Drive/torque pully mod for more belt travel

[bear]

I think if Tom said it, its gospel!!!

[Johnny 5]

I would try the 9/10.5 first. I ran this combo first in the blue buggy with the 183cc motor and on the street it would take off and move out pretty quick. But when we got to the desert it was too much constant rpm for long rides and had to keep the motor at 7000rpms to go any were.

Mb1134 what size sprockets do you have and do you know the internal gearing is ?

[mb1134]

I have no idea what size sprocket and internal gearing. Im not really trying to change all that. Maybe the sprocket sooner or later. I have a new Trailmaster XRX 150 if that helps.

[xlint89]

I think I saw some guys run all 6 of the same weights. Different ramp shapes take care of the hi/low. Maybe try that?

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by xlint89

I think I saw some guys run all 6 of the same weights. Different ramp shapes take care of the hi/low. Maybe try that?

I thought about that. I believe imgoing to try the 9/10.5 though. Just hate to keep testing and taking it apart. Still need to finish installing the new radio.

[SLESTAK75]

So MB did you get to test top speed?? That Motorio pulley comes set in the race groove. I just switched mine to the other groove yesterday but haven't got to test yet. I think it will shift better and just work better for a buggy.

[mb1134]

I tested it, but the buggy wasnt fully warmed up is my guess as i only warmedit up for a couple minutes and made a quick 5 minute ride. There was absolutely no increase from the usual 35-36. That was with the motorio set in 9/12.5 rollers. Maybe i will notice a difference once the buggy is completely warmed up, or maybe its just the Trailmaster buggies. The bottom end had more pep, but the buggy was shifting around 20mph. How did you change the groove and how were your results?

[SLESTAK75]

I've not tested yet. In order to change grooves you must remove the cover that has the spring seat on it. This was no easy task it's on there very tight. I head to pry and pry. Then you remove the 3 pins and spin the pulley till the pinholes line up with the other grooves and reassemble. Also not easy. Did you match your intake and exhaust to the ports on the head? This could give you the extra power to open that pulley on up. The belt does go deeper into this pulley and that will give more top end. It's just a matter of getting it tuned to squeeze that variator together. I don't have the dr2 but I'm running 11 gram sliders and that works good for me.

[mb1134]

I played with it a little more this weekend and threw 9/10.5 rollers in. I got it above the 35mph mark but not the 5-7mph claimed by the pulley and variator. I havent port matched the intake and exhaust yeat either, as im a little leary of screwing something up or getting shavings down in the head. May find me a machine shop or ATV place around here to clean it up and possibly polish it. Im still testing main jets while im at it. I popped a 136 in there this weekend and am thinking of trying a step or 2 larger. or i may just buy the drill bits and drill out some old ones i cant use. What size main jet are you using?

[Johnny 5]

That is a big jet, what size was the stock one?

Both our dune 150s came with 114 main 34 pilot.

I tried a 125 on the blue dune 150 before any major mods only a uni filter and 10 gram rollers and it ran very bad.

The blue dune 150 now a 183cc with a12 cam mild ported head and 3/4 tip stock modified muffler is now running a 125 main. Plug is dark.

The red dune 150 with a high compression srp 58.5 piston a 12 cam mild ported head same muffler 3/4 tip mod is running a 122 main. Plug is light tan.

Does your buggy have a egr system?

What sise is the muffler tip/ opening? Our buggies came with a 5/8 opening tip.

[mb1134]

I started with a 130 with Toms advice. It seemed like it ran ok, until i swapped out to the R2C filter. Then it was just running crappy. So i tried a couple bigger ones, because my plug wasn't coming out tan. Its got a little tanness on the arc with the 136 in it now. Just trying to see what works best. I may actually go back to the 135 when all is said and done, as it seemed to run a tad better. I dont know about you, but i am up in a fairly high elevation. All i know is keep trying til its right.

No EGR system that i know of and i have no idea what the opening is for the FMF muffler.

[SLESTAK75]

Okay you answered one question I had. I am running a 130 and I am around 1200 feet above sea level with an a12 cam a ported polished and milled big valve head with matched intake and exhaust. I did not get full motion from my cvt until I put sliders in. Since you are going with 2 separate weights I would recommend finding the weight combo that gives you the most desirable shift characteristics and then replace (at least) the heavies with sliders of the same weight. Both would be better but of coarse cost more but you would at least have a spare set. You would benefit greatly from matching exhaust and intake to the ports. Next post.

[SLESTAK75]

Matching the ports is not very hard. For the exhaust. When I removed mine I noticed that the hole in the flange where it mounts to the head was smaller than the inside of the exhaust pipe. I just opened it to match the inside of the pipe. You have to do it off the engine so no shavings in the engine. I used stone grinders from the hardware store. They were 2 dollars each, fit in a drill, and it took 3-4 per part. I used a flat sided rounded point for the exhaust and sphere for the intake. For the intake you remove the carb and unbolt the intake. Feel around inside and note where the lip is and then remove the intake and spacer and grind them until they match. An easier way would be to match the spacer first (grinding off of the engine and putting it back only to measure progress) then once you have it matched to the port use it to match the intake. The sphere works really good to open up the inside angle on the intake. Once you have the intake port matched you open up the angle to match both ends of the intake. You will see and feel when this is right. You don't want any narrow points inside the intake. You also do not want to smooth the inside of the intake with sandpaper. Leave it rough. Or you could buy a 30mm intake. This of coarse would cost more money and would mis match slightly larger but better than restriction. Matched is best though.

