BBK and BB case

[SLESTAK75]

I dont remember how close my valves were to the edge of the chamber mb. Sometimes the new jugs are shorter than the ones that came off and that is why there is need for multiple gaskets. Some use the gasket that connects the bore to the block and others use the head gasket. At least I have read of people doing that.

[SLESTAK75]

Jman. Don't be scared. You shouldn't have an issue. Im pretty sure that the issue mb is having has to do with the deck height of the new bore being slightly less than his old one.

[SLESTAK75]

Mb. You got a new case and bore right?? But you are using the old crank and rod is that right?? Because if the new bore requires a slightly shorter rod then that could also account for the valve hitting too. Or the stroke of the crank could be slightly longer due to the fact that your old bore and case were slightly longer. Im just brainstorming here. Give Tom a call for real. He has seen many different engines and I know he has help for you.

[SYCARMS]

Was the piston installed the correct way? Some will have an IN near one valve relief and some will have ex near relief. In would be toward Intake side as ex would be toward exhaust side.Just run into this with another customer and his piston was installed incorrectly. This is easy to overlook.

[Johnny 5]

Does the piston at top dead center stick out past the cylinder? Did you install a stroker crank? A extra base gasket will give you clearance. I marked the flywheel and the pointer on the case when installing my cam because the pointer isn't dead on. Take the head off and put it at top dead and mark it. it is easy to be off a tooth. I hope this helps.

[jmansracerocket]

Do I need an extra gasket then with my head being shaved .030

[mb1134]

You shouldnt. I will post what i find tonight. I had all the parts taken out of my Trailmaster gy6 and put into another gy6 case i bought off of Tom. Could be one of multiple issues. I will try to find it out tonight and keep everyone posted.

[SYCARMS]

MB1134's problem is not with the head for the piston is hitting the head which appears to be a deck height issue and has nothing to do with the head.

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

Do I need an extra gasket then with my head being shaved .030

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by SYCARMS

MB1134's problem is not with the head for the piston is hitting the head which appears to be a deck height issue and has nothing to do with the head.

Ok so the single gasket with have plenty of clearance?

[SLESTAK75]

You should not have any issues jman.

[SLESTAK75]

I put my shaved head right on mine and the only problem I had was more power and nowhere to ride.

[SYCARMS]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

Ok so the single gasket with have plenty of clearance?

Yes you will have plenty of clearance.

[mb1134]

Well just a heads up.... Tom is sending a spacer and gasket to try and clear up the issue of the piston setting about even with the top of the cylinder. I am confident it will work out and hope to get this sucker back on the road for this wonderful weather.

[SLESTAK75]

It'll work fine mb and you'll have it going soon. Lots of people will use extra gaskets when putting stroker cranks in so they get the extra clearance.

[Johnny 5]

I am using the 1.6mm spacer with two gasket for the 3mm stroker. The problem I ran into was the chain was so tight and I couldn't get the cam to sit in the head. I called three machine shops and was referred to the one I just called and was turned down with cant help you. I asked one shop if they can machine my gy6 head and he said GY WHAT?

So I saw on youtube how to mill you head, used 320 wet sand paper on the granite counter top or a thick piece of glass. I measured the head thickness and started to sand away with water and dish soap to get .015 off the head. I had to measure it often and spin the head in figure 8s to get even cut. It took about 1 1/2 hours or more of sanding and about 5 sheets of paper. I finished it with 600 wet grit for smooth surface.

After this the cam sat flat and the chain had a little slack in it. You need to apply more pressure on the thicker part of the head to get a even cut, and measure often to keep the head square.

[jmansracerocket]

He said he didn't go with a stroker crank I thought

[SYCARMS]

Were not spacing him quite as much as you had to with the stroker crank. It just stumps me as to why he has this problem. Somewhere between the new cylinder bore and case and the old one are some spec differances. I've done a couple ASW rebuilds using the same cylinder as I sold him without any problems. The case is from ASW which ASW, Trailmaster, Kandi and Hammerhead use the same case manufactured by the same company for Hammerhead. The majority of the new GY6 engines with internal reverse are Hammerhead engines. Just so happend Murphy is currently visiting Georgia at this time but were about to kick his @ss out. I feel bad cause MB1134 really wants to get his buggy running. And I thank him for being so patient.

