My Yerf upgrade thread

[x-bird]

Hello all; Picked up a stock 3203 a few weeks ago in decent shape and already am burning through the cut off discs metal stock and welding wire Figured I'd pop a few pics up here, for now I took care of a pretty sloppy driver's side spindle by welding a 1/4-in thick spacer to the top of the spindle (yes, it was that worn down--spindle tube and bracket were tapered out big time). It had a lot of play at the rear pivots, so that got the full upgrade treatment (pics below) --couldn't take the clanging and banging. For the time being the 6.5 engine is enough for my little woods loop. Next set of mods will be the front suspension over the winter (got a stockpile of 1-in chrome moly tubing for that). After the front gets done, i've been working up an independent rear suspension design -- that'll get done when it's time for a powerplant upgrade. Also going to add a new footbar for my little passenger.

I figure when it's time to re-do the rear end, I'll just be cutting the main cross bar right out. What i used was some 1-inch square stock from a bike trailer hitch kit, 1-inch round cro-mo, 3/4-in smooth bar stock that i threaded the ends on and welded a nut on on one side, and bronze bearings. pretty much everything is hardware store stock but for the cro-mo which i picked up from an acquaintance at half scale dragsters. Not a hint of slop or noise from it after about an hour of flat tracking and rocky woods thrashing.

[metalstudman1]

Nice job on the swingarm bushings.I never did change the 6.5 motor on the ones we had, the single A-arm was just too unstable on our trails to need more power.Good luck with your mod's.

[x-bird]

Originally Posted by metalstudman1

Nice job on the swingarm bushings.I never did change the 6.5 motor on the ones we had, the single A-arm was just too unstable on our trails to need more power.Good luck with your mod's.

I hear you on that ... I've already bent and straightened the steering link rods and the tie-rod arm mounts on the spindles a couple times after understeering and clipping trees while on the gas in the corners. If I had the money I'd just set this up for my daughter and buy myself something bigger. Got an idea for making hubs using 2-inch pipe floor mount flanges--I know they match the lug holes in golf cart rims perfectly ...

[metalstudman1]

I made the hubs that are on my wife's Spiderbox using pipe and 3/8" steel plate. Are the 2" pipe floor mount pieces galvanized?

[x-bird]

you can get them galvanized or bare (less common) they're threaded inside for two inch pipe, was thinking of welding (basically sleeving it) a piece of thin wall DOM tubing inside it for the bearings to set into.

[metalstudman1]

IMO- I wouldn't use the galvanized ones as they are soft-when welded become brittle.

[x-bird]

Here's a question for those who know these yerfs ... Should the pair of tubes that support the front suspension mounts come off of the main frame at a slightly upwards angle or level? Mine come off the front going upwards. I can't see any visible cracking in the paint at any of the joints or unusual bends on any of the front frame/cage tubing, but this thing definitely took a hard hit on a rock just about dead center and an inch or so below the a-arm bolts. It was enough to bend the front suspension mount plate backwards and cause the suspension to bind when the shocks were at full extension. I heated and bent the plate back (not perfect as there's still a bit of curvature where the a-arms meet the plate).

[Lyonsperf]

9 degree upward angle.

[x-bird]

TY, so it sounds like what I'm seeing is normal. Given the abuse I'm dishing out to this poor little thing, I wouldn't be surprised for it to change. lol

[x-bird]

Shot a pretty poor quality ride video yesterday and you tubed it. Like my feet lol ... did it hand held while going around the yard and woods (mini hells half acre). Tried my tripod mount in the cart today but I think my camera (JVC with an internal hard drive) is going into a drop detection/safety mode, shuts off even with just the engine running. When my firebird hits its 1-2 shift, it shuts it off as well. may have to break out the tony hawk helmet cam ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/ponchobird?feature=mhsn

[speedshopmike]

x-bird, do i know you from the PY forums?
i'm rockvillespeed there.
68 goat, 72 ta, 81 ta

[speedshopmike]

metalstudman, a question for you:
got a chance tomorrow to snag a spiderbox, looks all stock, doesn't run (sounds like the float's stuck or seat failed as gas runs out the carb when filled) for 200 bucks.
whatddya think, seem like a worthy deal?
if the motor's junk i'll swap a bike engine in; i have a 600cc L4 yamaha sitting here waiting for a home.
thank you!

