Transmission Clicks when in Gear

[lohner]

zircon 150cc buggy. kids would often not wait for engine to slow down before attempting to put in gear.

Today there is a loud click sound only when the buggy is in gear and wheels are spinning. Faster the wheels spin the more frequent and louder the clicking. Actually sounds more like a bang then a simple click.

Do we think the gears are stripped? Maybe wheel bearing? If I do need to replace some parts where is the best place to get them.

On second thought I am thinking that it might be the clutch. I remember smelling clutch. Could that cause the banging noise?

I prefer to upgrade parts when I have to change them out.

[x-bird]

tough to say, only way to know is begin teardown. start with cvt cover to inspect the clutch for broken spring etc. if nothing there, then go into the trans to see if they sheared a tooth off a gear or you have a bearing coming apart.

[2SlickNick]

Maybe if you could make a video so we could here the sound too. Maybe with the rear wheels on jack stands. Try to isolate the sound. Use a piece of tubing like a stethoscope.

[SYCARMS]

Common problem with the internal reverse. It is most likely the cluster and secondary missing some teeth. What you described will do this 100% of the time.

[wildbob]

I may be way off here, but when I was getting "clicking" it turned out to be a axle bearing. I jacked up the rear so i could spin the wheels, and would touch the axle/wheels/frame to see if I could feel it click. Zero'ed right on to a bearing. Just my 2 cents.

[SYCARMS]

I made that diagnosis from what was posted about the kids not letting engine idle before putting it in gear. It could be the axle but they usually don't bang or clunk. If I had to bet money on an axle or tranny from what he described I would 100% put my money on the tranny, but both should be checked.

lohner I missed part of your post. I have access to any parts you will need for your buggy. Just give me a call.

[lohner]

UPDATE: Here were the diagnostic steps I performed today.

1) Removed chain cover and notice there was some slack in chain. Tightened
2) Removed CVT cover and every thing looked fine

Bolted everything thing back and took for a drive. Could still hear some clanking and at one point the wheels locked up. Seemed like reverse was fine. At the end couldn't get it in gear at all.

I am guessing it is the transmission.

I am certain the original owner is the culprit. He told me that when putting it in drive if it grinds to put it in reverse then drive. Pretty sure he was the one that began this problem. Sure, my kids have had issue doing this same thing, trust me they were told better, but I think it was too late and bound to happen.

Is it common for this transmissions to have issues?
Where can I find QUALITY replacement parts?
What advice do you have for getting better low-end torque?

My thought is that if I have to start replacing engine parts that I want to have a plan on how to improve it. The thing goes plenty fast but I would like to have it do better in the mud. Eventually I will want to upgrade carb, injectors, etc but since I have to rebuild the transmission first I will worry about the engine latter.

So the final question is with the ultimate goal being better low end and maintaining or increasing top speed what would be the laundry list of parts to accomplish this?

-Thanks

[SYCARMS]

Give me a call 662-301-1563. I can get you the parts for the tranny but you will have to tear it down to access just what is needed. We can also discuss what to do to get you more power.

[lohner]

It has been a few months but I finally tore it down. The final drive shaft gear is missing a couple teeth and one of the gears on the gear cluster is chewed to hell.

Also, the roller weights are torn up too. Most of them are flat on one side and one even had a big chunk of material missing.

I believe the issue started with the previous owner. He had the idol set too fast and was grinding the gears.

With all that said I have some purchases to make. I have these questions I would like your help with please
1) Can the power band be changed just by replacing/upgrading the Gear Cluster and Final Drive or will multiple gears need to be replaced?
2) What recommendations do you offer to a) increase low end torque and b) increase top speed. (i know I can't have both but would like to see what options I have in both cases)
3) How common are these parts? Do I need to order from the manufacturer or do I have other options?

Thanks for your support.

Another question.

Can I tear down a gear cluster? Only one gear is bad on the cluster.

I was wonder if my problem could be solved by buying something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chinese-Scoo...e19768&vxp=mtr

[SYCARMS]

Those are the final drive gears used in the older scooter GY6 motors that had the external reverse. The Zircon used the new style engine with internal reverse. For sure your cluster gear is torn up, with one of 2 other gears usually. Give me a call 662-301-1563 or email me at tom@sycpowersports.com

[lohner]

UPDATE:

First of all much thanks to Tom from www.sycpowersports.com He has not only been very helpful in diagnostics and advice he was able to get the parts I needed at a fair price.

So it was the cluster gear and the final gear that were all jacked up. Final gear was missing 3 or 4 teeth and one of the gears on the cluster was just shredded.

So when I was putting things back together, at 1 AM (BAD IDEA), one of the gears missed it's hole on the other side and it drove right through the case. Time to call Tom again to get a replacement case.

Since the case was destroyed my neighbor was able to get the bearings out without too much concern. So now this is where I am at.

1) Can I or should I even try to save the seals?
2) If I can save them how do I get them out?
3) Do I need someone to press the bearings back in or can this be done, with caution, by my neighbor and I. NOTE: the neighbor is a really handy hillbilly.

It's looking like the seals would be less then $20 shipped. I understand the logic in replacing them but, considering the kart has very few hours on it and the seals look good I was wondering if I could save some money here.

Can I reuse the seals?

Thanks for the help guys.

[SYCARMS]

Unless they were leaking I would leave them alone. The bearing could be reused as well.

[lohner]

FINALLY DONE! Being the first time I have ever worked on a motor like this I made a few stupid mistakes but finally got the thing put back together and the kids are elated that this project is finally over.

I hope that I am not fooling myself believing I see great improvements using the lighter Dr. Pulley sliders but I seem to have noticed
1) A faster take off
2) smoother shifting
3) smoother engaging into drive or reverse (although this could be that the gears were already a bit trashed when I bought the kart)

Thanks again to Tom from sycpowersports.com for the help. Could not have done it without the great parts and more importantly the great advice. I recommend anyone looking for parts to contact sycpowersports.com first.

[lohner]

ANOTHER ISSUE!

Drove for about 3 hours last night and another 3 hours today. Can put in reverse fine no problem but when I can get into drive the transmission will slip out of gear. I notice that there is some play in the cable. I can move the cable at least a quarter of an inch with just a finger when in drive.

Is it possible that the cable has too much slack in it now so it is not fully engaging into drive?

[SYCARMS]

Yes check your cable adjustments. If you refer to the manual it will instruct in the proper adjustment. It's really easy.

TOM

[lohner]

Fixed the problem. The part that connects to the engine (not sure the name of it) with the shift cables is what I adjusted. I pulled it and rotated a few clicks at a a time until I got the results I was looking for. All is gear issues are fixed!

[lohner]

SUMMARY AND CONCLUSION:

SYMPTOM: Loud banging noise when in gear resulting ultimately in locking the transmission.

CAUSE: Most likely abuse and gear grinding by kids. Training issue.

FIX: Replace cluster gear and final drive gear. The cluster gear was torn up and final drive missing teeth.

TROUBLES ALONG THE WAY:
* Trying to remove variator without impact wrench. Damaged variator face plate
* Putting case back together at 1:30 AM and not making sure all gears/posts were lined up. Push post through case.
* Forgetting to put plug from CVT to Transmission back. Fluid into CVT area
* Not setting the shift cable mechanism properly. Eventually resulted in cart slipping out of drive

[SYCARMS]

Just look at it as tuition paid for a lesson learned. Just remember numbers 2 and 3 were avoidable. They were not due to lack of knowledge but due to getting in a hurry. Been there done that. The one thing is, if you learned the lesson you will never repeat the mistake.