TK's Kids Yerfdog updates

[tkeagle]

I got to test 1 jet. Put in #210.
Holy mother of God. What a difference. Very impressed with the power. Will pitch your head back on take off. And we have one big hill. The old engine would go up it good. Could maintain its seed going up it. This one. Will keep gaining speed. Was throwing dirt out, all the way up it.
The 155cc could never do that, up the hill. It's about 100 feet climb.
I was in ahhhh.
Not sure why I'm needing a bigger jet then say normal. I still need to see what the 200 will do. If the 210 is the best, I'm all good with it. Then will do some plug test, needle adjustments, and then go back to the brake nightmare. Honestly, need to get that done, before let kids, or wife on it. With this increase in power, little scary, without brakes.
Test was as follow.
#210
11.90 secs @ 28.30mph @7690 rpm
11.65 secs @ 28.60mph @7640 rpm
11.51 secs @ 28.90mph @7680 rpm
However, wondering why can have a higher mph, but lower rpm??? I thought with cvt it was constant. Meaning at a certain rpm, the rollers will go up the ramp at certain rpm. If you look at the previous test, shows in the same rpm range, but lower max mph.
Since more power, it's throwing rollers up ramp faster, at same rpm?
I'm using trail tech to record this. Could just be variance in it?

[tkeagle]

Was able to do a test run the #200. There was a slight increase in performance.

11.45 secs @ 28.8mph @ 7740rpm
11.45 secs @ 29.0mph @ 7830rpm
12.17 secs @ 29.2mph @ 7820rpm

last run, had a slow take off, hard to make it consistent, due to, just cant floor the gas. Can only go about 1/2 throttle taking off, or will die. But if done right, takes off really good.
I'm not sure if this is true or not. Happen to talk to old friend Talked about what I was doing with the buggy. He said it sounded normal that needed a bigger jet. according to him, we get the crappiest gas in central KS. Need to drive a hr away to get some good stuff. we pump the oil, however, refineries are on east and west coast. So to keep price down, we get the crappiest stuff. (HE is kind of a KNOW it all). So not sure how much this is true. I think the best can get in this area, is 93. And pay extra with 93 with no additives.

[tkeagle]

After running it a while on #200 I pulled the plug. This not a WOT test. Was running test, went up our big hill a few times. Opened it up on the dirt road. and ran about 3 laps around our trails.
I'm not expert on plug reading, but looks OK. The outer rim little to dark? or is that good color? And if look closely on the tip, the color changes almost half way. Little more towards the end. don't recall what that means. But being close to half way, I know is good. Really don't see any line on the outer rim. So not sure what that means either. Will half to check it out.

[SYCARMS]

Plug looks fine but a full throttle test is still needed just the way I stated earlier. Trust me when I say this. I have seen more than one engine destroyed due to a lean mixture at full throttle. Some were racing but others just opened it up on a long stretch.

[tkeagle]

Did a WOT plug test. Before doing it, checked where the clip was on needle. Was set on one clip above the middle one. So moved it to middle. I'm running pretty solid with #210. #200 Was better on running test, but only very slightly. Nothing noticeable. While changing out between the 2, some how lost the 200. Uggg. Ordered new one. But I don't know. #210 running pretty damn good. Better rich then lean right?
I got the fuel air mixture in about 1.5 turns. Where rpm is at highest. If turn in, will slow down, and die. If turn out, can go few turns, and won't slow down or die. To rich? And that would be on pilot jet side right? Haven't messed with pilot side yet. Some say should do first. Others say don't matter. So don't know. But in good area, getting very close. The plug actually little more light tan then what pic shows. But think it's a good plug check.
The mixture screw is on the air intake side btw

[SYCARMS]

The plug looks good, I would leave the 210 in it unless it runs better with the 200. A bit rich will actually help cool the engine. As far as which jet to do first it will be the main jet. Reason why is the pilot jet delivers the fuel at idle, the main jet does not. From idle to about 1/3 throttle you are primarily pilot jet. At around 1/3 throttle the main jet starts to come in and the pilot jets drops out. Between 1/2 and 3/4 throttle you will be entirely main jet and the pilot is out of the picture until you decelerate. By doing the main jet first you are making sure you don't have a lean mixture at WOT. Once the main jet is dialed in you will now look at the pilot jet. If the pilot jet is too small you will have a bog, hickup or miss during the pilot main transition. If you do the pilot jet first it may run great but when you dial in the main jet and it shows a lean mix you will fatten the main jet. Now your transition of pilot to main will be off and have a period of rich mix during the transition period. It just makes it much easier and less work doing the main jet first.