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by mb1134

I tested it, but the buggy wasnt fully warmed up is my guess as i only warmedit up for a couple minutes and made a quick 5 minute ride. There was absolutely no increase from the usual 35-36. That was with the motorio set in 9/12.5 rollers. Maybe i will notice a difference once the buggy is completely warmed up, or maybe its just the Trailmaster buggies. The bottom end had more pep, but the buggy was shifting around 20mph. How did you change the groove and how were your results?

So at this point your shift starts at 20 mph. If you go lighter on the lights this will cause the Rpms to get higher and the shift to start later, heavier will start sooner with lower Rpms. I would imagine that too great of a difference between the heavy and light would cause them to interfere with one another. But the lower your combined weight the less likely you are to completely close the variator at top speed causing you not to reach your potential top speed. It's enough of a challenge to find the right weight with a regular variator let alone one that uses two different weight but if tuned in right it's going to be the best you can get.

[mb1134]

Slestak75, how did it run in the other groove? Kinda curious if its worth the hassle of disassembling it to make the switch. Nothing like holding the clutch in place for my wife to try over an over to put the flat nut on.

[SLESTAK75]

Sorry ill try to give it a run today and let you know. I know your pain. Mine is holding it together while my 12 year old boy tries over and over. I had a leak from the cover plate in the cvt so I had to tear it down and just went ahead and changed it over. I am looking for the Rpms to get up a bit more than they were and I think they will in this other groove.

[Johnny 5]

When changing the clutch or spring on the pulley I put it on the ground and hold it with my heels and install the nut. It does help to have a second person to put it on.

Should be getting my motorio pulley today and going to change back to the 39t sprocket
and going up to all 11 gram sliders from 10/11 mixed.

With the 39t was getting 28/29mph top speed hoping for 34/35 with this set up.
Top speed was 37mph with the 31t but slow on take off and couldnt do doughnuts.

I got to make the doughnuts.

[SLESTAK75]

So with the stock groove the overall shift was much better. With the race groove it revved up quick then hit a spot where the rpms seemed to hit a wall when the shift started. It stayed dead on that rpm till the shift was complete and then the rpms continued upward. It seems to pull better with the stock groove and it didnt have that odd brick wall effect. Didnt get a gps yet as there is thick cloud cover, but top speed felt even better. cant wait to get gps. The race groove may be good on a scooter but the stock is definitely the way to go on a buggy.

@Johnny How did you like the shift with the 10/11 combo? Do you feel like it gave you a fully closing variator? Also did you ever run rollers in your DR2 so that you could give a comparison between them and sliders? I know on my normal variator I didnt get the belt to the top of the pulley even with 14 gram rollers. It wasnt until I put sliders on that I got that variator squeezed together. I will get a tad more top end when I shave my pin. The drive face I got has that 1mm lip on it that keeps the halves apart slightly. I'll make up for that by shaving the pin. HE HE.

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

So with the stock groove the overall shift was much better. With the race groove it revved up quick then hit a spot where the rpms seemed to hit a wall when the shift started. It stayed dead on that rpm till the shift was complete and then the rpms continued upward. It seems to pull better with the stock groove and it didnt have that odd brick wall effect. Didnt get a gps yet as there is thick cloud cover, but top speed felt even better. cant wait to get gps. The race groove may be good on a scooter but the stock is definitely the way to go on a buggy.

@Johnny How did you like the shift with the 10/11 combo? Do you feel like it gave you a fully closing variator? Also did you ever run rollers in your DR2 so that you could give a comparison between them and sliders? I know on my normal variator I didnt get the belt to the top of the pulley even with 14 gram rollers. It wasnt until I put sliders on that I got that variator squeezed together. I will get a tad more top end when I shave my pin. The drive face I got has that 1mm lip on it that keeps the halves apart slightly. I'll make up for that by shaving the pin. HE HE.

I would like to know what your top speed was with the race groove and the stock groove. You have me contemplating switching the grooves.

[SLESTAK75]

I didn't get a top speed with the race groove. Weather didnt permit a good test. For me its worth it to change it. I would take it apart again to change it. It's not so much the change in top speed as it is the overall performance. The overall performance improved alot. The cvt responds much more like it should. The choice is yours but I wouldn't recommend that race groove. I looked on the specs for your buggy and it claims a top speed of 43mph. When (if) you take it apart take a look at the marks on the variator and see if the belt is making it to the top. Does the dr2 come with a drive face too? And if so does it have that little lip that keeps the variator halves apart slightly?

