drive train swop out

[rocko]

I am going to do an extreme swop out on my Crossfire 150R , have come to the conclusion that the Chinesse knock off Honda motor are trash , very poor quaility metals that wear out fast and it is one thing after the other with electrical parts ------maybe someone can give me some ideas on a good power plant/tranny ------- I been looking around and I have a couple of opitions right now for a drive train , one is a Polaris 425 for $400 , water cooled , chain drive , high and low tranny with reverse that does 50+mph on the 4 wheeler , as a secondary thought it is 4x4 and is running as 2x4 right now , with a lot of work I could see the 4x4 from this Polaris being possible to convert into the Crossfire , another opiton is a 300 Honda Ex for $200 , chain drive , with reverse , this engine has a clutch and I think performance would be great but dealing with the clutch wouldn't be not so good on the trails I ride , another opiton I have is a EZGO workhorse cart for $ free , rear end with a 13 hp two cylinder 4 stroke Kawaski it has reverse and is centrifical clutch , this setup can be converted into a Kohler or Briggs 25hp vertical shaft fairly easy -------- any suggestions

[metalstudman1]

Any of the options are good-the Polaris w/tranny take about 23" of length. I've swapped a Honda Bigred into the kids Punisher but still haven't tested it yet (stator issues)It fit right in with the stock length of the swingarm. 2 of my other buggies use the Honda TRX200SX with great success- Semi-auto w/ reverse and they fit very well. I've only GPS'd one of them @ 58mph. Had to make a sprocket carrier for the other side of the axle.

[rocko]

I hear ya ,can I ask you how many teeth are you running in the front and back and what are the results -------------------- I have the rear axle of a FourTrax 300 Honda shaft drive ready to go , I thought that over and I would have to lenghten the swing arms alot ---------I seen a Honda three wheeler for sale cheap , it must have been one of the last ones they produced as it had a shaft drive set up , I use to have a 82 and got hurt on it pretty bad , it was chain driven ----------I was hoping to find one with the chain on the right side and not have to deal with a sprocket carrier like you did --------I think there was a 250 Honda that had chain drive and reverse , I think the 250 would be just about right on CC's ---that Polaris 425 is big and bulky and I would need alot of linkages and wiring for it , ------ the Workhorse drive train would be slow and more crusier than a hot rod , if I get picky it will probally cost , if I take anything I can get cheap it will probally cost any way to make it work -------

[metalstudman1]

I used 13t on the motor and 31t on the axle-Haven't got to test it!!!! Here's the link to that post http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1602 . Wish I could tell you with experience that it works!!!! I made a deal(barter agreement) for the balance of my parts several months ago but the other guy is very busy/out-of-town and I'm not on a time table-hopefully soon it'll be on the trails!

[rocko]

I have not had much time to tinker with the cart as I been building a new work truck ---------but good things come to those who wait and it didn't take a lot of time , reading Craig's list a few weeks back and see Crossfire 150 R engine for sale $150 I call the guy and he tells me the frame broke on the front 1/2 the cart and he unbolted and saved the running motor and the whole rear suspenion , which included the axle , sprocket and everything set up and ready to go but the tires and rims , an easy swop out , 2 pivot bolts and 2 shock bolts , some wires , hose and cable , and now I have the rear frame to work with for my engine drive train swop out and a whole engine for parts for the GY6 , that was a really good find ---------- still have not found a good priced power plant yet to use , looking for the Honda 250 ATV chain driven with reverse , found a couple for sale , one was junk and the other was a running bike and they wanted a lot for it -----------

[metalstudman1]