[SYCARMS]

Not sure how far it is for you, but if you have the time and buggies running a bunch of us are going to St. Joes State Park in Park Hills MO next weekend. They have great camping with clean bathrooms and heated showers which are always clean.

[tkeagle]

Man, love to. But we and wife in a bind. Her explorer trani went out. We try to replace or fix. But right now don't have a vehicle that can tow, and take entire family.
Sound like good time. Maybe next time.

[tkeagle]

I can't just floor the gas. It bogs out or dies. Half to tap it down first. Get rpm up little then floor it. Even then, seems to bog little, before you hear it really open up. Did the same with old engine. I thought was to rich. But if what you saying, could be to lean, then might try to rich it up. If main was to lean, then same for pilot? Can't hurt to see. Have some larger pilots, just haven't tried yet.

[x-bird]

Test with one circuit or the other individually. don't change things in both. from what you're describing, sounds like pilot jet (clean or change) or float level adjustment. initial to part throttle is idle/pilot jet circuit.

[tkeagle]

Hmm. Tried some larger pilots. 22.5 was in it. Put a 25 in it. Must say there was an improvement. I could step on gas faster, without it dying. However, it idled rough. Had adjust idle screw. But running test, showed improvement. And could feel it on take off. I went ahead and went up one more. 27.5. Again big improvement. Would even peel out, on take off. Never did before. However, again rough idle. Could tell it was rich. Pulled plug. Think plug shows same. Much darker, then previous looks.
Test
#210...25p jets

11.38@29.3@7890
11.40@29.3@7890
11.25@29.3@7900

#210...27.5p

11.13@29.7@7900
11.15@29.6@7960
11.20@30.0@8050
So not sure what to do. Guess will get a smaller pilot, and see if get improvement going that direction. Really like overall performance with larger one. But think it's rich. The idle is really rough with the 27.5. Can actually peel out in very hard dirt. And smash down petal without dying. Hmmmm

Someone posted a link how can advance the timing slightly. Would that help with the idle?

On side note. Thou had some issues at the begging, now where enjoying tweaking everything out. Very happy with the new 175cc from BD. Can see big difference. One can actually peel out from dead stop. Not before. Checked the trail tech after son, took for a few rounds around our so called track. His top speed was 31mph. Before top was 26mph. Only way could get that fast was to take it on dirt road. I even hit 30mph in 110yards. (I know, top speed would not change) And just overall can feel the performance different. My son feels it also.

[x-bird]

is there an air/fuel screw on that carb? if so, leave the 27.5 in and move to that with no other changes.

[tkeagle]

Yep. And did that yesterday. I really couldn't get the idle to stabilize. After running it for few runs, and warmed up good. It would just die for no reason.
Plus, I could smell the gas in the exhaust. So went back down one to the 25 pilot. Adjusted the air/mix screw a little. And WOW, that was a big difference. Idle was much smoother. Could even set the idle down to around 1k, and would run smooth. with 27.5, couldn't do that.
Performance was there also. Even got better time test then the 27.5 one point ran 1 test and got 11.09. which blew any other test away. So did another one right after. Thought might have hit the start on stop watch little late. 2nd was 11.16. And I know I didn't hit it late or early. So was very impressed. top speed 29.9 and max rpm was 8050. So was right on par with the 27.5. Looking at spark plug, it doesn't look as rich. Still might be little rich. But much better then the larger one. I don't smell gas in the exhaust, and idle is pretty good.

Do have question. If correct on what I've been reading, and watching. to adjust the air/mixture screw. Which is on the Air intake side. bring up the rpm to around 1800 to 2000. Then move screw 1/2 at time, and adjust so max rpm is set.
the gas petal is very touchy. Had son try to hold it around 2krpm. OMG, he couldn't, didn't know if was going up or down. He said it was to hard. So I tried it. And ya, must say, so touchy, after about 5 secs, it moves on every touch.
So I just adjusted the idle screw so that it would keep it at around 1900. Then adjusted the air/mix screw.
setting the idle to that range... is that self defeating? or will work same either way?4

[SYCARMS]

I have not heard that, I adjust mine at idle around 900-1000 rpm but I'm no expert on the slide carb.

[tkeagle]

Ok. Well, guess don't matter then.
Just what I've seen on some videos, and forums. It's running smooth, so it's set close one way or another.
Should get my missed placed #200 in. If not already in mail. Not sure if want to change anything. Runs pretty good. However, spent money on new one, so while in the mood to do this carb tuning, might as well do it now.
As much as the carb been apart, after done. Buy rebuild kit. Carb looks like might be leaking. Guessing seal, since never replaced anything on it, except jets in 4 or 5 years. Would need to do adjustments after kit? $30.00 get all new seals. New idle screw, and looks like new float needle seat? Not sure what's called. And new bowl screws. And maybe new air mixture screw. Not sure.