[x-bird]

Hi mike ...yep, one and the same, small world eh? $200 is a really good deal for this area, i paid 350 for the 3203 and am working on creating a spiderbox style front end. most similar kart/buggy types around here are going for 400-600 unless they're complete project jobs.

[speedshopmike]

indeed it is.
i picked up my 3202 a couple months back for a hunnert bucks on a whim.
even with the wasted motor i've already well exceeded a hundred worth of fun so i'm happy.
fwiw, i've seen complete spiderbox front ends readily available for 100-150$.
i have a kawasaki quad front end laying around i'm gonna center-split & widen to use for the yerf.
disc brakes, big tires and good suspension all in one shot; it's too easy.
today will be first drive with the new HF clone installed; i hung that yesterday.
these primitive gizmos may be more fun than real cars...
they sure are cheaper and enjoyable to work on...i can't recall ever swapping a 455 in only 40 minutes (we can't even get to all of one side's header bolts in that much time, lol).

[x-bird]

You had to mention headers ---hooked my passenger collector flange (3-1/2 in) on a stormwater grate in a parking lot last month and am going to have to pull the header and exhaust system to fix the bend in the flanges. Pretty sure it bent the pipes as the whole system is now hitting the floorpan under the passenger seat ..... been avoiding that repair like the plague lol. Meantime, cracked the frame on the buggy at the rear tube where the engine mount plate meets it, so it's time for some repair and strengthening work. I'll take the buggy work any day ))))).
I've been looking at bmi's e-bay listings of used front ends-- I decided to fab my own. I want longer arms than stock with stronger tubing, as the stockers on mine came with kinks in them and for what i plan, i don't think they'll last. The $100 ones are also the unequal length jobs .... I "lucked" into a good parts score yesterday while cleaning the work shed. I've got a pair of spindle hubs from my wing mowers that lunched their bearings. Cast iron brutes. Threaded bolt pattern in them matches my golf cart rims perfectly, and the threading matches my John Deere front lug bolts, so rims and hubs are "done". The blade spindles are 1-inch diameter, with threaded ends and the blade "lock plate" on the other end matches the 2-in. 1/4 wall thickness square steel tubing I have. So that gives me axles and spindle material--gonna be heavier than I prefer, but i think that will reduce the wheel jounce and smooth out the ride over rough terrain. Next item on the hit list is designing the mounting box. Still debating a "plate" box design versus a cube of 1-in stock. Also dismantled a couple golf club racks for fenders, you guys will dig them, real nice looking. I've got a picture fest coming in the next week or two ....

[x-bird]

A little oops! Some bits and pieces I have for the front. One of the hubs is beyond salvaging I think, race seating area is distorted. The black box I'm thinking of mounting vertically height-wise with 3/16 plate reinforcement for the control arm mounts. Round tubing on it interferes with where I want the arms, so I think i'll connect the halves together with box tubing. The "fenders" will get 1/4 inch rod bracing around the inside of the perimeter, I have two more for the rear.

[SYCARMS]

I like the fenders.

TOM

[speedshopmike]

you Hookered your flange?!?
oh, irony, why must you afflict the Men Of Poncho so horribly?
in my first 2nd gen about 25 years ago, a 73 4 speed brewster green TA, the 2 bottom primaries on both sides were smashed totally flat (hookers) - it still ran a 12.9!

[x-bird]

I've left my share of header flange grooves on the rollers in the roads over the years--this shot was low speed turning into a parking lot. went over a sidewalk and grate, which had a deep pothole hidden behind the concrete box of the sewer drain. Just about stopped the car and bounced me off the steering wheel. Gotta pull the system (just finished this version earlier in the spring-- 3rd or 4th system i've had under it) to fix the leak and straighten the pipes--2-in hooker SCs. Of course, i ran my acetylene tank out working on the buggy last week ... On the bright side of the day, I did fix the frame crack on the Yerf today in all of 10 minutes ...

