Meaningless thoughts, big motor, little cart! - Page 2 - BuggyMasters.Com - An On Line Mini Buggy Forum and Go Kart Forum

metalstudman1 · #**101** 11-21-2011, 12:25 PM

The weld doesn't look that bad-especially being done with a stick.I guess if you're that disappointed you could weld tabs on the pipe and mount alum. heat shields over it to make it look better or give it some BLING!! The hydro flanges would be perfect for an attatchment point(they cool faster) I have many a project that get's stalled out due to funding!!! Yes they're expensive-kinda! This is still way cheaper than racing with all the thrill and fun less the competition.Self satisfaction is the biggest reward- knowing that you built and figured out how to make your toy function with just your skills. Innovation is your biggest asset, be proud!!!! I know that firing it up will put the enthusiasm back in you project. My advantage is I don't care much about how it looks- function over form. I knew the plan set would have a high dollar parts list!!! Since your motor has a pull start you really need to mount the choke at the motor.

300cpilot · #**102** 11-21-2011, 01:44 PM

"Bling" yes I like where you are going with this!

I really prefer to spend money on these projects verses the computers I have been working on for the last 15+ years. The buggys are a lot more fun. In reality the buggies are cheaper. As for self satisfaction, I think that is the bug I have caught, people see what you have done and think it is cool. I like it.

So what could you build for say, $3500.00 including everything minus motor? Could you put together a buggy simular to the plans?

metalstudman1 · #**103** 11-21-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300cpilot

So what could you build for say, $3500.00 including everything minus motor? Could you put together a buggy simular to the plans?

Sure I could- that's a ton of money!!!! I'm really being extravagant when I spend $500. on one. Growing up on a farm gave me a conservative way of thinking and the skills(common sense) needed to make it work when there aren't any resources. I build everything from recycled stuff- I buy broke down BS items made from steel tubing for $10. bucks then cut it up for all my parts, I have demo(blades,grinding disks,ect...) involved but I didn't spend $100.'s on new steel that's clean!!! I make or figure out a way to make it so my expenses are CHEAP and self-gratifying! Everything out there has a multiple use.You could easily build your dream buggy with that amount of money- "innovation is your biggest asset".It does cost anything that I'm aware to dream - You have skills- that goes a LONG ways when having this as a hobby.

300cpilot · #**104** 11-21-2011, 08:37 PM

I think you took that wrong, I was wondering if you would want to build it for me? I've seen what you can do and see nothing wrong with the process you have developed or your ability to make do. PM me if you want to talk about it further. This is just a pipe dream for right now, but who knows where it may go.

300cpilot · #**105** 12-17-2011, 06:55 PM

Been sick and working, but finally got a couple of hours to work on this beast. I got the fuel tank mounted, lines hooked up and I had to cut up the rack, just no way for me to get it to work out. I got a UNI filter and if all goes good I will see if it will run tomorrow...

metalstudman1 · #**106** 12-17-2011, 09:12 PM

Glad to hear progress-and you've recovered. Sorry didn't mean to leave you hanging about the build- Appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm working on too much of my own stuff right now.

300cpilot · #**107** 12-18-2011, 12:00 PM

No worries, when you get bored email me and maybe we can do something then. The project here is at the point of its first startup and I am off to get some gas and 2 cycle oil. I was surprised that there is only one gas station in the area that sells gas with no alcohol. You would think with all the landscapers around here they would all sell non-alcohol gas. I was told of one place that also sells 104 octane racing gas, but at over $8.00 a gallon I don’t think so.
I will learn how to post a movie when it starts up!

300cpilot · #**108** 12-18-2011, 04:16 PM

Ok it runs! Here comes the butt's...

The engine will not rev above about 4000 rpm's before it bogs down and will die if you do not let off the throttle. It does not do it if the buggy is up on jack stands. I am using the fuel pump from the sled so I think fuel pressure is ok and I also believe I have all the air out of the fuel lines. Do you think this is just the carb or the exhaust? It is alot louder then I remember, when it was in the sled.