[x-bird]

as far as carb tuning goes, type doesn't matter on the initial setup, warm it up, set it to correct idle rpm, then adjust the air/fuel screw. Before the slide = air screw-- so turning out means more air to the initial mix. Slides are considered better because of that good low end response. Always new o-rings on the air screw or idle will be a PITA to set. Leaking is likely float needle and seat not sealing. a little drip while it sits?-- bowl overflows and there you have it. that bad seal will also pull fuel up during initial, also messing with setup--ask me how i know that. LOL

[tkeagle]

Finally a gas station offered good gas in town. 93 with no alcohol. Filled up with that. Added a touch of booster. Also, put in the carb rebuild kit.
Engine ran completely different. Had hard time staying started. Was back firing just in idle. Could smell gas in exhaust.
Checked plug. Way to rich.
Between the 2, changed the entire configuration of how it was running.
These engines are way to sensitive.

[scjeep4.7HO]

Oh yeah it's a little rich. Smaller jet or add a turbo lol

[SYCARMS]

Remember that the metering rod has 5 positions on it. Use that adjustment to fine tune the carb after jetting is done.

[tkeagle]

I've got the jets to add a turbo.

Took brake from jetting til I get some other things.
I thought maybe one of my front shocks was bent. Travis was nice enough to send me a different set, to replace the stiff set that came with lift kit. They where softer. And rode better then the first set. But didn't handle the chop of our trails very well. I went back, and looked at gas charged I had. They wasn't bent. The bottom nut that held the rod, had worked it self lose. So took a few afternoons, to figure out how to take apart, and clean them up. Since had apart, added some color to them.
The very top screws off, and opens up the oil chamber. Noticed oil lvl was lower then the other. On both, oil lvls was lower then half. There is no I.D. marks on shock, telling me what kind they are so can look up what oil lvl should be. Is there a basic oil lvl, that should be at?
Without spring, I could easily move the shaft in and out. Once the piston lowered into the oil, then the shock shaft extended out much slower. But that was only affected about a 1/4 of the total travel. Way it was designed? Or should that be case for the entire shock?

[SYCARMS]

You first need to know what kind of shocks you have. Most do not realize that not all shocks are created equal. The oil level should be the same in both but how much depends on the type of valve used what travel they are set up for. Without knowing what brand they are or what they were made for there is no way to tell how much oil their should be but my guess is you would match the lower oil level shock with the other. The shock low on oil lost the oil somewhere due to a leaky seal. Where do you get seals for the shock. You also mentioned they were gas shocks so another question is how many PSI of nitrogen goes into the shock. Gas charged shocks use both oil and nitrogen, they work together in their separate chambers which work with each other. So even if you can find a seal and correct viscosity of oil for those shocks you will also need the nitrogen as well as the manifold gauges to safely and properly charge them. Just to give you an example when Blade Powersports went to Works for a custom shock they required the basic information to produce a shock for the buggy. Weight of complete buggy empty, weight of each corner of buggy and total travel of suspension just prior to bind. With this information they can then determine the piston size, rod size, valving, viscosity of oil, PSI of nitrogen, spring rate and type. Looking at the shock pics one is red and one is blue which tells me they are both rated differently. This can be the reason one is lower on oil than the other. If those are of a common shock builder such as Works or FOX it should be somewhere on the shock. If identified than the best bet would be to send them to the manufacturer to be rebuilt.

[tkeagle]

They are both same shock. Just the way I painted them.
If there is leaky seal, I haven't seen any oil on the shaft, shock, or a-arms. When I unscrewed the top, wasn't expecting to open up in the oil chamber. Think might have spilled some.
That said, looks like all can do is put some back in to match the other. Hmmm. Or see if can get in touch of person I bought from. He builds custom sandbuggys for living. But don't know if he will recall. Was few years back. Thanks for input.

[tkeagle]

Been in kind of limbo on this. Tweaking out some stuff til get money to fix brakes.
Decided to tackle the front fender brackets again. With BD updated spindles, they come with holes so can mount front fenders to spindle. I had mine tacked on spindle. But with the holes, will make it much easier, to take off and work on, or repair. With 3/8 threaded rod, took rough dimensions off other ones. And with kids help, they lined me up, where and how to bend the rod. Think they turned out pretty good.

[SYCARMS]

They look great.

[jmansracerocket]

Much better ��

[tkeagle]

Yes, would say much better. Can take off front fenders in few minutes. Without taking off tire. They just as solid as when I tacked to spindle. There is no rattle or extra noise from them, going this way.
If BD, would make a bracket kit for these spindles, and a mud flap option, don't think there would be a yerf dog owner that wouldn't purchase that kind of package. Looks awesome, and very affective.