I know the 250cc Honda's make some good power but I'm not counting on it reving as quick as the 200sx motor, the 250's were designed to be work horses (lot's of torque) where the 200sx was more sporty. Look at this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9mrdFTfH1g just to give you a clue as to the power of the 200sx in a buggy similar to yours. The 250 would be peppier than the workhorse or Briggs/Kohler. Rapid rpm's is what I'm after in our buggies and the elimination of a CVT, you can't beat a gear driven transmission for raw power when climbing a large hill & reverse doesn't take up anymore space or maintenance,the 300ex would be a choice of engine if it wasn't a manual clutch-it would be a hotrod with lots of top end to spare!! but with kids I prefer the semi-auto's for ease of use and maintenance (lots less fabrication too). The power to wieght ratio of the 200sx over the 250es/ex is huge for the 200sx. You can't get the same thrill from 3600 rpm as with 9,000 rpm-Just my opinion The 200sx swap was the easiest swap I ever made too! Posts #19 & 20 :http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159

What are your exact expectations from the power plant? What type of terrain? Do you just drive or are you into a much more exciting experience?

[rocko]

Man I logged in wrote a long post and it tells me you don't have permission to post , log in first , I log in again and my post disappeared -----------dependabillity in wet conditions is my main concern , we don't have any hills except ditches , the trails are narrow with lots of trees and like tunnels

[metalstudman1]

Sorry to hear you lost your time and long post. Try it again when your frustration level lowers!(it's happened to me too many times to count) The 200sx is an ATV engine designed for sloppy conditions and we have plenty of mud-never had an issue with things getting wet or failing due to moisture.

[rocko]

It did it to me again , but I was ready this time , copied the post before hitting post button so when it was lost I logged in and pasted it back , I think the post get lost from timing out ------------------------ like I said we don't have any hills , I see it says elevation 534 ft on your resume , Metalstudman, my house slab is 12.5 and we ride at about 5 ft above sea level , the highest hill we have is the leeves and you can't take motorized vehicles on them --------the 200 sounds right as I don't want a lot of weight and floatation is important , a clutched machine with mulitple gears may be nice but I think the automatic with gears would work just fine and be a lot easier to controll -----dependabillity is my main concern as we go pretty far from the house and if you break down it is a bad tow back as the trails are narrow , lots of turns and trees and at times lots of water , the dirt we have here on the Northshore of Lake Ponchartrain is like a reddish clay , hard as a rock when dry but as soon as it gets wet it is as slippery as you could imagine , and it holds water , it takes a long time for all the puddles to dry up on the trails ----------- we are just coming off a cold spell week and it has been dry , the temps are suppose to be 70 Sat and 80 Sun , with 60 % rain for Mon and Tues so I better get out there and do some riding this weekend as next weekend it is going to be wet for sure

[metalstudman1]

I'm by no means promoting Honda- These engines I have are stock 1980's engines,They were used plenty before I bought the 4-wheelers and I'm still giving the engines a beating. I know your area well as I took my 4WD trucks in the the mud & gumbo north and south of the New Orleans area ( N.Carolina has similar red clay)-wheel speed is needed to overcome that terrain. My choice of engine was based on several needs/wants : electric start, pull start back-up, semi-auto tranny, reverse, chain drive.These items were met with the Honda TRX200SX (fourtrax), also the parts are readily available and cheap. With only 86lbs. complete it's a lot of bang for the cc's.The 250es/ex weight is 109lbs. without exhaust. The CVT is great for rapid speed but when putting it under constant load they get hot where with the tranny you control the pulling power by shifting, and you'll not be able to go much faster than 45mph with the CVT and still have take-off power.This is just information for you to make an educated decision.Have yet to have one of the 4- 200sx engines fail to start!!! I have 2 that I need to put rings in that started smoking and still run great! Most reliable motor I've ever owned.