[Johnny 5]

I tried the 9/10.5 rollers first on the dr2 with the 18x14 variator and it would rev high all the time, like 7000 rpms at full throttle on take off untill the shift is maxed out and would hit 8200rpm and it was done. I switched to 10/11 sliders and it felt better, couldnt really feel the shift with the 9/10 rollers.

This is on the blue 183cc motor that has good torque and with the 31/16t set up it slips the clutch on take off and lets the motor rev up too fast and shifts up then the clutch grabs and it boggs. I tried another thicker clutch and same thing on take off it slips the clutch hard, also have a ncy cluth bell with the holes for cooling.

That is why I am putting the 39t sprocket back on and hoping to get a little more speed with the motorio pulley, if that dosnt work probally will try the 14/38 2.70 internal gears
that will put it kinda in the middle of the 39/31 rear sprockets. Cant find a 35t bolt on sprocket, atvsonline says they have a 31/35/39t sprockets but the 35t is on back order.
Also this buggy is for my wife and son and needs to go through sandy river beds without slowing down.

The red buggy with the kid n me dr2 with the 20mm rollers has a awesome upshift feel. You can hear it in the motor/exhaust when it revs high on take off and then it shifts and has a good pull. Running 8/9 rollers and they feel like the 10/11 sliders .

I think the larger rollers have more leverage and that is why it runs good with the lightest set. When we first tried the 20mm dr2 we ran the 11/9 rollers and it shifted like the stock variator with the 14 gram rollers. Went to 10/8 and still shifted too fast, last fall I ran the 9/8 combo and am done with changing weight this is the sweet spot for the red buggy. Last trip was when I added the .80mm shim to spread the pulley a bit and it is perfect. I wasnt able to get the TTO mini tachometer to work on this buggy so no rpm data. I had to add wire to it and the guage was too thick and killed the signal.

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

I tried the 9/10.5 rollers first on the dr2 with the 18x14 variator and it would rev high all the time, like 7000 rpms at full throttle on take off untill the shift is maxed out and would hit 8200rpm and it was done. I switched to 10/11 sliders and it felt better, couldnt really feel the shift with the 9/10 rollers.

This is on the blue 183cc motor that has good torque and with the 31/16t set up it slips the clutch on take off and lets the motor rev up too fast and shifts up then the clutch grabs and it boggs. I tried another thicker clutch and same thing on take off it slips the clutch hard, also have a ncy cluth bell with the holes for cooling.

That is why I am putting the 39t sprocket back on and hoping to get a little more speed with the motorio pulley, if that dosnt work probally will try the 14/38 2.70 internal gears
that will put it kinda in the middle of the 39/31 rear sprockets. Cant find a 35t bolt on sprocket, atvsonline says they have a 31/35/39t sprockets but the 35t is on back order.
Also this buggy is for my wife and son and needs to go through sandy river beds without slowing down.

The red buggy with the kid n me dr2 with the 20mm rollers has a awesome upshift feel. You can hear it in the motor/exhaust when it revs high on take off and then it shifts and has a good pull. Running 8/9 rollers and they feel like the 10/11 sliders .

I think the larger rollers have more leverage and that is why it runs good with the lightest set. When we first tried the 20mm dr2 we ran the 11/9 rollers and it shifted like the stock variator with the 14 gram rollers. Went to 10/8 and still shifted too fast, last fall I ran the 9/8 combo and am done with changing weight this is the sweet spot for the red buggy. Last trip was when I added the .80mm shim to spread the pulley a bit and it is perfect. I wasnt able to get the TTO mini tachometer to work on this buggy so no rpm data. I had to add wire to it and the guage was too thick and killed the signal.

Its funny you mention the sound it made when it hit its shift point on the variator. I notice it to when it switches from the 9 to the 10.5. I have some 8g rollers coming in and am planning on using them on the low side and maybe the 9g on the heavy side.

Slestak...What part do you adjust for the groove? The only thing i was abe to tell when i had the pulley before install was how it spins and opens up. Any help in swapping it over would be greatly appreciated.

[SLESTAK75]

Do you have the 20mm roller style variator mb or standard size? When you lay the pulley on the table with the shaft facing up. The lip that the spring sits in is the bottom part of the cover for the groove channels. I had to take a hammer and tap a screwdriver under the lip in order to loosen it. Then twist and pull up to remove. It's on there pretty tight to the point that I thought it wasn't removable. Once this cover is off you will see the groove channels. Just remove the three pins (they come right out) and spin that half of the pulley until the holes line up in the next groove then replace pins and cover. The cover was as difficult to replace as it was to remove. I had to tap it with the hammer to get the cover on. Be careful not to hit it hard. Then voila

[mb1134]

I have the sandard size 18x14. By the looks of the heavy grooves i am kinda nervous about using sliders in it. What do you think? I am afraid the heavy sliders might fall down once opened and the variator would not close all the way. I may rip herapart this evening and try to set the groove. Also yo usaid you filed down the groove on the variator lip?

J5, what are your thoughts on 10/12 sliders? I have a full set of both sitting around.

