New to Gy6 Karts

[antonioe202]

Hi every body i just bought a maxxam 150 2r for real cheap.
Im new to the whole gokart scene but i have a dirt bike that i work on all the time. I have basic backround on how to work on engines. The problem i guess im having is some sort of electrical problem. Its not getting any spark to the spark plug. Another thing is when i go to turn the key it does not do any thing. But it does turn over when i put the screwdriver on the starter solenoid.

If any one can help me out that would be awesome
Thanks Antonio

[metalstudman1]

This tells you to check all the electrical connections back to the ignition- this could be a loose connection to a broken wire or no ground.Your main fuse should be on the other positive wire leaving the battery-check it.

[antonioe202]

Thanks for the quick reply, i dont know much when it comes to these karts by ignition are you talking about where the key goes or the piece that connects to the spark plug? and also how can i tell if blew the fuse or not, what does it look like? Another question do you know if my gokart is ac or dc powered so i know which cdi to get.
Thanks,

[SYCARMS]

It should be an AC cdi unless the buggy is a 2008 or later. To determine this there are 2 ends that plug into the cdi, a small and a larger plug. The smaller one will have either 1 wire going to it DC, or 2 wires AC. He was refering to all wires from the engine compartment electrical box up to the ignition switch. The fuse should be located right in the electrical box and to check it visually look to see if the thin metal inside of fuse is burned and open. You can also use an ohm meter to check.

[antonioe202]

Ok thanks for the help ill let ya know what i find out.

[antonioe202]

Well i took the whole dash board off too take a look at all the wires under it, well when i took off the actual key ignition thing heres what i found...

[IMG][/IMG]

Then there was the engine off button that had no wires going to it, but would it still be able to turn off when i just turn the key the other way? But other than those wires that werent connected to the key ignition every thing else looked good to me. Could this be why im not getting spark at the plug and still be able too turn it over when i put a screw driver on the soleniod
Another question how come when i put the screw driver on the solenoid it tries to start? like what happens? I know these are newbie ??'s but ill get the hang of it.
Thanks,

Here is the kill button, i put those wires on just for the heck of it but no luck.


[IMG][/IMG]

[SYCARMS]

When you jump at the solenoid you are putting 12V to the start side since the one lead comes off the battery. Since the hot was not attached to the switch you had no power to close the contacts in the solenoid to put the 12V to the starter.

[antonioe202]

Oh ok that makes a little more sense so could that be why it not getting any spark, because its like trying to start it iwth it bieng in the off position??
Thanks,

[SYCARMS]

Not sure what ignition you have but appears to be a key switch to turn on power and a seperate start switch for cranking. If so when you turn the key switch it applies power to the start switch and ignition.

[antonioe202]

its a three wire with red, black and a red and yellow combined, it has three movements one for off another for an accessories, and then i guess its spring loaded to turn on the engine.

[SYCARMS]

Replace the switch and you should be good to go.

[antonioe202]

Awesome thats the best new ive heard all day! Is there any chance i could soulder the wires back to the the ignition because i have no idea on where to find parts for this thing.
Thanks

[T3beatz]

you should be able to solder them with no problems, as long as you have a hot enough solder gun.

What happens if you touch a couple of the wires together? will it start? wait make sure you touch the right colors together, you should get it to turn over.

[antonioe202]

I should have the tools to do the job, ive never tried it because i im not sure which wires to connect together.

[T3beatz]

follow them from the back, its probably the red/yellow and solid red, the black is usually ground. The green and black or the kill wires, open circuit and the engine runs, closed and the engine turns off.

[antonioe202]

So where would they go, in the pic of the ignition there are three things that look like there were wires there, but that little circle to the left would any wires goin in there. Im not sure on where to put them.
Thanks

[T3beatz]

basically you can look and see where the solder broke off, if you have three wires there should be three spots to re-solder. It's trial and error, that's why I say touch them together and see which ones get the buggy started.

The green and the black from the other pic just control the kill, the green is from the CDI and the black goes to ground. If you touch them together the engine will not run (kill) it just re-routes the ground from the CDI. If they are not touching the buggy should be in run mode.

[antonioe202]

alright, But on the ignition dont they have certain spots to be put in?

[T3beatz]

yep they do... the ignitions with the spade type plugs on them are much better, you can swap them around and see what goes where. You can try and tape them on temporarily to see if you can get it to fire up, if not then your gonna have to do a lot of soldering. (that's why I say before you solder make sure you can get the buggy to start up).

Or you can go out and get a lawnmower ignition that will fit the hole (most of them come with the spade connectors.