[x-bird]

Got to working on my control arms. Don't have a tubing bender, so they're sectional, Don't have a band saw, chop saw, hole saw jig etc. so coming up with some fixtures took a little head scratching and the better part of yesterday to get a procution procedure working smoothly. (disc/belt sander and table saw, air compressor/tools) I used the tape around the tube method to get 90 degree increments scribed down the length of the tubes so the mitres on either end are on the same plane. The block holds the tube, and lets me scribe the mitre, used a cut-off tool to chop it, then I use the block again and its mitred face to run the tube against the disc sander. Wish i had a welding table lol. made sure a remnant of countertop was flat in all direction, then jigged it all up and spot welded it. came out good and square, finished welding it up and it's presently cooling in the oven --wife is over a friend's while i stink up the kitchen ... still have to fish mouth the ends and add the axle tube. 3 to go ....

[metalstudman1]

It looks good-and sectional is only more work than a bend!!My bender won't bend that tight of a radius anyways. Why is it cooling in the oven?

[SYCARMS]

Yes my thoughts exactly why in the oven? Looks good though, nice improvise.
TOM

[speedshopmike]

for stress relief, both of the welded metal and from pissing off the wife.

[metalstudman1]

IMO-I've been welding Chromoly for years with a Mig and never had an issue by just air cooling.You do what you think is appropriate for stress relieving.I just add gussets to spread out the weld area on items that will be under great strain or likelyhood of extreme abuse.A mig may be hotter than tig but not to the degree that stress relief is neccessary or needed for what you're building. I've built many a dirt track car,sprint cars and 1/4 milers with zero failure on or around mig welded chromoly tube.

[x-bird]

If I can, I like to "play it safe" even if it's only by a marginal bit. If i had a metal table, I'd use the oxy/acetylene torch and fully bring it up to temp before welding and bring it back down. However, I'm limited to using a propane torch and the oven for as much of an even heating/cooling cycle that I can get. It's pretty chillly around here and I keep the garage opened up, so air cooling it would almost be like popping it in the refrigerator. I've read both schools of thought on how to treat cro-mo and for what instances and am more along with your school of thought with it. I use er70s-6 wire for all my metal work and don't have any real worries about it. I use a older millermatic 135 with the 4-click heat settings and find that "2" is giving the best result, which is a little on the hotter side than I wanted. (Miller says I can't retrofit my machine with an non-click incremental heat adjustment pot.) I am going to put a plate gusset to fill the top area down into the main tubes. I intend to drill out and install threaded lugs for heim joints at the ends for the spindle mounts and figure that as hard as I thrash things, a gusset might be needed.

[metalstudman1]

I respect your approach! As it turns out I'm ordering parts for my wife's Spiderbox and completely re-doing her A-arms. Different power plant brings more aggressive driving!!!(she finally broke one of the "unbreakable" ball joints from BD, they lasted 3 years) I'm planning on heims at both ends to eliminate the bushings,sleeve & long bolt @ the bulkhead.Your A-arms look well built and should take "ANY" & all thrashing with "NO" problem!Your new A-arms are leaps and bounds stronger than stock now.

[x-bird]

playing around with helmet cam today ... the video I shot with it isn't worth tubing , bad angle ...but on "lap" two there's a large black object on the ground in one of the turns ...oh, hello fuel tank .... sputters and stalls right next to it. )))) crack on the rear frame tube opened back up again, gonna have to do some beef up work back there ....

[speedshopmike]

would one of you fine lads confirm our old yerfs use #40 chain please?

[metalstudman1]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

would one of you fine lads confirm our old yerfs use #40 chain please?

My spiderbox is #530 don't remember if the 3200's is #530/520 or #420

[metalstudman1]

x-bird- I have a video of me jumping one of our 12' hills several times and when I viewed the video I noticed my tank was missing after the second of 4 jumps!!!!! I have 3'+ of fuel line that's why I didn't run out of fuel,I go back to the top of the hill and in the brush is my bright green tank!!!!!