[mb1134]

And the worst part of it all is I quit smoking the same day i started reinstalling the engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Talk about a cloudy head and many cuss words.

[SLESTAK75]

Was the piston in right mb?? That was a good point thats easy to overlook.

[mb1134]

Yes, it was in properly.

[Johnny 5]

Mb1134 I quit smoking 10 years ago and it was the best thing ever. Don't let this problem derail your effort to quit. When the problem is fixed you will have more buggy skills to get you through the next buggy problem. If we were okay with the stock performance we would ride all day, but we need more power and must modify.
Do you have any pictures of the piston and deck clearance?

[SLESTAK75]

Johnny said it all. I've been off cigarettes for 6+ years and no doubt, stick with it. It's one choice you will NEVER regret making. And you'll have so much more money to mod mod mod.

[mb1134]

Yeah, i quit for 5 years, but went back to the habit for a couple years. then quit for 11 months after my father was diagnosed with emphyzema, then back for the last few months. As much as i enjoy them, the side effects just suck.

[MASTERBATES]

Could the piston possibly be off milled for the rod to piston connector pin? I've ran into this problem a few months back on a friend warrior, and it was even a namura brand piston. So don't always follow the hype of name brand products, because even the some of the best tend to slip up some times. Just a thought

[mb1134]

No idea. But the deck spacer will be in today, so i may get to put it back togther this evening and see how she goes.

[SLESTAK75]

Come on 50 horsepower!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Johnny 5]

On nitro for about 3 seconds than boom.

[mb1134]

I would be happy with 25hp. bahahaha

[mb1134]

Well i installed my spacer and gasket yesterday evening and got it to crank up. It seems like when i give it some gas it is making a squeaking noise. Maybe the piston in the sleeve? Thats the best i can explain it.

[SLESTAK75]

You did put oil in it right???

[mb1134]

funny guy! I did think maybe the piston wasnt lubed enought when i got it back in the cylinder and tightened everything back down. I really have no idea. Will check my oil level again and make sure its not running low at all.

[SLESTAK75]

The last time I put mine together I had something rubbing in the cvt. it went away. Do you hear the squeel at all rpms?? If something was rubbing in the engine I would think you would feel it whem hand cranking the flywheel.

[mb1134]

It seemed hard to hand crank with just the cylinder on it. I was cranking it so i could get a look at TDC and it seemed like it always wanted to move the cylinder also. Maybe something with the rings going on there?

[SYCARMS]

If cyl. is not bolted down the piston with rings installed will push the cyl. up.

[SLESTAK75]

What he said

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by SYCARMS

If cyl. is not bolted down the piston with rings installed will push the cyl. up.

Where do you think the squealing is coming from? possibly from the rings contacting the cylinder wall improperly?

[SYCARMS]

The only thing that comes to mind is if when installing one of the lower rings was not in the land compressed and force was used causing that thin ring to bend and wedge between the cyl and piston.

[mb1134]

well i have the buggy up and running. I believe the squealing noise is gone. i rode her for a little bit to break the new piston in. I must say, without being able to go full throttle, she feels much more powerful. Well worth the investment aslong as nothing goes wrong with the engine.

On a side note, i purchased the NCY cdi, but it doesnt work with my buggy. I was told by the company that it was for both ac and dc before i purchased. I shoulda known better. As my buggy wouldnt start and then the fuse blew.

[jmansracerocket]

mb I bought my cdi off ebay and works fine tons of them come up

[mb1134]

Well as far as i know, the cdi is built either ac or dc specific. I bought the NCY and the seller says it will work on either. It however did not when i hooked it up to my buggy which needs a dc powered cdi. I could be wrong and my fuse could have just blown for some odd reason. correct me if i am wrong anyone.