I did put a new belt on it and it was not as stretched out as the old one so now the secondary spins all the time. You have to start it in the gear you want. I also wondered if this would also keep the motor from spinning up fast enough to move the cart.

I have checked for binding, when I put it up on jack stands and it goes like a scalded cat. The chain has about 1/2" of play in it.

Additional things I did today were to install a second kill switch on the back of the buggy and a beefy throttle return spring.

Any thoughts?

metalstudman1 · #**109** 12-18-2011, 09:09 PM

I believe you have the same issue I had- float level is off, I'd try adjusting that first.Engine orientation must be different from the way it sat in the snowmobile changing the angle of the carb. Mine did exactly the same thing- on the jack ran perfect, me setting in it on the ground it just bogged down at 1/2 throttle. It should turn the wheels when on the stand as there isn't any load, simply apply the brake when on the jacks to see if it will still idle. If the brakes won't hold try idling it down some.

300cpilot · #**110** 12-19-2011, 08:33 PM

I made the mistake of really reving it up while on the jack stands and for those that do not know, the faster your wheels spin the bigger around they get. So my wheels were 2-3 inchs off the ground and about 40-50mph they expanded and contacted the cement floor and burned off my epoxy floor paint! The only thing that saved me from a huge mess was that I had strapped the buggy to my second buggy. Luckily it did not rocket through the garage and out the back wall!!!

I found that a change of +10 degrees causes the bogging down. Front wheels down 10 degrees from level and it runs great. This is a very little change, so I will be taking the carb into a local shop. I am going to have them rebuild the carb cause once I got it opened it had a lot of varnish in it.

I also learned that this was tuned for +32 to -10 degrees so some rejetting is in order also. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

metalstudman1 · #**111** 12-19-2011, 09:34 PM

Awesome- glad you found the issue without getting killed!!!!
I stuck the slide in my different kind of buggy 180 degrees off and when I cranked it up in the shop it was WOT, as it was facing into my shop it ran over me and up onto my welding table before getting high centered to go any further as it was burning chunks in my leg as I was trying to get to a kill switch. I started strapping my stuff down too from then on.

300cpilot · #**112** 12-19-2011, 10:40 PM

You know strapping it down was a joke to start but from now on nothing gets run without being straped down. Glad you recovered from your mishap as well.

Honestly I think I may be slightly scared of the monster I built. Sure glad I did not put that Rotax in there. I am wondering if this thing will pull the front tires off the ground. If not it sure will throw a lot of dirt!

metalstudman1 · #**113** 12-20-2011, 12:48 PM

It probably won't pull wheelies as you have a decent suspension, when you have a ridgid rear end it will.

300cpilot · #**114** 12-20-2011, 07:34 PM

I am glad it will not pull a wheelie honestly.

Hey Metal did you do anything to your clutches, such as sliders etc?

metalstudman1 · #**115** 12-20-2011, 08:20 PM

Are we talking GY6?

roysheepdog · #**116** 12-20-2011, 08:51 PM

that should be a fun ride.id like to see a vid and some pics. of that thing.

300cpilot · #**117** 12-20-2011, 10:02 PM

I was thinking about your 440/snowmobile powered buggy, is the clutch stock?

As far as video's I have a youtube channel, with nothing on it yet. When this beast is running or it snows enough to play in with the HammerHead I will post some video's.

metalstudman1 · #**118** 12-21-2011, 12:11 PM

The only thing I changed on my clutch was swapping for a weaker spring(the spring came from a Polaris clutch), so it would engage quicker.They have fingers instead of sliders (reason for my confusion!). My driven still needs a fresh spring as it doesn't geardown the way it should.
Can't wait to see your vid's, hope it performs to your expectations.

300cpilot · #**119** 12-22-2011, 12:20 AM

I had a long talk with the shop manager where they are rebuilding my carb and he basically told me I chose the worst possible engine for this application. He is an old salt with Yamaha's. He thinks I need to replace the carb with a slide type from a motorcycle. Basically this carb does not have a slide and suffers from no mid range for the motor. I then told him I also purchased a Phazer 480 to do the same thing and he said strike 2.