[T@BD]

Looking great TK. I'll start making the mounting brackets soon. Your setup is almost exactly what I had in mind when I added the holes to the 2017 version of the spindles. Both 2nd and 3rd gen have them now, so everyone can keep the mud out of their teeth.

[tkeagle]

Sweet. Love to see how they come out!!!!

On another topic. Battery. Or stator???
I have a volt meter on buggy. Got 11 pole setup. Just this weekend, notice volt meter going crazy. Jumping from 12 to 8 volts. Up down. Up down. While engine running. After turn off, won't start. Half to jump.
So tried this. Took buggy battery out. Hooked up cables to car battery. Started up. Volt Meter read solid 13 to 14 volts. Once took off cables, volt meter couldn't read. Went dead. But buggy still running strong. If I keep buggy battery Hooked up, once take cables off the car battery, volt meter jumps all over 9 to 11 volts.
Guess first question. Volt Meter read the battery out put, or the charging system output? 2nd, from what just said, is battery issue, or stator issue?

[SYCARMS]

The only two things changed were the battery(buggy to car) and (buggy cables to jumper cables) same stater and regulator. So I would first check your battery cables, if good than you have a shorted battery.

[T@BD]

Yeah, the meter was reading your battery voltage.

Just to make sure I'm reading you correctly, you started the engine and disconnected the battery. Then you measured for DC voltage between the battery leads and got nothing? If so, yes there is a charging issue going on, but not necessarily the stator (or battery).

If all that is true, the first thing to check is your stator voltage (3 yellow wires) for AC voltage. Should be 10 - 13vAC at idle.

Then probe for DC on the red wire coming from your rectifier. Lmk your results.

[tkeagle]

ok, will barrow a meter and see what I get.
Thanks

[tkeagle]

Ok. Checked wires. 3 yellow wires, read on average 4.5 volts. However, depending on what side i read from the connection clip, one wire was reading...... not sure, was jumping all over the place. 15 to 8 volts. Red wire off regulator was jumpy, but say around 13 volts.

[tkeagle]

Now it's reading 13 on buggy battery when started. But won't start after turned off. Clicks. Then nothing. Then voltage meter, jumps all up and down, around 9 volts when it's turned of.. Don't know if makes difference or not.

[SYCARMS]

Lets go back to when you had the car battery connected. What I understood is you had a steady voltage when running, is this correct? How was the car battery connected? with jumper cables or buggy leads?

[x-bird]

changed the battery in your meter lately? I had a heck of a time diagnosing the charging system in my camper recently, turned out meter batteries were the culprit.

[tkeagle]

guess typed out the last comment little fast. The voltage meter on the buggy, is the one I was referring to. Used a hand held one to check the yellow and red leads. I double check it first, by hitting a few thing on my truck. Seem like all working well. Don't think it's a low battery on the hand held one.

Yes, if I hooked up the buggy to my truck battery, via jumper cables. since battery is in tight place. I hook the positive to the main feed to my block out. Which leads straight down to battery. For the negative, I just hook to frame, down by where rear engine mount is.

I can hook up truck battery, via jumper cables. The buggy volt meter will read 12.2 volts.
(The truck is not running). just hook up, while truck is dead. not using the trucks charging system.
Starts right up. Leaving the truck off. The voltage meter on the buggy shows what I would say a normal reading. from 12.5 to 13 volts.
The moment I take off any connections to the truck battery. Buggy volt meter goes crazy. or just more like, the lights die on the meter. (that's what was happening this last weekend)

What was different yesterday.. ...... When I would take one of the cables from the truck battery. It was still showing a good 12.2 to 12.8 charge on the buggy battery.
I would let it idle for while, just on the buggy battery. after while would show 13.0. I would shut the buggy off. Then try to start again. Got a click. Then the buggy meter would jump all over the place, reading around 8 to 9 volts.

Would say easy enough just go replace the battery. However, don't explain the low volts on the yellow wires. Is it possible for battery to have some sort of negative reaction to the charging system? Something tells me, it's more then just battery, but could be wrong. I almost want to say, by way it reacting. Might be a bad ground.
Thou, way set up, be hard to loss a ground. Pretty much everything in back, is grounded by the block out. A few minor things up front of buggy, is grounded to frame. Guess need to check all connections on the block out.

[tkeagle]

Cable to blockout.

