz]

Man, that's got to suck... back to fixing! Oh yeah... get rid of that tree! lol

[SYCARMS]

One thing for sure, trees and stumps don't move and will tear what ever is moving up. Just good nobody got hurt and it seemed to be an easy fix.

[metalstudman1]

It's all good & typical for a day of fun!!! We'll be back at it tomorrow

[metalstudman1]

Update: 3 months of our near daily driving abuse on the frontend- NO MAINTENANCE, NO FAILURES, LOVING IT!!!!!!!!!!!( I honestly didn't think it was possible)

So I learned another benefit to the frontend- Built a utility trailer for us to haul camping gear with the buggies. After having to haul kid's (7 kid's, 13yrs.-8yrs. old) to and from the site to avoid multiple trips. The kid's decided they'd rather ride in the trailer than ride in the buggies-GO FIGURE!! So for 20 hrs. this weekend I hauled 6-7 kid's up & down hills in the trailer, all of them screaming like little girls on a roller coaster!!!!(well 5 of them were girls!) The new frontend took the strange impacts nose first with NO issues and the wheels stayed on the ground when topping a hill.I did find out the Honda TRX200SX can only tolerate about 800lbs. On hills 30% grade or more for more than 40'-50' it couldn't make it.
So I basically drove around for 2-1/2 days in "one" buggy and everyone was HAPPY
Trailer- 42"wide x 46" long x 18" tall x 134lbs total weight (wheels & tires = 40lbs alone)

[T3beatz]

No maintenance is always good, you've put a lot of work into that buggy so I guess it pays off sometime!

awesome looking trailer, I would like to do something like that, but with a seat or two in it for the kids... kinda like a rickshaw like the Asians usually pull around, I'd put a roll cage on it and some simple shocks it would be fun.

[SYCARMS]

Nice trailer.

[metalstudman1]

The trailer was never intended to haul humans!!!
There's a lot more strain on the buggy than you'd think pulling a trailer behind it over rough terrain especially on the front end, your traction needs are doubled too when they decide to get all the way in the rear of the trailer. I figured I'd share a "grandpa" moment- as I don't recommend hauling kid's around in a trailer.

[T3beatz]

It would be fun! I wouldn't go fast or anything, lol.

[metalstudman1]

Update: with 7+ kid's here for the summer- the buggies get no rest with them continually swapping drivers & passengers(8-10hrs. a day)!!! The axle sprocket bolts must have loosened sometime earlier in the day and finally sheared off. When I got it back in the shop to do the repair I gave the Spiderbox a close inspection-
1 machine bolt in a heim was loose!!!! first maintenance on these A-arms. 2 minor impacts to the A-arms into a tree today and still going strong, had these been the original A-arms I would've been repairing something.

[T3beatz]

I know what you mean, it feels good to ride a few times and not have to do work in between or when the day is up. I've had a few rides so far and things have been great, especially knowing that I don't have to worry as much about if I'm gonna have to get towed out of a trail because my axle broke.

How much time do you have on the engine your running?

[metalstudman1]

Originally Posted by T3beatz

How much time do you have on the engine your running?

100's I'm guessing as these engines are the factory stock ATV engines and I've not blown one up yet!!!!! The engine in the Spiderbox is the one out of my "different type of buggy" ('93 model). Since I've owned this one it's been run for almost 2 years- we drive ALOT. They all smoke a little after they're good and hot though (need rebuilding) but they start everytime and still provide good performance- when I can afford it I'd like to see just how strong they are when rebuilt!!!

[SYCARMS]