[SLESTAK75]

I didn't file anything yet. I am going to have my pin milled .020" so the halves can close tighter. Only because I bought a drive face that added a 1mm lip where the pin contacts it causing the halves to be held apart slightly. I noticed that the dr2 doesn't have this. The sliders will work anywhere that rollers will. Because of the shape of the sliders they squeeze the variator halves closer together and allow that belt to go a bit higher than with rollers. I don't have a dr2 but for what you are wanting I think that slider combo would work great. Overall weight would be equal to all 11s, but due to the design and weight choices your low and high should be a bit better.

[mb1134]

well i bought some 8g rollers for low end, but like i said i really dont feel likeswapping constantly to find a happy medium. I guess i will give the sliders a try. By the way, know anyone who is looking for an almost new Dr Pulley?

[SLESTAK75]

I can fully appreciate not wanting to keep tearing into it. In doing so I now need to reweld my muffler because icracked a weld on it. I didn't want to tear it down to change the groove but the crankcase cover was leaking and I had to anyways. I think you will be well pleased with the results using the sliders. When I switched my belt went a full 1/4" further up the variator.

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

I can fully appreciate not wanting to keep tearing into it. In doing so I now need to reweld my muffler because icracked a weld on it. I didn't want to tear it down to change the groove but the crankcase cover was leaking and I had to anyways. I think you will be well pleased with the results using the sliders. When I switched my belt went a full 1/4" further up the variator.

Oh really? What was the difference in the new and old belt?

[SLESTAK75]

Sorry, I need to be better about using punctuation. It should have read: when I changed (to sliders) , my belt... same belt, but the sliders pushed it further up the variator than the heaviest rollers would.

[mb1134]

i gotcha. Planning on taking it apart tonight and trying to figure out how to put the pulley in the normal groove. Hope it works out good. I dont wanna be dissapointed and change it back. My wife might kill me if she has to keep putting that nut on. lol

[SLESTAK75]

don't forget to put the sliders in while ya got it apart

[SLESTAK75]

One thing I see that will help ; I know I go back to this but I will elaborate , You have an a-10 cam which is a top end cam. At top speed that cam and head are wanting to move alot more air than the intake and exhaust are able to move. Depending on the maker that exhaust may be okay but if you are using a stock exhaust gasket you are restricting it. Ebay has a gasket from NYC that solves that (link at bottom). But also if the flange opening is smaller than the inside of the pipe also restriction. The intake is definitely restricted. You have the filter, muffler, head, and cam for great top end power (which is what you need to get that top speed up) but with the restrictions those parts are nowhere near as affective as they could be. If the engine is struggling at the top end it won't produce the power needed to open that pulley and close that variator. That's all I've got to say about that.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOOTER-150c...332fcc&vxp=mtr

[SLESTAK75]

This is my very crude rendition of whats going on in there. At each restricted point there is turbulence and the higher the rpms the greater the turbulence

[mb1134]

Well i ordered the gasket. I will look into doing the porting, but not to comfortable doing it myself incase i screw it up. Love the drawings.

[Johnny 5]

mb1134 I also have 10/12 sliders but the 10 gram sliders have the most run time and wear. Last trip when we broke the frame next to the chain adjuster bracket had to drive back about 4 miles going slow and noticed that the clutch was grabing hard at low speed and it was lugging and lazy off idle.

The point Im trying to get to is that we had put 10/11 gram sliders in and the 11 grams were new and the 10 grams were worn like a year old. When we got home to take a look at the variator it was stuck in the half way closed position because one of the sliders had fallen back and stuck the variator. I dont know if it was a 10 or 11 forgot to pay atention. But for some reason when driving back one of the sliders must of stuck and fell back, might be because the worn and the new werent working together well.

The thing I dont get is we ran this set up hard and fast no problem, broke the frame and drove back slow and it started chugging and that is when the slider fell back just one.

It may be from the old 10g and newer 11g sliders so maybe best if they are both fairly new. Also make sure you put the sliders in the right way because they can be put in wrong because I did. The tallest part of the slider should be vertical to the pin.

[Johnny 5]

I am going to put my pulley on now just came in today. I was able to spin the collar about half a rotation and it slid right off, was on very tight. Dont cut your hand on the collar when rotating it use a old t shirt or rag.

Going to put it in the stock groove first and probally leave it.

I did measure the belt distance when fulley open and it sits about 3mm deeper.

[mb1134]

Well i also changed mine lastnight. It came off failry easy. I thought it may be a hassle from what Slestak said, but it twisted and slid right off. Grooves dont seem to be much different from what i recall.

I also swapped out the rollers to 10/12 sliders. Hoping this will work out good for what i want. I guess we will see, as i also had some cheap looking 8g rollers come in from Northwest Buggy Parts.

I was going to test her out, but i stripped the nut holding the clutch bell on and will have to grab another one at the hardware store today. Glad i picked up a set of craftsman stripped bolt removers a while back. So when i go home today i will put the jackstands underneath her and leave the cover off to see how far up the belt travels. It didnt look to me like the belt came up much on the variator at all, or maybe it was just due to the short ride previously.