[antonioe202]

Well i can get the buggy to start by jumping the solenoid if thats what you mean, but i have not tried putting the wires together i guess i will have to try that tommorow what would happen if i put the wrong ones together

[antonioe202]

Im sorry not stat i ment turn over

[T3beatz]

I doubt that you will hurt anything (from my understanding they are all supposed to touch for the buggy to start anywho)... Have you tried finding the manual or a wiring diagram for the buggy online?

To start you turn the key one click and that engages/disengages the kill, then you turn it all the way and the starter kicks on, once the buggy is running you let off the key and it stays in the first position until you turn it off.

That's the way my old crossfire 150 worked... it also had the black and green wires on the toggle for the kill, but the switch broke and I just disconnected them and wrapped them (not connected).

[antonioe202]

oh ok and yeah thats sounds about right for the ignition well ill get back to ya tommorow when i work on those wires. So if i just left those kill button wires not hooked up to any thing ill still be able to turn it off by using the key switch right?

[antonioe202]

one more thing, If this soldering thing doesnt work out would a lawn mower shop have the same kind of ignition with a 3 wire and connector.

[T3beatz]

Most of the time the lawnmower ones have 5 pins, but they still work. You just have to hook the wires up to the right ones, trial and error.

The buggy should work without the green and black wires hooked up... but it depends on your wiring. You'll see tomorrow, I guess! lol

[antonioe202]

Alright sounds good.

[SYCARMS]

Send a pic of the plug end of the switch. I may have a switch in stock. Be careful black is not always groung on these buggies. Touching a ground to hot can short out your stator.

[antonioe202]

Alright will do.

[T3beatz]

Originally Posted by SYCARMS

Send a pic of the plug end of the switch. I may have a switch in stock. Be careful black is not always groung on these buggies. Touching a ground to hot can short out your stator.

That's why I told him to trace the wires back...

All you have to do is find the plug in the back from the wires in the front look at the corresponding wires on the other side of the plug and see where they go in the electrical box. Most likely they all have something to do with the starting system

If this is your buggy here is the manual and it has a WD with it... http://www.familygokarts.com/pdf/man...parts_list.pdf It should help you out.

[antonioe202]

Alright im about to go to where the buggy is now since the its not at my house and ill take a bunch of pics and show ya what i got

[antonioe202]

So What does it mean when you plug the wires together and it doesnt do anything

[antonioe202]

Well i just got done messing with it i put in a new spark plug and put the kill button wires together and then at first i put the red and the red yellow together and got nothing then after that i tried the red with the black and it made a clicking noise each time i put them together, the sound came from some kind of thing attached to my dash board. Ill post up pics when i get home.

[T3beatz]

Also, check to see if your break switch is connected (you have to press the break for it to turn over). I disconnected mine and I now use the break switch for the break lights.

You don't want to put the kill button wires together... if they touch the engine will not spark, that's what makes the kill work by closing the circuit to those two wires. When they are open, it allows the spark to go trough the CDI and to the coil then to the plug.

[antonioe202]

I read some where that i didnt have one of those brake switches so i didnt have to worry about that. Do you know what that clicking noise meant when i connected the two wires together. And ok ill do it without the kill button wires connected next time but would that stop it from turning over?

[antonioe202]

Here is the plug piece of the ignition

[IMG][/IMG]

Here is the other side

[IMG]
[/IMG]

And here is a pic of the solenoid. some one told me that it doesnt turn over when the wires are connected then my solenoid may be bad. But if im putting the screwdriver on the solenoid to turn it over wouldnt show that its working
A bit stumped at this point now would really like to go for drive with this thing soon.

[antonioe202]

solenoid pic

[IMG][/IMG]

[x-bird]

that clicking is most likely a relay. the two you're touching together are "could be" a safety circuit of some type (brake switch etc). A kill switch will let you crank, but not fire. a safety switch will prevent the engine from cranking. ditto Tom's advice on wire color. make no assumptions with these. On mine, black is hot, green is ground. There should be aground attached to an engine case bolt find that, trace it back, it should lead to a junction of the same color wires all together. that's your ground color then. figure that out first to avoid doing any damage. On your ignition coil that goes to the spark plug will be a ground and a hot plugged in on the terminals. once you know the ground color, the other color on the coil is your primary 12v hot wire color. everything else becomes secondary source wiring after figuring those two out.

[antonioe202]

Could you say that in a bit simpler of a way as i now next to nothing about the electric stuff on these things. Sorry to be such a pain.

[T3beatz]

mistake

[antonioe202]

Hey it turns out you were right t3 beatz there is some sort of brake switch because i looked in that manual on a wiring diagram and there it was in black in white brake switch with the black wire going to it. Sorry bout that i must have been reading about a different kart i guess. So when i get a chance ill have to try it while pushing i that brake and see what happens.