The reason a stock atv engine lasts so long is due to the quality control that goes into each component, without that they would not hold up to the punishment most put to them. With that said, just look at the price of rings, gaskets, piston or whatever, they are not cheap like the Chinese parts found on e-bay or some of the sites. The same holds true for the GY6 or other Chinese built engines. A Howlet, Kinroad, Hammerhead or any major brand Chinese built atv, buggy or whatever have the quality control built in to their product. But a brand new howlet engine, or one from CPI or United Motors of Taiwan and it will sell $100.00 + then the run of the mill GY6 engine found on e-bay or elsewhere, but they will last much longer then the cheap ones. Most feel they are getting a deal when they find a carb or starter for $30.00 but those same people usually complain that the Chinese products are not as good as Honda, Polaris, ect. Well look again because all their parts are made in China. The big difference is they have a more strict quality control. Quality control costs much more because you have employees checking the metal used in the process or someone for the electrical parts all to meet their standards then the final person to check machining specs as well as assembly. Since you have a lot more people involved that you are paying a wage it costs more. I have had several discussions with people on the other forum throughout the years who claim that alll Asian products are crap and if you build a GY6 or CN-250 they will not hold up since they are a piece of crap to begin with. But yet they are the ones who shop for the cheapest price then slam the product. I have said it many times before " you get what you pay for" . The materials used in these parts are the key along with exact specs. When you do build your Yerf motor use the best parts available and you will have no problems. God knows how many hours I have on my 150 engine built in 2007 in its present form. I have had no problems out of it and I beat the living crap out of the engine. Sure when ever you push something beyond their intended purpose you will have more go wrong with it, even a $13,000.00 RZ will fail after hours of abuse.

Glad to hear your project is holding up under the abuse you are giving it. Driving it is much more fun then working on it all the time.

[metalstudman1]

Tom- Once again -WELL SAID

[SYCARMS]

Happy FatherDay to all the dads out there in buggyworld.

[metalstudman1]

Update: After another 40-50 hr week with the kid's driving it continuously they went to a friend's house for the evening. I decided I go play for a few!!! the wife had brought the camera and was shootig some vid and she actually caught a breakage on camera(it never happens!!) It snapped the grade 8 bolt/spindle off right at the weld behind the 1/4" re-enforcement plate. Since I had made duplicates it was and easy fix/replacement- So I finally have a FAILURE on this front end design.
Short vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je1hl...ature=youtu.be

[x-bird]

could see it start to go in that washboard section close to the vid shooter. nothing like ready to go spares ....

[metalstudman1]

Here's pic's of the parts- clean shear from too much horizontal load, was glad to see that my welding didn't cause this!!!!

[T3beatz]

Always sucks to have a failure! good thing you were not going very fast when it broke apart.

[metalstudman1]

A "Failure"- It's inevitable if you play hard!!! All we can do it try to prolong the intervals!!! And you're right -glad it happened when it did and not at 30mph's in a tight trail with horse flies buzzing me!!!

[T3beatz]

LOL! horse flys can be a pain in the but, I always think they are wasp or bees so I over react. The crazy thing is they didn't start coming around until this year.

[SYCARMS]

What if instead of the bolt you make an actual stepped spindle? It will require most likely new hubs but I believe it would solve the shearing problem. I have never broke a hub on any of the buggies I own except the Yerf which uses the bolt.

TOM

[metalstudman1]

I agree totally Tom. Ckau's spindle looks like what I need and I have some ATV spindles that look promising (similar to the Crossfire,Dune150,Punisher application. My goal all along has been to make a mod. that most do-it-yourselfers can do with minumal tooling and skill. I'm amazed the bolts held up as long as they did with the newer type abuse my daughter has figured out it will take!! My little leaping over the mounds on that clear area from the vid is nothing compared to the stuff my daughter does there with her friends riding along. I think I just finished off an already failing bolt with that vid.
My mod's along with other dedicated individuals are continually making this particular buggy something worth owning and operating with the higherend buggies for an entry-level amount of dollars!! I'm having fun trying if nothing else & my family is enjoying it as well-"win-win".
By posting all these pieces of information helps create a data base for others to work off of and eliminate possible ideas with confirmed results "good or bad" or add to the modifications till we get a viable solution for the least amount of money and effort. Sorry for babbling!!!

[SYCARMS]

Not babble, point well taken. The yerf was desighed as a yard kart and was never intended to take the abuse especially from us big kids. I had single seaters and when this yerf come along my intentions were to use the engine to build a better motor for my single seater then put the engine from the single in the yerf, and have a 2 seater. Well after about 3 hours of driving I realised I would have to redesign the whole buggy since after ridding besides not having reverse I would soon have to get some dentures due to the jolting ride on fairly smooth level ground and if anyone had dentures and had driven it we would be searching for those dentures in the field. LOL. You Ckau and a few others have done what I did not want to take charge of and that is to redesign the buggy to take the abuse. Many of these buggies are still out there and can be had really cheap. What you and the others have done with the yerf has been inspirering to those who still own them and want to make it a ridding machine for the older abusive kids. I almost went the route of getting the HD parts from buggy depot before I learned from others that they hold up much better but still fail after time. I still plan on making mine into a single seat drag buggy with a larger plant in it. The yerf I believe is the lightest thing out there and when I race against an atv I am more then twice the weight of one with a comparable size engine, shoot I'm heavier then a 400EX Honda. That hurts when dragging. Keep up the great work.