[Johnny 5]

Hey mb can you use the nut from your old clutch? I was putting my motrion pulley on last night and it came with a new nut and it was silver and it dosnt seem to get tight and Im afraid it will also strip. So today I will use the nut from the old clutch and tighten it in the vise and then hit it lightly with my 3/8 impact gun. I thought I stripped the new pulley last night but it seems like the nut that came with it is softer metal.

[mb1134]

im talking about the 17mm nut on the outside of the clutch bell.

Answer me this. Our pulley has that sleeve that the torque spring rests against. The one we take off to adjust the groove. I have a slightly bigger sleeve on the end of my main spring also. Does this sleeve go against the clutch itself, or does it fit over the sleeve on the pulley? I may have mine on backwards not allowing my pulley to open fully.

[SLESTAK75]

It goes on the clutch end thus securing both ends of the spring.

Hopefully you didn't strip the shaft threads.

[mb1134]

just the nut

[SLESTAK75]

Please enjoy my kindergarten-like renditions of cvt functions.

[mb1134]

Slestak is the man!!!!

[SLESTAK75]

I just have no job at the moment, so sitting around drawing crude pics on Windows Paint gives me a sense of purpose.

[mb1134]

Sounds like a true purpose in life. One of these days i will find my calling. hopefully i will find a nut at ace or somewhere andrun this dirty girl this evening and chck the belt travel.

[Johnny 5]

I got my pulley installed and am runnig 11 gram slider left the cover off and bungied the exhaust and left the wheels off to see how much farther it would go. It went about 1mm higher and thats it, but when it was shut off the slider fell back again in the s slot just one and the belt was half way on each pulley. I decided to run the 10.5/12.5 rollers because I still have to put a start clutch in the red buggy. I dont think the 18mm dr2 likes sliders? I have lots of rollers so no big deal.

It really takes off hard on the street with no wheel spin and the 39t back on, we will see this weekend what top speed it will do. Also the clutch is not slipping like with the 31t.

My neighbor closed his blinds when he saw me ripping up and down the steet, probally just cant handle watching all the fun. After the 10 minuet test I have a buggy buzz that is still got me smiling. Well back to work on the red buggy, cant wait to try the buggys out this weekend.

[mb1134]

I hope the DR2 likes sliders. If not, i just wasted my time. Tom from KidnMe said the sliders will work fine. If nott i guess i will try the 8/9 or 8/10.5 combo. Tried to check belt travel lastnight, but it wouldnt start. Thought it was a bad battery from jamming to my awesome new radio on there, but it wasnt. It was then, at that moment , i realized it was due to the starter not being grounded to the cvt cover. I then let out a sigh of relief.

[SLESTAK75]

I just use a bolt and ground it to an open bolt hole

[mb1134]

Do you know the bolt size? Maybe i can grab one from work and take a look tonight. Calling a guy about having the bead ported and polished today. May get it done next week if the turn around is quick and reasonable pricing.

[Johnny 5]

Make sure you bolt the muffler on and support it with a bungie to the upper frame and I recomend two jack stads and a floor jack for back up. I also take the wheels off just in case and wear safety gogles and dont get to close because this thing is moving crazy fast. I say this because it will vibrate and could come off the jack stands. It almost happend to me, I sound like a worry wart but be carefull. Also let your engine warm up for like 5 minuets at least.

As for the slider falling back in the speed slot I dont know why but my sliders are worn from the doctor pulley variator that was used before. Maybe the wear on the sliders is not working with the ramp design on the motorio variator?

Not trying to worry you about the sliders just my observation, I prefer sliders because they dont flat spot like rollers over time. The 20mm dr2 hasnt flat spotted yet after 2 plus years go figure.

[Miamieddie]

True: subtract 2 from any # on the slider and will give you the equivelant roller size...Eddie.

[SLESTAK75]

@ MB- I just use one of the cvt cover bolts and some washers. If you are going to pay to have the head ported and polished then also find out price for matching the intake, spacer, and exhaust flange, unless you want to do it. You will get a DEFINITE improvement in power with the P&P but again if the intake and exhaust are not matched the increase will be nowhere near as dramatic. After P&P and matching you will also need to upsize the jet again.

@ eddie- I like to subtract 1. Then it acts like 1 lower on the bottom end and 1 higher on the top end.

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

I got my pulley installed and am runnig 11 gram slider left the cover off and bungied the exhaust and left the wheels off to see how much farther it would go. It went about 1mm higher and thats it, but when it was shut off the slider fell back again in the s slot just one and the belt was half way on each pulley. I decided to run the 10.5/12.5 rollers because I still have to put a start clutch in the red buggy. I dont think the 18mm dr2 likes sliders? I have lots of rollers so no big deal.

It really takes off hard on the street with no wheel spin and the 39t back on, we will see this weekend what top speed it will do. Also the clutch is not slipping like with the 31t.

My neighbor closed his blinds when he saw me ripping up and down the steet, probally just cant handle watching all the fun. After the 10 minuet test I have a buggy buzz that is still got me smiling. Well back to work on the red buggy, cant wait to try the buggys out this weekend.