[SLESTAK75]

Man. Sounds awesome. Maybe one day I will feel that power. I'd like to eventually put a ported and polished 4-valve head on a big bore. No stroker though. On the CDI I would contact the seller and tell them exactly what happened and try to get a replacement. I have never seen one that is both ac and dc. Not to say they don't exist, I've just never seen one.

[mb1134]

I have contacted them twice with no luck so far. I purchased stuffoff of him before. They are on ebay as gy6racingteam. Hopefully he will respond back. Anyone know of a good cdi? One thats not a cheap piece of junk, rather one made by a reputable company? Any preferences?

[SLESTAK75]

I just got the cheap orange DC CDI and It works fine for me.

[SYCARMS]

Your stock CDI should be fine. Most CDI's claim to advance timming but all CDI's advance the timming. Most of what you will find will be designed around the much lighter scooter and uses a different timing curve then the buggy does. You deffinately have a DC CDI. I have heard the claims from some that it will work on both AC and DC. I don't believe it. They will either be set up as AC or DC since they are two completely different currents. If you had an AC cdi I would suggest a performance due to the short duration spark they provide however the DC CDI's do not have this problem like the AC does. Your rev limit is capped at 7800 RPM and I do not believe your engine is going to make any more power over this RPM.

[SLESTAK75]

I went from stock to the orange and I can not say one way or the other whether it added anything or not. I may eventually do some comparisons.

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by SYCARMS

Your stock CDI should be fine. Most CDI's claim to advance timming but all CDI's advance the timming. Most of what you will find will be designed around the much lighter scooter and uses a different timing curve then the buggy does. You deffinately have a DC CDI. I have heard the claims from some that it will work on both AC and DC. I don't believe it. They will either be set up as AC or DC since they are two completely different currents. If you had an AC cdi I would suggest a performance due to the short duration spark they provide however the DC CDI's do not have this problem like the AC does. Your rev limit is capped at 7800 RPM and I do not believe your engine is going to make any more power over this RPM.

So after adding the BBK, A10 camshaft, and your P&P big valve head you dont think i will make anymore power to warrant getting a CDi with a higher rev limit?

Also do you think it would be worth it to step up to the A12 cam or stick with the A10? I love the low end and will be happy running 40 tops aslong as i get there quickly. Whats your thoughts Tom?

[SLESTAK75]

On the CDI, I would say don't spend on a high dollar one as you don't know if it will be a benefit or not. I believe Johnny5 said one of his buggies ran better with it while the other actually ran worse. It really depends on the buggy. Because quality assurance is pretty much nonexistent, some of these buggies will have timing that's already advanced by the pickup. In that case you could actually advance the timing too far with the performance CDI and get performance that is not as good as with stock. So, it depends on the buggy. It's worth trying because you could get a gain, but because there is a chance of actually losing performance I would not go all out on your first one. Mostly it's the advance of timing that gives performance more than the loss of the rev limiter. That just makes it easier to blow your motor up.

[SLESTAK75]

I knew there was something else. On moving to the A12 or not, I can't say. I know I am really impressed with the A12 on mine. I also know that most have said the A12 is the most effective at increasing the bottom end. I; however, have no experience with, nor do I know much about the A10 so I can't help you with that one.

[SYCARMS]

It all comes down to your type of driving and what terrain. No differant then a car or truck. Do you want to climb or mud bog then you get this cam, do you want to race dirt track or oval then you will get this cam and if you want to drag race you will get this cam. You don't buy a drag cam for climbing, bogging, or oval racing. A-10 and A11 cams are all around sport cams for flat windy trails with occasional hills.

[mb1134]

Just an update. I swapped the main jet to a 140 and she seems to be running alright. Infact, she ran like a crackhead from the cops! Power and pull everywhere with this bad boy. I dont even notice the shift in gears.