[x-bird]

Decided to pull the rear frame off yesterday morning to fix the crack that re-opened. ....of course, found more problems

the driver's side corner of the frame is bent down from both directions, (cracks through the frame tube on both sides of the driver's side axle mount) fixing it across the back was pretty simple with an added piece of tubing. reinforcing the frame along it's length is a whole other can of worms .... the brake set-up is in the way of adding an additional tube below the existing one, so I'm considering drilling a run of holes along the top of the tube, inserting the piece of rod in the picture and welding it to the tube, it's a narrower diameter than the frame tube, so it would provide some additional strength, but nowhere near as much as I'd like. About the only other "method" at my disposal is to take more of the square tubing, cut out one side of it to create "c" channel and weld that over the frame tubing right in line with the axle bracket that's welded to the tube. If the brake setup wasn't in the way, i would just run tubing under both sides and connect it to the square tube that I added. suggestions welcome! Meantime, port-a-power rig is getting set up in the basement to bend the frame back into shape ...

[speedshopmike]

this is why i decided not to bush mine as i'd intended and you executed already.
without the slop of the factory hinges the swingarm assembly will likely keep cracking.
i thought up a good way to let it articulate over uneven bumps; i think it'll both work well and be durable.
i'll share the idea if interested

[x-bird]

Always interested in ideas; I figure this rear platform only needs to last until I decide on an IRS with a motorycyle based powerplant. I think most of the damage was already done when I bought it, just took some thrashing for it to really show up. haven't put much more than 45 minutes to an hour of total ride time on it. I've got some old H.O. Racing red swaybar and upper control arm bushings, you could always go that route. Have something with some give to absorb some of the abuse yet no actual slop.

[speedshopmike]

funny, i sold HO stuff in my shop for years, and that you should mention control arm bushings; i was thinking along the same lines for a while.
here's my end game plan:
picture 2 tubular control arms, but with a smaller tube greased and slid into the (outer tube) arm, which'll have a zerk or two installed.
the inner tube carries the front mount, a simple hinge along the lines of what you did but wider to obviate the need for a lateral locating link.
the outer tube carries lower shock mounts like now.
it also carries a bracket to provide a flat mount for the stock pillow block bearings from the existing swingarm to hold the axle, just like now.
the outer tube's ability to spin on the inner tube will allow the arms to move independently from each other w/o binding, providing the axle articulation we need.
then we do a like arm on the front of the motor plate whereby it also hinges and rotates.
float the rear portion of the motor plate on it's own pillow blocks on the axle, causing the engine plate to match the axle's movement, keeping the sprockets aligned.
net result, i believe, will be a legit live axle that should keep both tires planted and improve ride quality.
i'm expecting stiffer springs will be needed vs the oem config since both shocks will share less common bump load.
am i missing anything you can think of?

[metalstudman1]

I understand the concept- what keeps the engine from flopping over when a hard turn applies kentic energy to the heavier mass? The reason a sprint car uses a Jacobs ladder or a Panhard bar is to keep all the moving articulating components tied together. I think you'd need a strut or something similar. On that theory- wouldn't a Heim @ the swingarm hinge point do a similar action?

[speedshopmike]

engine's bolted to the motor plate, plate's fixed to the axle via it's own blocks & bearings.
it'll always stay at the same relative angle as the axle.
i don't plan on heims because good, large ones are $ even at shop cost and they never stay quiet, but really because if front mounted wouldn't give any lateral support, requiring a 3rd link i'd rather avoid.
ideally i'd buy huge ones and press axle bearings into them to use in back but it's not in the cards and monster size ones are bigbig money.
this is all about cheap/free for me.
i think wide, gusseted-at-tube front mounts will provide adequate lateral location given how light the yerf is.
if not i'll use a drag-style diagonal link to locate it.
i know precisely zilch about sprint cars as i never deal with them (but i do know they're fully badass), but in my street/roadrace/dragrace world a panhard bar does two things: sets roll center height and locates a stick axle laterally.
on no setup i've ever seen has one been used to tie other components together for structural purposes.
you got a pic of that sprintcar setup?
i love seeing new (to me) designs.