[SYCARMS]

Disconnect both leads from your battery, check how many volts it has. A fully charged battery should be around 13.2-13.7 volts. If low, charge the battery to full charge. Now not sure what type battery you are using but if it is a factory spec battery for your buggy you do not want to put more than 1.5 amps 2.0 max amps or you will ruin the battery. If the battery won't take a full charge or if after a full charge it reads 12v or lower after sitting not connected for 1 hour than you will have to replace the battery. You must determine the condition of the battery to go any further with checks. Don't take any short cuts when checking the battery both wires to battery should be disconnected from battery this will eliminate the entire system and you will be checking the battery only.

[tkeagle]

Battery definitely not keeping a charge. So will change first, then go from there.

[x-bird]

my bet is on internal battery short. 2nd would be ground setup. i had fluctuating readings like that with mine when i setup the blue buggy. Had battery to chassis ground, engine to swingarm, nothing from swingarm to chassis. until i made that last connection the battery ground was isolated from the engine/harness.

[tkeagle]

Ok. It was battery. Everything works great. 12.5 to 13 volts at idle. Turned off buggy. Next morning. Still reading 12.5 volts. Think battery been going down. Hill for while. With all my lights on, at idle, volts would go down to 11.5 volts. Now, 12 to 12.3 steady.
When took core in, noticed pin size hole on top. Looks like some welding splatter hit the battery. Explains alot. So very happy now.
Next issue BRAKES!!! New brake master. New brake line, new banjos. Took off old caliper of another swing arm set up. Never use. I've bleed it probably 10 times no bibles. I can feel good pressure in system. It does have brakes. But not it should. Oh ya, got new brake disk to. Happened to look at brake disk, and notice didn't look like all the pads where connecting fully. Checked old disk. There is clearly a difference. Old one can see disk connecting up 4 holes. What I'm getting now with this setup, is half that. But can tell othere half is connecting, but barley. So is this my problem?
If so, is it just pads uneven, and just let where down to they get full contact? Or is this a caliper issue?
Also. Notice how dark the connection point is compared to the old one. Do I need clean pads, or normal for, let's say new pads?

[x-bird]

make sure your pads don't have a bit of them that sits above the rotor. if that happens, as they wear they end up contacting pad to pad which stops the pedal/pressure without putting much pressure on the rotor. with most of the calipers im running, i have to trim the top edge of the pad off by 1/8th to 1/4". also take a sander to that dark area on the rotor, that's glazing, may want to rough up the pads to.

[tkeagle]

Ok. Will check out.

[tkeagle]

Little tip I figured out. I'm running a m26 mikuni carb. No auto choke. Not sure how other buggies run their throttle body, but the rod connected to the gas pettle works as nice auto throttle. If you turn the rod. Will press back on throttle cable, and give it constant gas while warming up. And will stay there until you twist it back. Saves some time, sitting there manually giving it gas durning warm up. Just thought id share.

[SYCARMS]

Originally Posted by tkeagle

Ok. It was battery. Everything works great. 12.5 to 13 volts at idle. Turned off buggy. Next morning. Still reading 12.5 volts. Think battery been going down. Hill for while. With all my lights on, at idle, volts would go down to 11.5 volts. Now, 12 to 12.3 steady.
When took core in, noticed pin size hole on top. Looks like some welding splatter hit the battery. Explains alot. So very happy now.
Next issue BRAKES!!! New brake master. New brake line, new banjos. Took off old caliper of another swing arm set up. Never use. I've bleed it probably 10 times no bibles. I can feel good pressure in system. It does have brakes. But not it should. Oh ya, got new brake disk to. Happened to look at brake disk, and notice didn't look like all the pads where connecting fully. Checked old disk. There is clearly a difference. Old one can see disk connecting up 4 holes. What I'm getting now with this setup, is half that. But can tell othere half is connecting, but barley. So is this my problem?
If so, is it just pads uneven, and just let where down to they get full contact? Or is this a caliper issue?
Also. Notice how dark the connection point is compared to the old one. Do I need clean pads, or normal for, let's say new pads?

Just a quick tip, anytime you weld on the buggy always disconnect the battery, unplug both the stator and cdi. The high amps during welding can short these out through the ground.

[tkeagle]

Never thought about that. But makes sense. Thanks for the tip.
Maybe why I go threw some many.
$%##^^^*&())(&^$$#@!@#$%%^&&*((^%%#@
That said. Could kick my own azz, if I could.
Think I brought up somewhere, in my thread or another. My son been real good about helping me out this last year. However, he has one flaw. He still gets lefty lossy,,, righty righty, backwards.
Pretty sure it just bit me in the azz not fixing that with him.
Long story short, was in hurry. Wanted his help taking spark plug out, while I was working on something else. Didn't think about it, I had 3/8 ratchet. Only thing in my box was the 1/2. Wasn't paying attention. He grabbed the 1/2, which btw already had a 3/8 reducer on the end of it. He used the extension and 5/8 plug socket.
If dont know by now... Yes, think he stripped the plug hole. Haven't completely confirmed yet. Cause I'll just go snug, and stop. Seems new engine running fine. But not test yet. Anyway to fix a stripped plug hole? Or just need to buy new head? ???????
Not blaming on son. Just sooooooooooo frustrating!!!!
We will have a lesson on righty tight, lefty, loose again.