[metalstudman1]

Figured I'd make an update: after 5 months+ no issues on the A-arms or the rubber bushings Spare spindle is holding up very well too.
Now that the kid's have started back to school the Spiderbox won't be beat-up for endless hrs. each day. I'm going to swap to a fresher motor very soon as it's really lost it's pep on the low-end (something has been "off" since it got rolled) It still runs well but from a stand still it just doesn't pull as hard, with 2 adults in it, got to have a running start at most hills now & it's not an auto clutch issue.

[T3beatz]

What do you think might be the problem with the motor? Think the rings might need to be changed out?
I'm probably gonna need to change out the head on my 150, it's doing ok but I'll probably throw on one of the simple BBK's.

Good to hear about the A-arms, mine are pretty much done! I need new bushings pronto.

[SYCARMS]

I can't imagine rolling it doing anything to the motor, it may just be coincendental. However if a compression issue performance would suffer throughout the power range. I would have to think CVT issues.

[metalstudman1]

No CVT!!-Honda TRX200SX ATV engine in this thing- When the kid rolled it he held the throttle wide open for almost a minute till I got to him & shut it off-I drove it ride before he rolled and right after and could feel something wasn't the same, but thought it was an auto-clutch issue. It runs perfectly from idle to WOT & pulls excellent from 2,000rpm's up. No doubt it needs a rebuilt since this engine is an un-altered stock early 90's engine. I have a spare '97 engine for it- with the kid's driving everyday I decided to wait till school started to put it in the shop for the swap. I need to paint the swingarm,A-arms,spindles and do some other small maintenance items to it anyways.

[SYCARMS]

From your description I still cannot see the problem in the engine. If the engine was low on power you would notice a difference at all rpm ranges. Being your problem is with just starting out and good throughout the rest of the power range I would still suspect something in either the clutch or transmission. The rollover with engine still running would not hurt the head or rings since this is where the oil went, the roller bearing and needle bearing will not be affected too much at all since it wasn't run too long inverted. But the clutch would take the biggest hit since I believe that engine is basically the same as the TRX250sx for it is a wet clutch system and they don't like not being soaked in oil. It's great that you have a spare to swap out. You can always go through the old one and build a killer engine if you ever felt the need for more speed .

[metalstudman1]

Thanx Tom for added information that confirmed my original thoughts. I've got 5 of them I need to rebuild!!!I'm curious as to how well they will run when freshly re-built since they've done so well used and abused.

[SYCARMS]

I think a fresh rebuild with a cam it would be a monster in those buggies.

[metalstudman1]

Sorry for the L-O-N-G delayed response. Figured I'd update this thread with some results over nearly 8 yrs of use and abuse! Engine (Honda trx200sx) is about WORE out and in need of a rebuild. The front-end mod's have held up and I've not done any repairs on it. My daughter is now 15 and my size and WAY more abusive with the buggy than I was!!! My original rear axle mod to a 1-1/4" hex(from a Jehm Green machine) has proven to be one of the best improvements I ever did to the Spiderbox. I will include some pic's/vid's very soon just to provide visual documentation. FYI- I still haven't painted any of the front-end components!

[SYCARMS]

Glad your back

[metalstudman1]

Here's some muddy pic's from today.

[metalstudman1]

My daughter did remind me that I had to replace the shifter cable about a year ago. Her slamming the shifter so hard is why and she's learned that it doesn't take much effort to shift and the cable might last awhile now.