[metalstudman1]

You've got it right-maybe I'm not picturing it correctly. Here's the link to one of my other home-built's http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=815
I think somewhere near the top is some pic's of the rear axle articulation.

[x-bird]

ssm-- i think i have about 60 percent of your setup visualized, and get the basic theory of it. Both yours and metal's make me think I'm missign something in my own thinking. What I had in mind was the engine/trans and sprocket all fixed to the primary framework, non floating/pivoting etc. a pair of "y" arms off the rear (they'd be more like an upside down "h" and would use the existing rear frame mount i have by adding another pair of square tube extensions with the bronze bearings at center and then sliding a 3/4 tube or rod through both arm sets. the arms would be 2 to 3 inch diameter on the straight leg portions (possibly 1 at the pivots worked up to 2 then ovalized for most of the straight length to resist the twist) and house an axle carrier hub. Universal joints on one side of the halfshafts would be attached to a stub shaft through going through some type of block/bearing mount on either side ofthe sprocket and go to the carrier bearing at the end of the arm. Range of motion would only be the arc of the arm from the rear frame pivot, it'd have the shock mounted on top and going up to a point around the outside edge of the rear seats. I don't think there would be a stiction issue caused by an arc of travel versus true vertical with a sliding halfshaft with universals on either end.

[speedshopmike]

msm, i'm 1/2 way thru your other thread now; sweet little track in your backyard!

looking at the pics of what you did in back, we're right on the same page, but it appears your sprocket would be twisting out of align w/ the front as the rear articulates?
does the long chain run tolerate the movement or am i missing something?
i'm having trouble figuring out your 3rd link arrangement; one part looks like a typical short-track j-bar/panhard but i cant figure out the rest from the pic i'm looking at.
is half in front and half behind?

x-bird, i don't see any problem with what you're proposing; it seems to be what the higher-end factory IRS buggies do, and makes sense to me.
your setup will reduce unsprung weight by not carrying the motor plus not have camber change like a stick axle does when it artics a lot.
only downsides i see are more stuff to break and if you come off a jump tilted only one side of the suspension will eat most of the initial hit (see more stuff to break part above)

[x-bird]

BTW, went "industrial" on the rear frame this morning and did the c-channel job on the driver's side. drilled a series of holes on all sides of the c-channel, spot welded it to the tube and then welded down the length on the open side of the c.

Anyone have an ideas as to how much of an improvement powerwise a 9 hp robin would be? 2.5 hp, lol ... I can get one with with converter--very minimal run time for 400. Just curious as to what type of powerband it has. I'm surprised with the tecumseh, drove it up a 45-50 degree freshly-cleared-of-scrub-woods-rocky-hillside the other day and not a slip (15-20 foot elevation gain over 40-50 foot distance). what's that ...the manual says that's not allowed??? uh oh ... ))))

[speedshopmike]

the little info i can find on the robins says they're OHC motors that are nearly indestructible but little aftermarket upgrade support.
is the other tc a comet 40 type deal?
if so, money wise, it sounds like a major bargain.
power wise, looking at it in percentages, which is the only objective thing to do, it's a very significant gain.
i drove my next door neighbor's 11HP (honda) kart the other day after doing some work on it for him; it's *quite* a bit snappier than my yerf w/ the fresh clone and night & day ahead of it when it had the worn-out tec still pushing it.
just like in our 2nd-gen lead sleds, it's all about torque, not HP.

[metalstudman1]

[QUOTE=speedshopmike;17247]msm, i'm 1/2 way thru your other thread now; sweet little track in your backyard!

looking at the pics of what you did in back, we're right on the same page, but it appears your sprocket would be twisting out of align w/ the front as the rear articulates?
does the long chain run tolerate the movement or am i missing something?
i'm having trouble figuring out your 3rd link arrangement; one part looks like a typical short-track j-bar/panhard but i cant figure out the rest from the pic i'm looking at.
is half in front and half behind?