I should have checked first.

[x-bird]

you can get a helicoil kit for sparkplugs. and yes, lesson needed. i learned the left loosey "exception" rule the hard way when i was 10. Big adjustable wrench, pedal on bike. tons of force loosening the "stuck" pedal the "right" way ... el slippo and one hell of a shiner!

[SYCARMS]

Did you find any aluminum in the threads of the plug?

[tkeagle]

I looked. Didn't see anything noticeable on the threads of plug.

[SYCARMS]

If no aluminum threads were found on spark plug threads than threads should be OK.

[tkeagle]

Ok. Well guess will half to confirm...
---------------------
Little off topic. But like to say my 13 year old Son shot his first white tail buck,(with a bow) not crossbow.
Was an awesome hit. Think he clipped the heart. Used the buggy, and the wench I put on it, to pull the big boy back to truck. Knew that wench would come in handy. Guess it's my turn to get my deer.

[tkeagle]

Ok.. new issue came up. And not sure what it is.
Now, when I start the buggy. Sounds like I got teeth missing on starter. It klanks, spins, klanks. Sounds like metal on metal. I have pulled out starter 3 times. Teeth look good on starter. Looked at flywheel, threw the starter hole, and all teeth look good there. So put in a new starter, I always have on backup. Same thing. Checked teeth, on both starter and fly wheel, threw hole I could see. So not sure what's up. Could it be siliniod? Maybe not giving enough juice? And kicking off and on?

[SYCARMS]

Could be the starter clutch going bad.

[tkeagle]

Starter clutch? That starter or engine?
Something odd. Seems to work fine, when engine warms up. I want to say it almost back firing when it's trying to start cold. Apears that maybe got some gas leaking out of carb when sitting. Maybe need to adjust the float little better.

[SYCARMS]

If the seat is not completely shutting off fuel to bowl it will leak into cylinder creating a weak hydrolic lock due to too high compression. Gasses compress way more than liquid. If gas is leaking out of carb it could also be leaking into the cylinder when it sits idle. That is one thing that will cause the engine to kick back making clunking noises after sitting with fuel in cylinder.

[tkeagle]

I'm guessing that might be my issue. There was a sort of progression in what was going on. Slowly getting worse. And many times sounds like a back fire, then other times not. But after running, starts up fine. Just put in a rebuild kit in it. So weird. Could there just be some dirt, or something, in the seat, that it's not sealing all the way?
I'll pull the carb, and give it a good cleaning.

[SYCARMS]

Trash in the bowl, corroded seat or some floats are adjustable, if so check float height. Also check that there is no sediment or fuel inside float. Also if your fuel contains ethanol, stop using it and get fuel without ethanol.

[tkeagle]

Well. Got it cleaned out. If something was clogging it, wasn't noticeable.
Seemed like started fine. But weather much warmer. Not sure if that factor. Maybe since cylinder wasn't filled with gas, why started up so quickly.
Pretty sure that was it.

[SYCARMS]

Pull oil dip stick and sniff. If any smell of gas change oil immediately.

[tkeagle]

Figured it out hard way. Wasn't threads on head. Was the spark plug. Omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now the head of the spark plug is left in the head.
So now what????
How do I get the head of plug out of the head???
This explains alot.

[SYCARMS]

Pull the head and use an easy out.

[tkeagle]

For that plug. What size would I get?
Thought was 10mm. But seems to small. 10mm, showing 3/8.
Trying to get off amazon. But might be better just to go local auto store?

[SYCARMS]

Get them at any auto parts store.

[tkeagle]

Do I need to pull head? When plug busted inside. Was not very tight. Must have been pretty close busting off when put it back in. Guessing could set up racket to get easy out inside the head of plug. Don't need to drill a hole. Already hollow in what I'm going into.
Something I could be missing?

[SYCARMS]

When you extract the threads I would match it to the plug and be 100% certain that no pieces are missing. In other words when the thread is pieced to the plug it will look complete. However if any doubts pull the head. All you need is a small piece of metal and it could ruin a cylinder.

[tkeagle]

That makes sense. Will give it a good check.

[tkeagle]

got the plug out. Think everything good.
However, still having problem with it wanting to start when the temp outside gets around 40 F.
Again still sounds like metal on metal. Klanking. or if its really cold just hear the starter spin, but not connecting to fly wheel. Someone said the starter kick out?
is that in the starter or engine?