[T3beatz]

yep, eventually you can disconnect the break switch and just hook the two wires together and use the break switch for something else like to turn on break lights when you press the pedal (if you don't already have them).

Look through that wire diagram and learn it... it will help you out.

[antonioe202]

Ya hopefully that will do the trick, on the wiring diagram the i followed the red and yellow wire to a rectangle no name on it there was a bunch of these. Could these be where the ground goes?

[antonioe202]

Well i tryed the wires today and this time i pushed in the brake and still got that clicking noise just sounded stronger then before. So just for some laughs and giggles i connecet the red yellow with the black and the red at the same time and sure enough it turned over but still no spark. What should i do next as now i can get it to turn over normally buy now i get no spark at the plug

[antonioe202]

What should i do next?? I know were close to getting this thing to crank.

[x-bird]

Originally Posted by antonioe202

Well i tryed the wires today and this time i pushed in the brake and still got that clicking noise just sounded stronger then before. So just for some laughs and giggles i connecet the red yellow with the black and the red at the same time and sure enough it turned over but still no spark. What should i do next as now i can get it to turn over normally buy now i get no spark at the plug

it sounds like both your brake safety switch (the one that when the wires are not connected, will not allow the engine to crank) and your kill switch wires are giving you fits.

Right now it sounds like you have connected the safety switch wires together or have the switch working (good) and also have the kill switch wires together (not good). the kill switch (button on the dash) will let the engine crank over, but will not let the coil energize the sparkplug. also sounds like Black is your positive lead. the clicking is a relay in the dash closing when the safety switch is "connected" allowing the voltage to pass through to the starting circuit. the clicking is good--indicates the relay is working and the safety switch wires are good. is the kill switch wires are connected, make sure the push button is not stuck in. That happens with mine a little tap or two pops it out and it fires right up.

[antonioe202]

Awesome but with the kill button wires that are green and black i left those basically dangling not touching any thing and tryed starting and still got to no spark to the plug. Im glad all that clickin is a good thing at first i thought i had broke it or shorted something as thats some that usually happens to me. What should i do next or check,replace im open to all options.
Thanks,

[x-bird]

looking at your pics, try moving one of the kill switch wires to the center spade connection. that's how mineis. don't know if it matters or not, but i made sure to look at all the connectors for scratch marks to make sure i put them all back the way they were before i got it. (picked up an engine with its harness just about fully disconnected)
do you have a volt meter or test light?
check for 12volts at the coil while cranking. if you have voltage there and no spark, either bad coil or plug. no voltage there, then you need to trace back from that point.

did you find a ground wire attached to the engine? usually a round terminal end on one of the CVT cover bolts.

[antonioe202]

Ill have to look as im not reall sure if i saw one but i should br able to pick up one of those volt meters just about anywhere right? And do i put the two ends of the volmeter on the coil like where should they be placed to get the best connection. And i a test light like one of the screwdriver looking things with a light bulb in it cause i have one of those.
Thanks for the fast replys

[T3beatz]

You have to just find out what is stoping the spark... it could be 1 of many things, just like Xbird said, kill switch wires touching or something not connected right in the back.

did you go through the wires in the back and make sure everything is plugged and the connections are clean?

Stator could be bad,
CDI could be bad,
Coil could be bad,
Spark plug??

Basically to rule out the kill switch/wire stuff you can unplug the kill wire from the CDI (top wire on the RT. side). With that unplugged once you crank the engine if the stator is working the CDI should send the signal to the coil and from there you should get a spark.

Multi meters can be found at any hardware store, Walmart, harbor freight, etc...

[antonioe202]

Would it be the like the same thing if i just took the kill button wires in the front off the button and just let them dangle or does the doing it at the cdi make it do some thing different

[antonioe202]

And by checking to see if they are clean what do you mean by that and what would i use to clean them up?
Thanks

[T3beatz]

checking to make sure they are making good contacts... scrape them or use electrical contact cleaner (one of them is free).

Well, yes and no. I was just saying disconnect that to eliminate the possibility of any problems up front we still don't know if the key switch can turn off the engine just like the kill switch. but if you just unplug it from the cdi you won't have to worry about that right now and you can focus on getting the buggy running. You can start it from the back by arching the solenoid or from the front with the wires you were messing with either way the cdi should fire.