4-link set-up, 2 long forward,2-rear, 5th link is the Jacobs ladder (passenger side inside the frame, looks like a triangle with 2 trailing arms)that keeps the axle in line and allows atriculation and straight up & down movement.Yes the sprocket tilts with the axle & yes the chain has plenty of length to follow the arc. If you go to my Youtube site ( http://www.youtube.com/user/metalstudman1?feature=mhee )there are several vid's of this kart/buggy in action.It's my favorite to drive-I haven't been able to tip it on 2 wheels yet!!! it turns VERY sharp through our trails.

[speedshopmike]

do you have a side-view of that setup i could look at, msm?
thank you

[metalstudman1]

I'll have to go take some pic's- I broke it again this afternoon out jumping!!!!

[x-bird]

Rainy day today, (i run an outdoor rec biz, so no worky today) spent most of last night reassembling (how many times can i put the damn axle in the wrong way or pinch the chain .... LOL) the rear end and putting the engine/convertor back on. But can I leave well enough alone? So I started with a gasket match on the intake ... followed by a port job on the carb side of the intake pipe ... pretty ugly machine tool meeting point at the short turn, so i smoothed that out nice. i'll post pics in awhile ... Since the muffler had no gasket --- did it ever have one? and showed a lot of carbon outside its mounting point, i made a header tube. With all that done, I mounted the rear frame and fired it up with the tires in the air. fired right up, but was running around 1/2 throttle definitely seems like a lot more "there" when revved --or it may just be the sound from the stub tube header. i think i had the short link between the gov arm and throttle blade plate in the wrong hole, so i moved that, idle is a bit too low and the throttle doesn't seem to do anything. I'm wondering if porting it hasn't opened up the flow beyond its jetting ... taking a break, soaked from messing with the linkages/springs. Would love to run it today in the slop, but i'm waiting on a brake band, had metal on metal going on under there ....

[x-bird]

Ok, think i've got it pretty well knocked. I think having the rear frame in a dropped position was giving me fits with the float level. Getting the idle set with the wheels in the air and no resistance also had me going to low with it and stalling. Apparently the rearmost air filter base plate screw also seals a passage for the primer bulb, wouldn't squirt til i put it back on. Uhhhmmm, word of caution ...don't test drive a kart while forgetting the brake band is sitting on the workbench .... One thing i'm noticing, i can't get full throttle out of it with the cable/pedal assembly connected. probably getting it to about 75-80 percent of the travel of the carb throttle blade plate. i keep playing with the cable setting both at the engine and under the seat, but it seems like i can't get the full range of throttle travel out of it ....

[speedshopmike]

yep, mine had no brake till very recently.
that got interesting.
i know the butterfly opening is restricted by the linkage tab to about 75%.
bend it then trim at a 45 degree angle so it opens fully but also meets the idle speed screw.
i just hung the new rear shocks, went inside for a minute, came out, it's pouring like i should build an ark.
god loves laughing at me.

[speedshopmike]

oh, also, you're probably lean now from the header.
get some pindrills and open the jet one size at a time till it's happy

[x-bird]

I did bend the tab a bit, but it's more of a mechanical issue--i can't get the metal throttle arms that are mounted vertically to have enough range of motion using the gas pedal to go from idle to fully open. I also had to bend the end of the one arm on the right that the paperclip style spring attaches to (the one that interlinks with the spring that goes into holes 1 through 5 mines in "1") just to get it to come up into a range where the gas pedal got some movement into the arms. I'm just wondering if I bent something moving the engine around etc. BTW, what state are you in? Been raining off and on all day. threw the worn out brake band on and got sloppy. if this thing even got 15 percent more throttle, it'd be flying. right now it seems like it has more snap at low rev and is maybe 2-3 mph down on top speed.

[speedshopmike]

if any of the bits off my old motor will help you're welcome to 'em.
(i mangled the paper clip and springs though)
maryland, right under ya

[x-bird]

Nothing like a prefeshunal hydrolock press man I love my old blackhawk Porta-a-power ....

the yerf is gaining weight in its old age .....

she's breaking up ....