So now what?

x-bird · #**120** 12-22-2011, 06:18 AM

injectors into the manifold with a MAF seonsor/air intake where the carb goes and o2 sensors in the exhaust?

roysheepdog · #**121** 12-22-2011, 09:12 AM

i would try it for my self.if this motor only makes 10hp in the mid rpms thats more than a 150 makes.
imo it will still be a lot faster than a stock HH.you can do clutch mods to keep the rpm up high on take off if its problem.
i say go for it!

300cpilot · #**122** 12-22-2011, 01:42 PM

We will see what it can do Saturday. The carb is done and I need to pick it up today.

metalstudman1 · #**123** 12-22-2011, 03:30 PM

You already know- test it, drive it and then if it's not even close to a performance level you can live with, then look for an alternative carb. What type/brand carb is it? What size is the intake inlet? I'll can help you find an alternative- as I've done a good amount of experimenting in that area!!!!

300cpilot · #**124** 12-23-2011, 07:22 PM

I want no wise cracks about my starter when I post the movies tomorrow, if everything goes well that is. Currently it is a 1/2" drill. Since I broke my sholder last April I can not seam to pull a pull starter.

metalstudman1 · #**125** 12-23-2011, 09:28 PM

Party pooper!!!!

300cpilot · #**126** 12-23-2011, 09:37 PM

I know family in town and Im hiding in the garage! Have a Merry Christmas you guys!

300cpilot · #**127** 12-26-2011, 07:41 PM

Ok, got the carb and she SCREAMS! No bogg's, and her comes the but... The secondary is opening up and the buggy will sit there and burn up the belt trying to get going. If you push to get it started, then it will really go. So now I am going to figure out the clutching on this thing. Heavier spring is in order for the secondary. A lighter spring for the primary.

metalstudman1 · #**128** 12-26-2011, 10:34 PM

Can you video it?

300cpilot · #**129** 12-27-2011, 06:29 PM

I will have to wait for Saturday to work on it again. I will post a video then.

300cpilot · #**130** 01-01-2012, 02:23 PM

We have movies! I think that the belt is to long?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1cWtAEBjzw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTzJad-3oVw

metalstudman1 · #**131** 01-01-2012, 03:14 PM

You don't shot the clutch but for a brief second and it looks like the belt is too narrow. The belt should be at the very top of the driven and it's not.

300cpilot · #**132** 01-01-2012, 05:09 PM

The belt is at the top before you start it, but then it pulls it down. I found that in the manual there is a special section for the clutches on these and there are shim's that you have to remove as the belt gets narrower. I removed both shims even though the belt is at 1-1/8" wide (in the middle of the 1.02 & 1.25" manual spec) and it does the same thing. It just seams that the secondary will split apart with very little preasure. I tried a shorter (1") belt from my Phazer and it is 1/8" wider and it did the same thing. plus due to the belt being so tight, it would barely run.

Is it possible that I have got the gear ratio really screwed up? Or does it just need the lowerer rpm spring in the primary clutch?

metalstudman1 · #**133** 01-01-2012, 05:47 PM

Can you shoot a vid facing the CVT with the wheels off the ground and let us see it function under "no load"?, That way we can see the function of the clutch and driven together,to be able to make a more educated opinion

300cpilot · #**134** 01-02-2012, 02:15 PM

I took the clutch out and found something interesting. It has not got the stock primary clutch it is a Comet 102-c. This clutch was also used/could be used on the Honda Odyssey FL350/FL400. It was also made for a 7/8" belt. It has a black (non-color) spring in it and according to what I see it will engage @ 3700 rpm's. Man does the fun ever end?

Any guesses where I would find a spring for it? The only good news is that it is good to 100hp!

x-bird · #**135** 01-02-2012, 04:04 PM

Found this on a "defunct" page ... looks like you may want to start shopping with some snowmobile hot rod shops.

Model 102C Series
Designed for snowmobiles and other applications that require a full range of exceptional ability from engagement through the highest speeds available from the power source, the 102C clutch is one of the best for snowmobiles and other machines using belt driven torque converters. The 102C clutch has unsurpassed tuning ability, outperforms clutches of similar design, has an open face design for economical servicing. Contact Comet Industries for recommendations.