[antonioe202]

Ok so take wire in the cdi and hope for spark and also clean connectors check... Will get back to ya with a report on what happens.
Thanks again for the quick replies

[T3beatz]

Originally Posted by antonioe202

Ok so take wire in the cdi and hope for spark and also clean connectors check... Will get back to ya with a report on what happens.
Thanks again for the quick replies

After looking at the WD again, it looks like your kill wire from the CDI just goes to the kill switch so you shouldn't have to unplug it from the CDI... sorry, just having it unplugged from the switch should be good enough.

The flow of power goes from the Stator to the CDI, from CDI to coil and from coil to spark.

This is Xbirds post and a good way to check if your CDI and or stator is working ok.

do you have a volt meter or test light?
check for 12volts at the coil while cranking. if you have voltage there and no spark, either bad coil or plug. no voltage there, then you need to trace back from that point.

The red of the multi meter goes on the hot side of the coil, mine is green don't know about yours. and the black goes to ground on the frame or engine.

[antonioe202]

Alright thanks ill give it a try

[T3beatz]

looking at your WD the puse wire from the CDI is Black/Yellow so whatever spade that is hooked to is the one you will connect the red from the multimeter to.

And The ground from the CDI goes to one of the relays and that relay is controlled by the black wire at the ignition so when the black is hooked to the red that is the clicking you hear, it is the internal ground to the cdi.which could turn it on and off too. So I think the red and black have to remain connected in order for the engine to run and lights to work, the yellow/red just runs the starter once started you can disco that wire.

it's crazy the way it works but the yellow/red and red wont just start the buggy unless the back and red are touching first. There are two relays, the main one has to turn on then the secondary one for the starting system.

So black and red touch you hear a click (relays working)... touch the yellow/red to them and start... remove it after buggy starts. That is the way you have to have it soldered to the ignition.

[antonioe202]

Oh ok is this wire coming from thre cdi?

[T3beatz]

yeah, that black/yellow wire should be coming from the cdi (per the diagram). I just edited my post and you can see how the ignition system works.

[antonioe202]

Alright but when i have the three ignition Wires all three of them have to connected first in ordrr for them to do any thing. But do you think that is why its not getting spark, cause ill try doing the red,black first and then add in the red yellow wire. Or do i have to find the electrical componet that may not be working correctly first. I dont know wht i should do next.
Thanks

[T3beatz]

That's what I'm saying... all three have to be connected to start the engine. Red and black trigger the relay that allows the red/yellow to be powered and engage the starter.

I don't think that is why it is not getting spark, the "no spark" could be one of the previous mentioned things. But up front the red and black at the ignition have to remain connected and the wires from the emergency kill switch should just be disconnected. from there it's up to the stuff in the back to work for you to get spark. It's better if you have a helper so one can crank while the other checks the electrics.

BTW, how you are you checking for spark at the plug?

[antonioe202]

Oh sorry i miss understood what ya said. Aright so ill chek the electrical componets in the back and see what i can find and for checking the spark plug i keep it plugged into the coil cap and put the end of the plug on the frame to find a spark. It s a new spark plug too

[T3beatz]

cool, that's the way I check mine... just make sure the frame has a good ground and the metal in the area is exposed. Well I hope all goes well for you, let us know how it goes, and if you can get some pics of your electrical components.

[antonioe202]

yah definitely and thanks again for the advice. and i found out that i have a dc cdi because when put the red and black together the lights can switch on and off with my light switch that it has. Correct me if im wrong on that by the way.

[T3beatz]

No, that does not mean you have a DC CDI, your lights are just wired directly to the battery power and not ran directly off of the Stator. If you look at the WD, Red is hot at the ignition, and once it touches black it becomes hot, The hot wire of the lights (blue) is connected to this circuit once you hit the switch.

If your buggy's CDI was DC powered the CDI would get it's power Directly from the battery, and looking at the WD, your CDI gets it's power from the Stator (AC).

If you have a printer you should print out the WD it will save you some headache in the future. If you have problems reading WD then no worries I'm ok at reading them.

[antonioe202]

Awesome yeah i have some questions about the wd. Theres wires that just go it to a random rectangle thats not labeled. What ar those for?
Thanks

[T3beatz]

If you are talking about the one in between the brake-switch and main relay. That seems to be some sort of secondary relay. That relay only comes on if the main relay is triggered. That one allows the starting system to work, that's why I said the black and red wires have to be connected so the yellow/red one can work.

When the black and red wires touch, the black is now hot and the break switch wire is connected to it now it is hot too. Since you've bypassed the break switch and connected those wires together as soon as the black and red at the ignition are touching that relay is also turned on allowing the yello/red wire to be able to complete it's circuit to the starter solenoid once you touch it to the black and red wires at the ignition.

I know it can be a bit confusing but after thinking of the relay as an electric on/off switch it gets easy. Two of the wires turn it on pos and neg, and the other two wires (top and bottom) are allowed to connect.