Fuuuuguuully but functional. the open side is on the bottom, welded to the original bar fully down both side ...did the same thing in front of the mount bracket

should've gone to manual focus and gotten inside view better. there was a really sharp, abrupt angle at the inside short turn radius. I can stick my a finger in past the knuckle now ...

ran it with just this little stub earlier ...melted a glove working on the carb linkages ...

and the wife always told me to get rid of my old parts eeenie meenie minie moe ...which mountain bike neck will be the first to go ...

got bored and stared at those bias cuts for too long ...shame of it is, i had this in mind and after cutting, I realized I could've easily done a mini version of the 77-81 splitter tailpipe, but there wasn't enough left so I welded it up no idea what it's going to sound like or if it is an improvement ...

[speedshopmike]

pipe still looks nifty anyway.
why not run a couple lateral bars tween the motor plate and sides of the swingarm?

[speedshopmike]

this might be helpful for your new front end buildup:

http://www.racingaspirations.com/?p=...hx=450&bhy=212

[x-bird]

thanks mike, i just started cutting tube again this morning to finish the other 3 arms. I was going to ask around here if anyone had any idea how to determine arm distance from one another height wise. Once i have that i can make the spindles (have two hubs and rims now) and work up the box section for the arms to bolt into. That will also give me my shock length and position. Track is definitely going to be wider than stock (hey what can I say, i'm a wide track guy). Thinking about going with 18x8x8 tires up front (would actually like them a bit narrower than that, but there doesn't seem to be anything available.

[speedshopmike]

YW; i know of more if that's not helpful enough

[x-bird]

If you know of one that allows for spindle/kingpin, axle and wheel center points to be added to the mix, that'd be great. otherwise this one worked well enough for me. I'm probably going to have about 1/2 to 1 inch height variation from frame mounts to spindle mounts. distance is going to be about 6 inches. As far as the shock goes, I'm going to make a fixed location between the two arms on the lower and will set the upper mount point with a large range of adjustment. Will probably used a hardened clevis pin with a quick release clip on the uppers.

[x-bird]

future powerplant ...
http://www.kawpowr.com/engines/detai...?id=6&cat_id=1

I have a slightly earlier version of the 750D, came from my scag turf tiger II. Something went, and it decided to rev to the moon and locked up before I even knew what was happening. cost nearly 3 grand for a replacement and the original has been sitting in the maintenance shop corner for a couple years. I'm figuring it spun the main or rod bearings. The case didn't split anywhere, no loud noise like it busted a rod. Decided to bring it home today and add yet another project to my pile. If it's salvageable, i'm thinking of hooking it up to a polaris or other type of automatic atv trans. May need to rethink the yerf and build it "down" for my daughter and build something up around this.

[jetasen74]

this is what i came up with.the distance is 6 inches center to center. hope this helps and good luck. yours looks great!

[speedshopmike]

is it a plain-bearing motor, jim?
that should haul you up some major hills.
not gonna use the subie from your bro?
i might want it and cvt....

[x-bird]

are those cut off strut shafts on the spindles? I've gotta a couple really beefy ones from my old corolla diesel, been thinking the chroming on them would make for a nice axle surface.

[x-bird]

if i pass on the robin, i'll let you know--i'll also check and see if he intends to CL it. I won't have funds til spring for something like that and he may need the money. I want to get inside this kawasaki and see if it's worth working with. (stuck on it at the moment, have a thread going in the over 250 cc thread---can't get the durn cover off! lol) Got some old favors due at a couple machine shops i can call in if it jsut needs a hone and crank polish... really beginning to think the 3203 is just too small for much more than the robin. Already starting thinking about widening it so i can put a pair of real seats in, along with a new frame tube support structure ...at which point my brain begins to say ... ok just what are you trying to make and is this the way to go about it ....

[jetasen74]

Originally Posted by x-bird

are those cut off strut shafts on the spindles? I've gotta a couple really beefy ones from my old corolla diesel, been thinking the chroming on them would make for a nice axle surface.

they are shoulder bolts from an old carrier system in a hospital.had sevral layin around so i thought i would put them to use

[x-bird]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

is it a plain-bearing motor, jim?
that should haul you up some major hills.
not gonna use the subie from your bro?
i might want it and cvt....