Comet 102C Series Torque Converter
Specifications
Features
Applications
Diameter: 7-9/19" Open Face Snowmobile
Calibration: Swing Arm Easy Maintenance Special Vehicles
Housing: Cast Aluminum Tuneability Utility Vehicles
Bore: 30 mm 1:10 Tapered Retro Fits
Industrial Equipment
HP: up to 120 Performance
Engagement: 2500 - 5000 RPM

300cpilot · #**136** 01-02-2012, 04:39 PM

Thanks X-Bird.

It appears that if I can lesson the tension of the spring by 25lbs it would be equal to a stock Honda FL350 spring. Or if I increased the weight of the cam's, they would need increased in weight, I can mill them but not sure about adding weight.

300cpilot · #**137** 01-02-2012, 05:21 PM

Correction to an earlier post. This clutch spring is a Green, after dunking the spring in carb cleaner we can see some green paint on it. I just found a FL350 spring for $14.00 so we will see if that helps.

metalstudman1 · #**138** 01-03-2012, 12:04 AM

Fyi- Polaris ATV clutch spring is an exact match for the Comet 102C (as that's the spring I changed mine out with). Stock width belt for a Comet 102C is 1-1/4"

300cpilot · #**139** 01-05-2012, 08:32 PM

Can you tell me which polaris so the guy at the shop can look it up? I belive you on the width. Have you messed with the shims inside of your clutch before?

metalstudman1 · #**140** 01-05-2012, 11:37 PM

The clutch came out of a 2001 Polaris Trailboss 330- I did some researching to find that it's a pretty common clutch and that all the parts are interchangable with the Comet 102C.Haven't messed with anything else but the spring since my Comet clutch is almost new and everything looks excellent-I don't have the spider tool either. The Polaris spring did lower my engagement speed quite a bit.

300cpilot · #**141** 01-06-2012, 03:48 PM

I got one, but it is over 1 inch shorter, was yours this short?

metalstudman1 · #**142** 01-07-2012, 12:22 AM

It was a little shorter 5/8"-3/4", It should still work.

300cpilot · #**143** 01-07-2012, 03:51 PM

It went right in, even though the shop here did not want to sell it to me when they found out what I was doing. It makes the clutch work at a much lower rpm, I also set the secondary to its max tension setting and the belt does not set down as far. And here is the but. It still does the same thing. Is it possible the belt should be even wider? I also odered new counter weights for the clutch, but they will not be here until Tuesday.

New videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN0Eh...ature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z70qb...ature=youtu.be

metalstudman1 · #**144** 01-07-2012, 05:11 PM

Could you please find a bucket/step ladder or something to set the camera on? From the backend (stationary) facing the driven & clutch. You keep shooting from wierd angles and I can't see what the clutch is doing as the driven is expanding. What little I could see of the clutch!!!! the belt looks narrow and loose. What width do you have now?

300cpilot · #**145** 01-07-2012, 06:28 PM

I admit my video skills suck. I have 1 3/16" (w) belt, yes I have narrowed it since I started this. With the clutch fully open and the belt in there, I have about 3/16" to 1/4" of room between the sheve and the belt.

I did figure out something here a few minutes ago. The motor mounts were stretching when you gave it gas. So I removed the rubber mounts and put bolts through with washers as spacers. This caused the belt to be to tight so I backed off the tensioner to loosen it up to where the engine would idle and tried it again. It was the same story but not quite. When I shut it off and was waiting to put the cart back in the garage, I heard and saw the primary clutch slip out a little. I am wondering it the clutch is hanging up now or if the clutch is just junk?

Also arffter this run the belt was all the way out on the secondary.

I will post a better video tomorrow.

metalstudman1 · #**146** 01-08-2012, 12:18 AM

Your video skills are good- this old man needs to see stuff clearly!!! The side spacing on the belt in the clutch should be about 1/8"-3/16", so you're about right. After some research on mine I found newer manufactures of clutches added a bump/bulge right at the shaft on the pulleys for the belt to grab quicker and launch it up the sheaves that the Comet didn't incorporate. But Comet is still rated as one of the best clutches out there.