[antonioe202]

Thanks so much man for takin the time to help me understand all this. Tommorrow ill be going to mess with the kart some more using the volt meter and see wht i can come up with ill take pics and keep ya guys posted. Thanks again guys

[T3beatz]

Any updates?

[antonioe202]

Just got done messing with the go kart, i couldnt figure out how to use the voltmeter correctly so i just ordered a cdi and coil cause i figured a new on wouldnt hurt

[T3beatz]

Nope can't hurt! which volt meter did you get? and what didn't you understand about using the Volt meter? where to plug the black and red into it? or what to turn the dial to?

[antonioe202]

Yah i knew the settings just fine it was just where too put those darn things.... And like did the plugs have to be unplugged or what idk ?? So i just figured i try those two things first since they were so cheep

[T3beatz]

The black plugs into the bottom the red goes in the middle slot. as far as the plugs go, they don't have to be unplugged to test.

And as far as polarity goes, most of the time if you reverse the polarity on the tester plugs, it will just read negative.

Like if you put red to negative on the bat and black to pos... it will read something like -12.6VDC

[antonioe202]

The black plugs into the bottom of what??? Sorry for the dumb questions

[T3beatz]

Ohh I thought you meant on the multi meter... The black just has to go to any ground on the frame (a good ground). The red goes to whatever part you are testing.

[antonioe202]

Oh alright what all can you test for elctricity. Like what componets?
Thanks

[T3beatz]

you can test the voltage at the female coil spade, the green side one if I'm not mistaken. It will be the wire that comes from the CDI Black yellow. This will be a DC setting on the meter.

If you get nothing there then you can test the Black/red wire that is going into the coil on the bottom right side. This is the wire that comes from the Stator (main source of power for the CDI). this will be an AC setting on the meter.

After you tested those two I guess we can go from there.

[SYCARMS]

Here are some links that will give you access to manuals. These should show how to check your entire system in detail.




American Sportworks:
http://www.amsportworks.com/ipls.php

Carter Brothers:
http://catalog.carterbro.com/downloads.html

Hammerhead:
http://www.hammerheadoffroad.com/product_support.html

Yerf-Dog:
http://www.yerf-dog.com/manuals.html

[antonioe202]

Alright it ill given it another try.

[SYCARMS]

Although these manuald may be for a different buggy then you have the checks will be the same. The manuald will have very good step by step instructions along with the readings you should have.

[T3beatz]

Originally Posted by SYCARMS

Here are some links that will give you access to manuals. These should show how to check your entire system in detail.




American Sportworks:
http://www.amsportworks.com/ipls.php

Carter Brothers:
http://catalog.carterbro.com/downloads.html

Hammerhead:
http://www.hammerheadoffroad.com/product_support.html

Yerf-Dog:
http://www.yerf-dog.com/manuals.html

I put a link up to his manual earlier in the thread... that is the one I've been getting most of my wiring stuff from. http://www.familygokarts.com/pdf/man...parts_list.pdf

[antonioe202]

Sorry its been so long.... I just put in that cdi box and coil and no differende what so ever. Im a bit stumped now but ive been thinking of different things that could be the problem. How can i check if i have good ground because that may be it... Another thing is will it atleast get some spark at the spark plug even if the stator may be bad. It just wouldnt recharge my battery right?? Idk what else to do at this point. Could i call a electrician and see if he could find the spot or componet that isnt working the way it should??
Thanks,
Antonio

[T3beatz]

if the stator is blown nothing will work. A way to check is to take the hot wire from the stator that goes directly to the CDI (black/red) and plug the red lead from the meter to it. Hook the other side to ground, make sure the meter is set to AC... At idle I was getting around 25volts... so while cranking you should probably hit 14-16volts maybe... if you don't get anything then something may be wrong with the stator. You can also check the yellow from the plug from the stator also It should give you a about the same voltage readout.

for the ground just follow the black wire from the battery and make sure where it hooks to has a line that goes to the engine... If the engine is not grounded you will not get a spark, or the starter will not turnover.

[SYCARMS]

Go to one of those links given earlier and follow the trouble shooting. It's near impossible to trouble shoot on this end when we have no or little info from your end. Where are you located?

[antonioe202]

Thats true im in fort myers fl which is like southern west fl. Ill give the stator a check

[antonioe202]

Im not sure on how to find my ground wire, also the vult meter i bought i may not have been reading the volt settings right. Im not sure which one is for ac or dc. Sorry its been so long ive been busy with school but its over now so im putting all my attention to this
Gokart to atleast get it started.
Thanks