[SYCARMS]

It sounds like it could be the starter clutch located behind right case sump cover behind the stater.

[tkeagle]

Travis asked for video of it. Planned on anyway. So will get that done.
Was warmer today. Got it started. With new plug, purred like kitten. Oh. Forgot. I took out plug, and started it. With no compression, was turning over engine just fine. Not sure if that makes difference or not.

[xlint89]

You're not using heavy weight oil are you?

[tkeagle]

10w 40.
What I've always used.
Getting ready to change it out to full senthic.
New engine has well over 10 gals of gas through it.

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by tkeagle

10w 40.
What I've always used.
Getting ready to change it out to full senthic.
New engine has well over 10 gals of gas through it.

I have always used 10w40 my self or rotella 15w40 diesel oil

[tkeagle]

I got a few videos of the cranking over of the starter.
Video recording must have some sort of noise filter built into it. Can hardly hear what starter is doing. I downloaded a sound recorder. And much better to what it truly sounds like. Is there a way to post a sound file?
Say on YouTube, FB, or on the forum?
Or is there something in the settings need to change in the video recorder?

[T@BD]

Got the recording. Yeah that sound like a bad starter clutch just barely holding on. The clanking you're hearing is the starter clutch sprocket. It gets really noisy if engagement isn't solid. It's possible that the spanner nut backed off, but I don't think that'd be the case.

We've got more 8-sprag clutches coming in next week, how would you like to move forward to get it fixed? Do you feel comfortable tackling the replacement or do you want us to replace it here?

It's a pretty easy job and about 30 minutes the first time, I'll walk you through it. You don't have to remove the engine from the frame. At most you'll have to remove the wheel/tire to get access to the stator side.

It's going to need a new 8-sprag clutch, spanner nut, and gasket. We'll include a new woodruff key too. The hardest part is just getting the flywheel off which is a routine deal. Do you have a gy6 flywheel puller? If not, we've got you covered on that as well.

Let me know what you'd like to do.

[tkeagle]

We good. I can do it. I do have a gy6 puller.
Just let me know when ready to move forward.
Thx.

[tkeagle]

Any update on the clutch?

Got question. Can I harm anything by still starting it in its current condition? Break teeth? Put shavings in the engine?
On the warm days been trying to start it, just to get lube up in top of engine.
Should I avoid starting until fixed?
Or is it Ok?

[tkeagle]

Hello guys. Been while. Been crazy winter for me. Finally need to get ready for spring. Last issue I had was with the starter clutch.
I got the case and everything off to the clutch. There is a castle nut that holds it on.
OMG, that sucker is on there. Have tried taking a pin and hammer and hit it inside the grooves, to break it lose. Not working. tried everything I could think of. last thing I tried was a pair of chanlocks. It was the best thing I could get a bite on. was lifting the entire cage and engine trying to break it lose. still didn't get it.
So Question. is there a special tool, to get that sucker off?
Is that nut aluminum? with the locks, the nut seem really soft.
If I heat up the nut, will that help? Or if I try to heat it up, is that shaft connected to some seals that I could dmg if I get it to hot.
And just to check my self. It is reverse thread correct?

[scjeep4.7HO]

Are you turning it the correct way? Do not heat it, you could weaken the crank or ruin the crank seals. There is an actual tool for the nut and it's only like 12 bucks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATV-Scooter...9aL6or&vxp=mtr

[tkeagle]

Thanks, I ordered it. It's reverse thread, from what I've seen on videos. Turn right to loosen correct?

[SYCARMS]

Yes right to loosen.

[tkeagle]

Well, got it off, within 5 mins, after getting the castle nut wrench. Had to grab a 3 feet cheater bar to break it over.
Travis sent me a new starter clutch, and castle nut. However, kids got to messing with the package and lost the nut. So half to order another one. I started tearing this project apart and few months ago. Then turned really cold, and been sitting in garage for few months, waiting for me to finish it, and put back together.
Got a lot of questions, before put all together. The right case seal on it, looks in good condition. Not very many hrs since bought it. The seal for shaft looks good as well. However, should I just get new ones? Just to make sure. Hate to get it all together, then leaks. But if I wait for new seals, buy time can buy, be another 2 weeks before can put together.
Another question. Since nut was so tight. I had to back it up from the other side of shaft. Backing it up off the nut holding down the variator. Now I’m guessing since one side is reverse thread, and was backing it up from other side. Now the nut on the variator side, is now as tight as was the castle nut. So guessing I need to figure out some way to get the variator nut lose, and tight down with correct torque before running. Any idea’s how to get that done? Since will be just tightening each other down, while trying to tighten the other.