300cpilot · #**147** 01-08-2012, 02:34 PM

Video is delayed.

300cpilot · #**148** 01-31-2012, 12:55 AM

Times have a funny way of changing things around you, so some projects are going on to those that can finish them. This one I will finish, this Dazon, but afterwards it will be sold.

The rubber in the tensioning system is streching under load, making the belt loose. So the guy that built the motor mounts is going to rework it. I will post a video when it is finished.

I paid $1700.00 for the cart, $400.00 for machine work, $150.00 for clutch springs (both) & weights, $600.00 for all the fabrication work and $350.00 for the motor & clutches. This cart has a single forward gear and reverse.

I will take best price and winner gets the whole thing including an extra engine (original 250cc) Radiator & all original parts that are still laying around. I will deliever for for up to 200 miles for free, with a $2600.00 offer. If you want it shipped then you have to arrange it, on your dime.

300cpilot · #**149** 03-11-2012, 03:43 AM

I have sold this project and my Hammerhead 250ss today, so tomorrow I have to finish it. The motor mounts were not redone correctly, so I will be dreaming up something in the morning. I will post a video when it is finished. I have some money now and I am looking for a finished buggy!!!

300cpilot · #**150** 03-28-2012, 07:40 PM

Ok I wanted so much more for a video, but this is what I have. I did not film the first lap around the block because I was figuring out my phone, so second lap I'm ready and it runs out of gas!

If it does not storm here this weekend then I will film it again when I give it to the new owner.

First lap he hit about 40mph before I got him shut down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOd7N_hsw5w

Mount modification for the secondary. It keeps it from pulling towards the motor and shortening the distance between them. aka belt saver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejoq_FCLe3U

metalstudman1 · #**151** 03-28-2012, 10:11 PM

2nd vid is private-
Okay you gave us a small taste!!! Hope this weekend gives us more.

300cpilot · #**152** 03-28-2012, 11:50 PM

Sorry here is a fixed link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejoq_FCLe3U

300cpilot · #**153** 03-29-2012, 10:32 PM

I decided to try it again tonight. I found that the mount bolt for the rectifer had come loose and was causing it to die.
New Movie, where it actually runs. I will still post a video of it going through the woods, when we drop it off. He was told to go slow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DbtbZuxPVo

metalstudman1 · #**154** 03-29-2012, 11:11 PM

It's alive and being driven

Good job

300cpilot · #**155** 03-29-2012, 11:37 PM

Now I do not want it to go... Can't win.

300cpilot · #**156** 04-07-2012, 11:24 PM

This cart was so much fun it burned up a piston yesterday and the new owner wants his money back... $400.00 for 2 pistons and a bore job. I only paid $300.00 for the engine to start with.

Starting a new thread for a new build, I guess I really have not learned yet...

300cpilot · #**157** 04-08-2012, 01:41 AM

I forgot to mention that the original (250cc) gearbox has held up to some abuse, but time will tell. You can not switch gears with the engine running, so it is important to not have to stop and backup, unless you really need to. I can say that on one run of about 65 mph the gearbox pumped about 1/2 of the gear oil out of the breather tube. So they are looking for a puke can for it. Also we have also found that the brakes for this thing are not enough.

metalstudman1 · #**158** 04-08-2012, 01:01 PM

It makes me sad to hear that the fun was so short lived- but you did create something and experience it!!!!

300cpilot · #**159** 04-08-2012, 02:18 PM

The engine was dropped off to have the cylinders done yesterday, it will breath fire again. I sold the buggies to one of my brothers so they did not go to far.

300cpilot · #**160** 04-15-2012, 12:59 AM

Turn of events once more!!! Engine was apparrently fead a good supply of sand before I got it. The guy doing the work on the cylinders asked to see the rest of the motor before he started on the cylinders. There was sand in the bottom of the crankcase. @#$$%@$%@#@$!!!

So he recommended to scrap the motor. And now the fabricator that helped me put it in, is installing the original motor back into the Dazon. Way to p!$$ money down a hole.
But my brother is paying for it, cause he blew it up.