[rocko]

Some good thoughts , thats wild that you have been in the area , south of the lake it is the black ( gumbo ) humus dirt and north the lake is the red clay and some sand ------------ that new to me motor I swopped out runs ok , but I still want to beef it up , I " LOVE " Honda , over the years I have had many Honda dirt , street , ATV and small engines and they are solid , very reliable , my best Honda story is a air compressor I had on my service truck from 3 years before huricane Katrina in 2005 , it went 4 ft under water and I drained the oil , pulled the plug and pumped the water out the cylinder and it fired up and ran till a couple of months ago when the compressor end broke , the Honda motor still runs ---------- what kind of set up did you rig for the shifter , a hand lever with linkkage or a cable

[metalstudman1]

Here's an example of 2 different shifter set-ups:The first pic's are of the Yerfdog with the TRX200SX- it's made from a lawnmower handle and reverse is the motorcycle handle.

[rocko]

Really nice , clean job ... I enjoy fabricating ........ I have a bunch of linkage rods from salvage of projects past and was thinking on making it a mechanical linkage instead of cables .......

[rocko]

M-M ( MetalstudMan ) , what you think of a 2003 250ex , I just emailed a guy close to me about this one ------


I have an 03 250ex motor and frame, motor, frame and transmission good, 4 wheeler, atv quad

The atv does not have any plastics, seat, rear axel is misisng, it does have handlebar, front end is complete. $350

[metalstudman1]

The 250ex is good/great power and the sporty version of the 250's-
Are you buying another one or is that the one you just bought?
I had put linkage on the Franken buggy at first and it's pretty easy- keep in mind that the swivel point of the rods/linkage needs to be mounted at the rear rail of the frame for the swingarm to move up/down without changing the gear or clutch selection. I changed over to cables for maintenance reasons. I understand working with what you have but a cable takes a ton of fabrication out of the picture and lubrication points. Here's where I found the cheapest cables if you want options:http://www.atlanticspeed.com/product...idproduct=4988

[GX150]

I'm not sure if the EX models had reverse. I think they are forward speeds only with electric start.

[rocko]

M-M , this is another bike I found last night , it is missing the rear axle and doesn't have any fenders , but runs and the tranny is good , sounds like a good deal ---------- I am getting ahead of myself with the linkage

Yes the Ex has reverse , here is a quote from the review of the bike :

The EX's transmission was tops as well, shifting without drama but with a long throw of the shifter. Reverse was a favorite for many, since they could access it without removing their hands from the handlebar.
Read more: http://www.atvrideronline.com/tested...#ixzz1fnMEAFkh



only problem now is , I emailed the guy yesterday and wanted to pick it up this evening and now he doesn't answer

[GX150]

I got my "r" and "x" mixed up. The "r" and "er" models do not have reverse. I guess it's better than getting my RX mixed up...

[metalstudman1]

You're the perfect buyer!! hope he responds- make sure you look at all the electrical components, if something is missing see if he still has them as part of the deal. Good luck with the purchase, I'm excited for you and your up-coming project!!!

[rocko]

Thanks for the good thoughts , I finally got in touch with him last night late and he still has it , he says it runs so all the electrical parts must be there , going to try and get there this evening and pick it up , but it is suppose to rain really bad tommorow --------------M-M , what did you have to do about motor mounting ? do you have any pics ?---------- I think what is going to make this build easier for me is that I have that extra motor carrier frame , so I should be able to take my time and build it while still being able to use the cart , then just 4 bolts and it's in and from there it will just be wiring and linkages ----------- I think I might be able to sell what ever parts are left over from the ATV , and two running GY6-R motors and recoup a few bucks -----------I am excite about this project , I enjoy building and thanks M-M you are the one who inspired me to do it

[metalstudman1]

I'm glad he called you back- this thread is your buggy with a 250es, difference is this is a shaft drive and turned sideways- but a general idea:
http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1602
Posts #19 & #20 on this thread shows another mounting idea:
http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159
Post #49 shows another possiblity for a mount:
http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1290
sorry if this makes for too much reading!!! At some time or another you'll have to mock-up the new engine & swingarm to the chassis to verify you have clearances. Good game plan, having the second swingarm to modify and still have your functioning buggy to play in while taking your time with the new build
We're here to help with any futher questions you might have as you get started-

[rocko]