One other thing. When I drained the oil, I tried to keep an eye on it. Ran my finger through the oil as it was draining. Seemed good. Could feel any metal shavings. However, opening the right case. Was metal shaving all over the bottom of it. The shaving was pretty small. Looked as if all of them was in a “0” shape, or half to ¼ “0” shape. 100% was not spark plug. Way to small. Size of the “0” shape might be 1/8 dia. At best. As was cleaning it out, I pulled off the big sprocket off the starter clutch. Castle nut was still holding it on at this point. When pulled it off, found something small on the bottom side of it. Was a metal hollow cylinder. Very small. Same size as the shavings. One end was chewed up. The other end, as recall, was tapered. And thought the end of it was black. Was maybe and inch long, if that, and around 1/8 in dia. Looked like maybe could be some sort of guide for something? Reminds me of the cylinder shape guides that helps connects the cases, to engine. But very small. But got the impression it came from the starter clutch. Again, ways laying on the bottom of it, after taking the big sprocket off. But cant tell, where it might have come from.

ANYBODY, have any idea, what it might have come from? If it’s not from starter clutch, then be a good idea, to find out where it did come from. SORRY, when found all of this, was getting late. Placed the shaving, and the piece of metal on a table outside, and was going to take pic in morning. Un expected storm came in, and lost it all.

Any thoughts or concerns about this?

[tkeagle]

Got up on BD site, and see what I was looking at. Pretty sure it was a Dowel Pin. However, really small.
Looked like this, but one side chewed up. Again, but much smaller then this one.
https://www.buggydepot.com/product/1...t-bushing.html
So wondering if it was it the clutch. If remember, will open up the old one, when get home.
And couldn't find Any Dowel pin listed on BD site, that comes close to the size it was.
So Guessing the pin was from a part. Not coming from the engine it self????? maybe??

[SYCARMS]

The clutch does not have any dowel pins, it could be a piece of the sprag spring.

[tkeagle]

Not for sure what that is sycarms. But do have up date.
I'm still working on taking clutch apart. Those Allen bolts are on tight. But while messing around with it. Another piece came lose. Much like what I saw last time. There is side by side pic, with what fell out of the clutch. And a pin from the right case. On the top of the small one is chewed up. And laying next to it, is what looks like some busted off pieces from it.
Also. Noticed something else. On face of clutch, and one face of the bearings that go inside the clutch, appears to be some heat damage. And front face of clutch, seemed maybe warped in one area.
Also, that small chewed up piece. On this one, it's almost closed, one the good end. But has small hole in it. Is this what you talking about? As far as springs go?

[SYCARMS]

The first pic the large is a roller bearing small pieces unsure, second pic to far right is a line up dowel, to left not sure don't think it is a dowel since it is cracked and a dowel will crush.

[scjeep4.7HO]

You don't need to take the clutch apart. New one come complete.

[SYCARMS]

He is trying to figure weather pieces are from the clutch or something else.

[tkeagle]

well, IT's got to be from the Clutch. Where I found all the pieces. And the metal pieces match the smaller dowel, or what ever it is. Ordered new seals, nut, ect... So will put back together in next few days. Will shoot oil, all over, and get it inside the engine to flush much as can.

[tkeagle]

Ok. Didn't think about it, til after most back together. Got new starter clutch back in. Got case, stator back on.
At this point, before put back rest together, started it up.
Fired up pretty good. And clutch seems to be working good.
The fan and plastic is not on yet.
Ok this thing got hot quick. Within 5 mins or less, sitting at idle, was reaching 250. On a cool afternoon.
Don't think ever got that hot, just at idle.
#1..Does the fan and plastic help keep that cool?
Or this something else?
#2.. not sure, might be small oil leak, or could be just oil left over from all oil i used around and in engine while case open to flush out all the metal shards.
However, bought new seals, but didn't use any gasket seal. Just put on gasket. Didn't look like any seal used when took it apart. Should I go back in and use gasket seal on the case?
And on the case bolts, should I use lock tite? Saw one video, said you should. Or is that over kill??
Just want to make to get right, before put all back together.
Thanks.

[SYCARMS]

Being air cooled that engine will run up to over 300 degrees. The shrouds need to be on fitted correctly. The fan moves cool ait around the fins cooling the engine. No gasket sealant is needed for the gaskets on a cleaned surface will seal. Never, never use locktite on the engine, the bolts properly torked will remain tight.

[tkeagle]

Thanks for info. Good to know. You know the tork specs on the case? I used to have a tork spec guide for the gy6. But cant find the thing. Was thinking was somewhere around 10lbs. But not sure. I need to go back in, and tork everything before go any further.

[SYCARMS]

85 inch pounds