[Johnny 5]

I got my orange cdi from scrappy dog scooters and it worked best on the red 155cc motor.
The blue 183cc motor likes the stock cdi, probably due to the larger piston and the cylinder spacer causing a bit of advance in cam timing.
Larger pistons like less timing for a better burn is what I remember from my 350 to my 406 small block chevy. My 350 ran great with 40/42 total timing and my 406 liked 35/36 timing.
I got to test the 13/43 gears yesterday and went to a 127.5 main jet from a 125 and it runs awesome. I changed the gear oil two times after running it to get any metal or shavings out from opening the case.

[SLESTAK75]

Thats awesome mb. Sounds like the A10 is an all around, down the middle sort of cam. With all the power from the big bore, maybe good to stick with the A10. Have you gotten her wide open yet.....? No pun intended. So $120 and it's mine...right??

[SLESTAK75]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

I got my orange cdi from scrappy dog scooters and it worked best on the red 155cc motor.
The blue 183cc motor likes the stock cdi, probably due to the larger piston and the cylinder spacer causing a bit of advance in cam timing.
Larger pistons like less timing for a better burn is what I remember from my 350 to my 406 small block chevy. My 350 ran great with 40/42 total timing and my 406 liked 35/36 timing.
I got to test the 13/43 gears yesterday and went to a 127.5 main jet from a 125 and it runs awesome. I changed the gear oil two times after running it to get any metal or shavings out from opening the case.

Sweet Johnny. So thats with the 31t sprocket and changing out the drive gear?? I hope you'll give details of your impressions as you have more time to test it out.

[MASTERBATES]

That's awesome to hear mb!

[jmansracerocket]

Good to hear mb

[Johnny 5]

I removed the gears (13/40) from my red dune 150 with the howhit motor and it fits with no grinding (13/43). Took the gear to work and pressed it out and in and going to clean the old gaskets off and see how it runs. Having two buggys you got to do it twice for twice the fun. It was a good thing because the gear oil was dark and I changed it last year about 5 3 day trips and it is ugly looking. I guess I should keep up on it more often.

[mb1134]

Originally Posted by SLESTAK75

Thats awesome mb. Sounds like the A10 is an all around, down the middle sort of cam. With all the power from the big bore, maybe good to stick with the A10. Have you gotten her wide open yet.....? No pun intended. So $120 and it's mine...right??

I think i will be sticking with the A10. It seems to not miss a beat anywhere through the whole power range. I have topped it out around 45 so i am happy with the top end. I believe anymore torque and it would just spin tire coming up hills. I will live with this setup for now. The only issue i need to figure out is my Tachometer on the Trailtech. It seems to run right around 800rpm when it first starts up, but settles around 1000 once the engine warms up. Other than that the Vapor keeps track of all your top marks (speed, rpm, temp, tc.). The highest rpm the vapor has read is just over 4500. I am thinking that is wrong, but i have no idea.

[SLESTAK75]

Sounds like you got it just where you wanted it. You cant beat that.

[mb1134]

I believe so. Just hope it holds up to my punishment.

[Johnny 5]

I have the trail tech mini tach and had to add 2 1/2 feet of wire to it and it starts and stops like the motor was shut off. If I remove the wire lead it works fine but is to short. I am going to run a smaller diameter wire to see if that will fix it. The blue buggy tach with added wire works fine I think the wire is small in diameter than what I used for my buggy.

[mb1134]

I believe i used either a 20 or 22 gauge wire to extend it. What kind of rpm readings were you getting?

[SYCARMS]

Not sure what gauge it is but phone wire is what is needed to extend the tach wire. It cannot be stranded it has to be the single strand.

TOM

[Johnny 5]

The blue buggy tach is working but the red one isn't giving a good signal. It would read about 400/500 rpms and stop. The only way I got it to work was to get rid of the 2 1/2 foot extension and run it between the seats. I am going to find some single strand wire and check it.

Thanks tom that makes sense.

[jmansracerocket]

45 mph is flying for a 150cc congrats. Question on that ? Is that reading on trail riding or flat pavement?

[jmansracerocket]

Also what's ur gearing?

[mb1134]

I have no idea what the gearing is. The 45 was on pavement as the trails i went riding on had no flat straightaways.