Got an update??????

[xlint89]

Wow, you guys have been busy with these performance pullies, haven't you?

That's great. It allows us to watch the gains from the side lines. Thank you for your time and observations.

[SLESTAK75]

HEY...Thanks for noticing xlint. We did it just for you bro. Johnny had mentioned in another thread that he got up to 35 from 28 on his setup. I know I gained alot but havnt had the chance to GPS yet. It is worth mentioning that these pulleys only "allow" the belt to travel further. As the rear pulley is "driven" by the variator which is attached to the crank. If anything keeps the variator from completely closing; ie. light weights, or those drive faces with the lip, or whatever other reason there could be, then you don't get the full benefit of this pulley.

[Johnny 5]

We got to the desert late about 3pm and got to ride at about 4:30pm and as the sun went down the temp was about 65 or less and the blue buggy ran great in the sand washes and came out of the corners fast but would rpm out to 8600 fast. It also on take off would spin the tires hard and upshift but not too fast like with the31t and clutch slipage.This was with the 10.5/12.5 rollers and the motorio pulley in the stock mode.

We went on a ride the next morning and it was about 78/82 and windy. We were trying to keep up with my brother in law and kids who were on motorcycles and after about 20/30 minuets of 7200/7600 rpms it blew out the gasket just below the starter. It also would not run good when it got hot.

The red buggy with the 31t was cruising at 6000/6400 rpm about 28/30 mph no problem.

I put the 39t back on thinking that my cruise rpm would be lower and probally should of ran heavier rollers like 12/14. The top speed is better, two trips ago it topped out at 28mph with a dr pulley variator and 10/11 sliders and 39t. Same set up with the 31t ran37mph.

After getting back to camp I cleaned the back of the block and put Honda bond silicone on at let it cure for 4 hours or more and back to riding just kept the rpms below 7000 and it would still get hot and vibrate and had no power above 6000 after it got hot.

I am going back to the 31t and going to jet from a 125 to a 127.5 after removing the motor and replacing the gaskets. Also need to save up for a oil cooler.

The last day of our trip I put the 10/12 sliders in and worked great didn't have any problem with the sliders falling back like with the 10/11 or the all 11 set up like before.

I think the sliders need to be at least 2 grams apart to work properly.

So we had a good trip just should of left the 31t on and kept the rpms down that also caused high crank case pressure.

[Johnny 5]

This was the first trip with the 183cc motor in 85 plus weather. The first two trips it was 70 or colder, so the big bore stroke motor is not very good for hot weather as far as I can tell. At night it ran hard and fast with 55 or colder temps. The red 155cc motor also doesn't like the heat but still runs pretty good compared to the 183cc after it gets a 30 minuet run in day time heat.

[SLESTAK75]

I'd like to eventually get some sort of oil cooler for mine as it can get pretty hot in Virginia in the middle of summer. I have thought about using copper tubing to wrap the cylinder and connect to a radiator for water cooling. Just need some sort of pump. Maybe a nitro powered R/C engine connected to a pump so as to not strain the electrical system. Or just a low powered electric pump. So what was your top speed Johnny? I'm giving thought to a 35T. Maybe that will hit that happy medium. Still a lot of pull but get the rpm's down a bit.

[Johnny 5]

My buggy still would hit 39mph and just click 40 before the trail got rough and had to stop. On a longer road it would get to 40 but that is about it and it feels pretty fast , the rpms were 8100 .

I would like a 35t but cant find a bolt on sprocket, was thinking of internal gears but need to stop buying parts for a while, work is slow and I get paid commission.

[SLESTAK75]

I understand that. All I got to do was achieved by Tax Return. So you got a nice little jump in top speed. SWEET.

[SLESTAK75]

Alright. I just got a gps recorded top speed of 45mph up from a previous top speed of 37 (some of that is from the ported and polished and milled head though). I can tell by the marks on my variator that I'm not getting to the top of the variator. I needed a new drive face and ended up getting one with the lip that keeps the variator halves from closing all the way. At some point I will mill the boss pin to make up for that silly lip. Might be good for another 3 mph or so.

[Johnny 5]

Slestak I wouldn't grind your pin and the lip on the drive face fits in the pulley at top speed. I think the lip is to get better low end on take off.

Why don't you get a stock fan pulley that doesn't have the raised lip. And 45mph is no joke, make sure your seat belts are to German torque specs (good-n-tight). We put nice cam lock 4 way belts on both buggies and always wear helmets because if you break a ball joint or tie rod at 45 hang on.

When we are ready for a new buggy the one you have is for sure my top pic. I want more power but air cooled motors are easy and don't want to mess with a radiator behind my head with 220 degree coolant.

[xlint89]

This is great first hand info guys, keep it up.

Johnny, I've read that guys that run the big cc motors like the 180 kinda give the engine time to cool down. There's a lot more heat being generated along with thinner cyl walls as compared to the stock engine.

An oil cooler would benefit you greatly. Maybe do a little research and see if the "performance" cooling fans actually work? More air flow over the cyl fins should help cooling. I was also told to paint my cyl flat black as that's was supposed to help pull the heat out. Might be worth looking into????