[metalstudman1]

I go online looking for rebuild parts for the Honda trx200sx and came across a the same motor on E-bay for $55. +$100+ for freight- all the others listed are in the $400. range and I send him a message to see if he had done a compression check before parting out the starter,stator and pull start. He hadn't so I gambled since it was sooooo cheap($156. total) and bought it. It came today and it appears it's be a very low hours 80's engine. I'll find out this week if I got a steal of a deal and if it runs as good as it appears.

[SYCARMS]

Good Luck

[metalstudman1]

Well sometimes we get luckyThe E-bay engine was well worth the risk. It runs perfect, no smoke and plenty of power.The replacement was 1/3rd the price of a new top-end rebuild. The rain has moved in and I'll shoot some video in a couple of days with it's new heart-beat.

[metalstudman1]

It was almost dark when we got in today,dry & about 50 degrees out so the daughter & her girlfriend and I took the Spiderbox and the Franken-buggy out for a quick drag race up the street to see if the newer motor runs as good as I think it does. Gps showed 42mph in a 1000'.Both buggies are exactly the same since I changed the gearing on the Franken-buggy (from a 39 tooth to a 44 tooth) Perfect for our trails and the Spiderbox has it's ZIP back! I'll still try to get some video- VERY muddy on our track/trails still. I'm still amazed at the durability of this power plant and how well it pulls this buggy around with 2 people in it.

[metalstudman1]

Well all good things must come to an end- Had to pull the Spiderbox in the shop due to a BENT rack & pinion shaft. Must have been bent for a while as I noticed the steering radius declining (needing more turn around space) but couldn't see why. After a hard day of mudding my daughter had to walk home from the trails with a frown on her face saying she broke the buggy The rack unit had torn itself from the frame, bracket and all. Ordered a replacement and now we wait. It's been a LONG time for a breakage such as this so I can't complain.

[metalstudman1]

Since I had it in the shop I decided to inspect it a little closer. As it turns out a combination of things contributed to the steering failure. Couple a years ago a newby hit a tree with the drivers front A-arm/wheel but it didn't appear there was any major damage- after removing the A-arms the drivers side arms were bent at the connection plate (had to force/hammer it off), the 1/2" heims & 3/8" machine bolts were bent even though the heim was fully threaded in. I also didn't realize how heavy the spindle and hubs were that I replaced 8 years ago (changed them out with trailer hubs w/matching tapered spindles). Have a feeling that extra weight may have contributed to some of the damage. I went out to the junk pile and found some golf cart spindles and hubs which are much lighter but just as heavy-duty. I'm now making new A-arms to work with the golf cart hubs. I have to say that the heim/A-arm mod. did last awhile-almost 8 years!! & my daughter,wife and guests aren't exactly gentle on the buggy. I'll get some pics tomorrow for anyone that's interested in this conversion/modification as an alternative to the other mod,'s that have been done in the past by many of us.

[x-bird]

Welcome back Metal! Glad to see you're still into it. as strange as the name sounds, Ford Think golf carts had 12" steel rims that match the 4/4 bolt pattern if you ever go looking for a low cost rim size upgrade. I currently have a pair on the front of mine, but after 5-6 years of racing at line, they're wasted. Also fairly new on the market are 4/4 to 4/156 adapters. A lot of Razr take off rims with 26" tires are out there cheap if you ever wanted to go that big.

[metalstudman1]

Thanx X-bird for the welcome back, I have been following your adventures- I have 10" wheels and can't go any bigger with the set-up I have right now. I figured for anyone interested that I'd show what 8 years of abuse does to the 1/2" heims on the A-arms (pics below)and the machine bolt at the spindle. I also made some progress on the new A-arms and golf cart spindles. I forgot how much measuring is involved in just getting the KPI (king pin inclination),the caster (9 degrees) is built into the front plate of the Spiderbox so that didn't have to be calculated. I went with 10 degrees for the KPI, a welding error of an 1/8" difference in the A-arm length changed the KPI by 3 degrees, so I had to cut and re-weld one arm. The conversation about even & un-even A-arms has come full circle!! I now have un-even A-arms, the golf cart spindles had them built into the set-up so I went with it. Won't know if it's an improvement until I test drive it. Rack replacement will be here tomorrow so that chore will take some time to figure out. I still have to make the steering tabs based off where I need to move the rack since these spindles are totally different than the ones I'd made before. It's still raining so the kid's aren't suffering! Maybe I'll get to test it this weekend (no rain in the forecast). I also included a pic of the trailer hub/spindles I took off (about twice as heavy)

[x-bird]

If you want to add front brakes to that, jakes brakes sells a rotor and stud set and with a backside stud for bolting the rotor to. just knock out the factory studs, add a caliper mount and done deal. They will sell the parts individually. if you go to 5/8ths heims, no more bending. i've bent 2 so far, but only from big hits.