I'm bumming cause I got the shaft , went to get the cart and it is shaft drive and not chain drive , I asked and I guess I never listened or it wasn't said ------------ it has reverse , auto transmission and electric start , so I didn't go for it ---------I do have a ready to go Honda fourtax 300 rear axle that is the spare for my 300's , not sure if a 250 and 300 are interchangable and I would bet you could make it work with the shaft driven rear axle , but it would have to be made longer ----------the guy who has the 250EX seems to know alot about them and he says the 300EX and 400EX are sprocket drive but the 250 is a shaft , I wonder if a shaft driven motor can be converted to sprocket without major modifactions ------------ thanks for all the info it is going to come in handy cause I am going to find one

[metalstudman1]

If you'd read the 1st link I gave you!!!:Posts #5 & #6 http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1602
I showed a way to convert the shaft to chain. I'd have gone for the 250 because it's and semi-auto. I've spent a lot of time trying to see if using the shaft would work on a buggy. I have the 250es differential but making axles & drive shaft longer would be very expensive. I do custom stuff but I try to leave the expensive factory stuff alone in-case I need to replace it. So taking the drive shaft yolk (very common/cheap part) and converting it to chain only involving that one part and easy enough to make again leaving the buggy axle stock & availabilty to change axle sprockets for correct gearing.IMO The 4-wheeler rear ends are too narrow to use and be safe when driving hard. Just from my little amount of experience & testing you really need 44" hub to hub for a stable 2-seater.

[rocko]

Your right I didn't read all your post on the transformation before hand , I never even gave thought of a side ways motor step up , I was thinking straight ahead -------------- I have a high tech machine/welding fabrication shop that I use for all my heavy equipment repairs that I have known the owners for 25 plus years and I bring them a lot of work , so from past experiences with them I doubt they would even charge me to do the retro fitting of the sprocket and output shaft if I wasn't in a hurry , I think I could duplicate your method , which I must say your planning and craftsmanship is very impressive ------------ I am kinda glad it went the way it did that I didn't buy the 250EX , I am going to regroup and come up with another plan , I have a 300 Fourtrack engine that needs an upper rebuild and now that I have seen your conversion of shaft to sprocket it makes that engine look good as I have two up and running 300 Fourtraxs and a good supply of extra parts for them , so the the buggy and both ATV's would all use the same parts ----------- I kinda got the feeling that a 250 and 300 are the same block with a different jug , piston and carb jetting , and I am going to have my guy at Honda check that out for me ---------- I would hate to lose the chance at the 250ex for $350 as it looks good , but I think I need to think this out a little more before making a move

[rocko]

On the wheel base issue ,, I killed two birds with one shot , I had some Crager chrome hub caps 10" rear and 8 " front but couldn't put them on the front wheels as there wasn't enough of lip to hold them , when I tried to flip the wheels , as they are extremely off set , the valve stems hit the rotor , I got some of the button valves they use on show and race cars , the stem is removeable and when removed a threaded plug is installed in the fitting , this cleared the rotor , I redrilled the rims and installed threaded with rubber grommet 90 degree valve stems long enough to clear the hub caps , on the rear I used 3 inch wheel spacers and flip the rims the same as the front but didn't have to drill the rims as it is easily filled with air from the inside , this really increased the wheel base , it is about a foot wider in the rear and about 8 inches in the front , I have plans on getting a set of 2 inch wheel spacers for the front to line the wheel base width up from front to back , but think it will make the turning radius worst , I had read a post somewhere on how to grind and add an extra tooth on the steering rack to increase the turning

[metalstudman1]

I think there is actually a tutorial on the grooving the rack @ buggy depot? I did it to 2 of our racks with no problem- other than the day I did it on my wife's Spiderbox her X-husband took it out and the very first turn he rolled it (I warned him too),nice broken arm!! Of course the wheel has to turn 1-1/4 rotations but the turning radius is worth it. You can file it or grind it if you've got a steady hand,you only need to add 2 grooves per side.