Slestak, you got 45 MPH out of your 150cc? That's GREAT. The head mods and port matching had a lot to do with that, but that's still got to be the fastest speed I've read from a stock sized 150cc.

My Yerf I thought was running pretty good and maxxed out at 38 MPH. Another 7 MPH gain over that would be phenominal. I think Metalstudman posted a top speed of 40 MPH on his stock Yerfie. You have a good runner there.

[SLESTAK75]

Yep..37 was my max before mods. But then she ain't exactly "stock" anymore is she? I'm really happy with it.

[buggyMike34]

With my original Carter 155 BBK (2004 Talon)I was hitting 47+ with the 39t, UNI, pipe, 135 main jet(no pilot change)10g rollers in a BD variator, KOSO clutch w/stock bell, A-10 cam, ITP 10" alooys with Carlisle Turf Masters(22").
I think it was the internal gear ratio coupled with the mods of course.
And I promise I was not going downhill in a hurricane-that was REAL GPS MPH...sea level here in southern NJ.
That thing would really cook...would do tight donuts on dry pavement no problem...smoke tires and all! I am trying to figure out that combo now-I am thinking of just throwing the 300ex motor in and calling it done. But that Carter 150 modded keeps me faithful to the GY6 still. Decisions decisions...
-34

[SLESTAK75]

I would say if you had the 39t and getting that kind of speed it was definitely from internal gears. I'm getting that speed with 16t countershaft & 32t axle.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by buggyMike34

With my original Carter 155 BBK (2004 Talon)I was hitting 47+ with the 39t, UNI, pipe, 135 main jet(no pilot change)10g rollers in a BD variator, KOSO clutch w/stock bell, A-10 cam, ITP 10" alooys with Carlisle Turf Masters(22").
I think it was the internal gear ratio coupled with the mods of course.
And I promise I was not going downhill in a hurricane-that was REAL GPS MPH...sea level here in southern NJ.
That thing would really cook...would do tight donuts on dry pavement no problem...smoke tires and all! I am trying to figure out that combo now-I am thinking of just throwing the 300ex motor in and calling it done. But that Carter 150 modded keeps me faithful to the GY6 still. Decisions decisions...
-34

That's the highest speed I've heard yet. VERY nice!!!

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

I would say if you had the 39t and getting that kind of speed it was definitely from internal gears. I'm getting that speed with 16t countershaft & 32t axle.

Slestak, pretty sure that carter engine also uses a 4 valve head if memory serves me correct.

[buggyMike34]

Yes it had the SYM head. That motor was just strong. It really screamed with the mods. Crossed fingers-Trying to get there again-may have to cheat with the 300ex.
-34

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

Slestak I wouldn't grind your pin and the lip on the drive face fits in the pulley at top speed. I think the lip is to get better low end on take off.

Why don't you get a stock fan pulley that doesn't have the raised lip. And 45mph is no joke, make sure your seat belts are to German torque specs (good-n-tight). We put nice cam lock 4 way belts on both buggies and always wear helmets because if you break a ball joint or tie rod at 45 hang on.

When we are ready for a new buggy the one you have is for sure my top pic. I want more power but air cooled motors are easy and don't want to mess with a radiator behind my head with 220 degree coolant.

I do agree while sitting in this thing traveling at 45mph that 45 is no joke. I would say that if you ever consider getting one like mine that you go for the kandi model KD-GKA-2. Mine is a knockoff of this one and has some "cheap ish" issues. Welds and the like. The front end on the Kandi also looks to be more solid. But if you find one cheap. My wheels are cracking at the bolt holes. Other than that its doing pretty good. Definitely running strong with Toms ported and polished head on it.

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by buggyMike34

Yes it had the SYM head. That motor was just strong. It really screamed with the mods. Crossed fingers-Trying to get there again-may have to cheat with the 300ex.
-34

Perhaps when I grow up I'll try one of those 4-valve heads. I've really wanted to put the 59mm big bore on this thing. But I'll wait till I need to replace the bore.

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

Perhaps when I grow up I'll try one of those 4-valve heads. I've really wanted to put the 59mm big bore on this thing. But I'll wait till I need to replace the bore.

The 4-valve would be so nice. I almost bit and bought one, but Tom is out of the one he was currently selling i believe. Plus hes trying to get ahold of some from another manufacturer, Kymco i believe. Those heads however will be over $500.

[SLESTAK75]

WHEW!!!!!!!! Now you know I'm too cheap for that. But I could imagine one of those heads ported and polished.

[SLESTAK75]

After running the stock grooves for a while I am thinking of going back to the racing grooves and running it for a while to get a good comparison. Will get a good GPS of both settings.

[mb1134]

u need to cut all his bs! you told me how much better the stock groove was, so i swapped mine to stock. You are going to drivce me nuts. Although i am thinking of switching to a 2k main spring sso i will wait for your input.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

After running the stock grooves for a while I am thinking of going back to the racing grooves and running it for a while to get a good comparison. Will get a good GPS of both settings.