[metalstudman1]

The front brakes has been discussed by the family many times- I have plenty of front hubs with brakes/rotors (even off a LTZ) but everyone says that half the fun is being able to slide the back end, so no brakes. I'm going to try these hubs to see if they perform well (no heims in this set-up)

[ckau]

Originally Posted by metalstudman1

The front brakes has been discussed by the family many times- I have plenty of front hubs with brakes/rotors (even off a LTZ) but everyone says that half the fun is being able to slide the back end, so no brakes. I'm going to try these hubs to see if they perform well (no heims in this set-up)

Have the best of both worlds.... A inline brake bios valve installed in the fronts. Full off = full braking in front and rear. Full on = rear braking only. This can switched on the fly too. This particular unit is a Wilwood with detent positions between full on/ off for percentage of front braking power. I have all kinds of fun with this thing!

[SYCARMS]

For those who have buggies with the duo rod master you can fabricate a new split brake pedal as found on most farm tractors.

[metalstudman1]

Originally Posted by ckau

Have the best of both worlds.... A inline brake bios valve installed in the fronts. Full off = full braking in front and rear. Full on = rear braking only. This can switched on the fly too. This particular unit is a Wilwood with detent positions between full on/ off for percentage of front braking power. I have all kinds of fun with this thing!

It's a line brake!!! like I had on my bracket cars back in the day. Hadn't thought of that as a braking system but will give it some thought. Another reason this hadn't been contemplated was that the Spiderbox is so light it's never had an issue with stopping power and all the near impacts haven't occurred due to braking (that I'm aware of). Now both the Franken-buggies have front brakes as the need them!

Tom-I'm very familiar with the dual brake pedals as I implemented that system in my old dune buggies to help steer/traction control in rough terrain.
I should be able to test the steering/travel tomorrow with the rain almost gone.

[metalstudman1]

It seems I got lucky again and the Spider box drives well. I don't feel any scrubbing or bump steer.Turning radius is just OK (better than stock but not as tight as I'd like it) The spindles & kingpin from the golf cart are a good alternative for someone wanting to modify their buggy (especially with un-even A-arms), I could see using these parts with the original A-arms by simply removing the ball joint tab and replacing it with a horizontal tube sleeved bushing- this set-up eliminates the failures/maintenance of the ball joint completely. I used the tube sleeve/bushings that were on the golf cart A-arm and found a piece of tubing the same size of the leaf spring bushing (leaf spring is tempered steel). Other than cutting,welding and grinding it was pretty simple and of course very inexpensive!!

[metalstudman1]

Once again I'm posting a catastrophic failure!!! The Spiderbox has been such a good toy and provided MANY hours of fun. It has had many improvements/upgrades and it's been abused over & over again, it amazes me how much abuse this thing has sustained without damage to the original chassis but the day has finally come. I warned my daughter about the weight capacity. As our guests continue to get older they get larger! One of my daughters friends is a large person now and I'm convinced that contributed to the failure it caused this last week. It's rained & stayed relativity warm so the playing hasn't stopped till now. The pics. below may be hard to understand without viewing the whole kart but it amounts to a chassis that took all it could take from jumps off a 12' +/- hill over and over.The hill is in the far right of the video that is followed by screams! I've yet to disassemble it for repair as I was trying to get the Frankenbuggy #2 fully operational and out of the shop. The good news in all this is that the front-end repair/modification performed flawlessly and isn't damaged,so my efforts will be confined to the rear this time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHvW49zkvOw

[SYCARMS]

I'm surprised it lasted this long. Being that the Chinese use mostly recycled metal. During the smelting process all other minerals are skimmed out of the metal and I believe are not added back so the new metal will fatigue easily and crack. If you have access to a tubing bender I would just buy some American made tubing and make a new carrier.