GPS is good, but see if you can get a timed run on some sort of track. That race groove may really be better in timed laps VS top speed runs.

[SLESTAK75]

I dont at present have access to much more than the neighborhood but Ill see what I can do. Ill see if I can get some timed runs on the straight in front of the house.

[Johnny 5]

When I test run our buggys past our street down the main street I can hear the judist priest song breaking the law breaking the law.

[SLESTAK75]

Ill be sure to bring that to mind next time.

[jmansracerocket]

How the hell did u guys get the stock belt back on with the motorio pulley I can't get mine back on

[SLESTAK75]

You finally getting around to putting that thing on?? It wasn't easy my friend. I applied pressure and spun the belt by hand and it took a while to get it on. I wish there was a slightly longer belt for the short case like there is for the long. I think you would get more out of this setup with a 248 or 250-20-30 belt but I can find no such animal.

[jmansracerocket]

This is ridiclous my hands r killing me trying ro get this thing on

[Johnny 5]

Did you spread the pulley apart a bit and install the belt between the rear pulley and the belt will keep the pulley open. Put it on the variator and crank the motor with the ignition off to take out the slack.

[xlint89]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

You finally getting around to putting that thing on?? It wasn't easy my friend. I applied pressure and spun the belt by hand and it took a while to get it on. I wish there was a slightly longer belt for the short case like there is for the long. I think you would get more out of this setup with a 248 or 250-20-30 belt but I can find no such animal.

Actually, there are 2 I know of. Kid N Me has his 757 while Autotech 355 on Ebay has a 750.

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

Did you spread the pulley apart a bit and install the belt between the rear pulley and the belt will keep the pulley open. Put it on the variator and crank the motor with the ignition off to take out the slack.

That's how I do it. (not that I have one) But I just open up the clutch pulley and let the belt slip down inside. That gives you a lot more slack to install the variator.

[jmansracerocket]

Well got it on and getting a weird loud rattler at middle throttle and didn't put the cvt case back on

[jmansracerocket]

Its def coming from the variator pully side once it starts to slide it makes a loud noise then once u pass that point noise goes away but comes back once u left off I think I need new variator mines kinda beat around the threads

[jmansracerocket]

Or maybe a bad boss pin? Its a certain spot when it slides it does it only a loud grinding noise

[Johnny 5]

I wish you were closer I have 3 stock variators that I don't need . You can get one on ebay for like 25 bucks.

Did you install sliders? and did you put them in the right way? I put my first set in long side down instead of short side down and it would up shift and slow down and upshift slow. It didn't make a noise that I can recall but I had the cover on.

[jmansracerocket]

No still 10 gram rollers I think its the boss pin and variator fan vibrating

[Johnny 5]

Make sure you have it all the way tight. open the rear pulley a bit and move the belt so the fan can sit flush on the pin and tighten it.

[jmansracerocket]

Yeah I took everything apart cleaned it even reversed the boss pin still making a bad rubbing vibration sound from the variator

[jmansracerocket]

just blows my mind it wasn't do this before hand

[jmansracerocket]

well ordered a variator kit off ebay brand new for 23 bucks comes with variator, pin, rollers, fan. hopefully fixes the problem

[jmansracerocket]

Ordered 11 gram sliders and a new gates belt just so cvt will all be new with the shorty clutch and motorio pulley

[jmansracerocket]

Put everything together and she's def quicker off the line but top speed is still 35mph and the variator still making a loud grinding noise

[SLESTAK75]

Definitely want to find that grinding noise. May want to jack it up and run it with the cvt cover off and investgate.

[jmansracerocket]

It does the noise with the cover on and off I just took everything apart again and inspected the rollers 2 of them have nasty cut groves in them :-( good thing I ordered sliders and new variator parts. Ported my head from tom in the mean time came out pretty good and now I'm installing the reverse kit :-)

[jmansracerocket]

Forgot to mention the belt has some wear along the edges I believe all the new parts will fix the problem

[mb1134]

Have you taken the pulley back uff to check it? I noticed on mine that the weld on the back of the new pulley is rubbing on te case and scraping off the aluminuim. I have been getting a weird whining noise from my cvt since the engine was put back together. The guy who put the engine together thought it may be the belt making some racket in there. After taking it apart i noticed the metal shavings and the scratch marks from the pulley.

Slestak, have you changed your groove back yet? I am leaning on going back to the race groove, or possibly even back to the stock pullet. I did notice on my variator that the belt is travelng all the way to the top now as i can see the black marks on it. Im waiting on a new nut to come in for the clutch bell and am contemplating swapping it back and putting the Dr Pulley variator back in.

[SLESTAK75]

Hope that works. Mine did some grinding too when reassembled but its fine now. Ive not pulled it to switch it back yet. Too many other things to do. I will soon though. I want to get some good time and speed readings as is first. I won't be going back to the stock pulley. Once the pulley removes the metal that its rubbing on then all is good.

[SLESTAK75]

So mb have you gotten a top speed test yet?? With that belt traveling all the way it must have added to top speed.