Managed to locate a blown-up parts drawing of the crank case and crankshaft assembly. It is a plain bearing set-up. Having never done small engine internals before, I had no idea what to expect. I figured it had saddles/bearings and caps internally. Looks like my issue is the crank bearing is seized on the shaft and press fit in the case side. gonna try a little heat. (propane torch). I that doesn't do it, I'm going to try and work up a puller rig.

[SYCARMS]

You will need a puller, I would not use heat.
TOM

[x-bird]

Created a puller--between the bearing and support in the case I had about 3 inches of surface contact area to move off. Tedious, but it's off cleanly with no damage. Governor gear blew apart (nylon) All of the other gears are in good shape, 1 gov. weight is MIA, but it may have hit the floor at some point during the removal process. cam lobes look to be in great shape, as does the bore--no scuffing, still have a decent cross hatch pattern. The binding was in the cover-side main bearing and case support portion. there is some minor galling on the crank, one scratch about 3/4 around. the damaged area corresponds to the case support area. the main bearing is in nice shape, as is the crank in that area. The case support is galled and is likely where it was really locked up at. some junk must've gotten in, i found the arm from the missing weight, but the pin, weight and some of the nylon was definitely thrashing around in there. Now I need to figure out if i can just emery polish the crank, have someone fine hone the support and pop in a new governor. If i can get away with that level of work and not have to pop 300 on a cover, the Yerf-asaki will begin to take shape. Pics of the above junk will show up later ...

[speedshopmike]

doesn't sound too bad at all, congrats.
gonna leave the governor out?
it can't break if it ain't there....
a v-twin yerf would be way cool!

[speedshopmike]

wait just a cotton-pickin minute here!
did you just publicly admit you had a diesel Corolla??
your SD must seem so slow by comparison.

[x-bird]

LOL yes, and I tell you what, that 84 corolla hatch --next year it was the chevy nova ))))))))))))))) was still running strong with 250k miles on it, had beefier struts and brakes on it than std. corolla ---auctioned it off and in the winters i still regret not having it. I'd put hakkepelita snows on it and with the diesel, it'd pull through anything. In the late 80s it was the course sweep car for the SCCA pro rally series races that ran at tiadaghton and wellsboro I'd follow the tail of the racers making sure there were no unknown "offs".

back on topic- ---dang train wrecks ))) gonna send some pics of the crank and bearing support area to Martyn Motors to see what they think.

BTW. we did some digging with a backhoe smack dab in then middle of my favorite corner of my track, just semi-fixed that. First run with good traction since the intake and exhaust tweaks, it's definitely faster--i'd say 3-5 mph more up top. Even rolled it in the woods. Up on 2 in a downhill off camber I normally just tail slide around on the gas, steering out of it and the tire in the air clipped a 3-inch stump and flipped me into a log/brush pile. the thought of me with a 27hp kawa in this little thing scares me a hell of a lot more than flat out in a blinding dust trail with the diesel on dirt at STPR!

[x-bird]

a look at the heads and the bores ...typical high mileage carbon, but nothing unusual. valves all are nice and free, seats look good. just need to clean them up. IIRC, this thing had about 13 to 1800 hours (it's an '01 and blew up in the spring of '09) on it when it went kablammo!


Yes, i now have yet another puller for the collection ... Can you ID the parts (3-bolt clamp/hanger for 7/16 aircraft cable held together with 2 pontiac upper control arm bolts, two soda machine safety lock plates--they cover the normal lockset, a variety of large wwashers and spacers underneath include 2 upper control arm bushing shells--glad i redid the bird's suspension this spring ) It took quite a while (about 1.5 hours including setup) of running down the two bolts, taking it apart, stacking in another washer, resetting and running it down again to move this thing all of a couple inches.

the culprit, one grenaded governor ... all the missing bits have been found, a few fell out while working on getting the cover off.

The bearing itself is fine, no scratches or unusual wear patterns etc. i reversed the cover and slid it on the crank to test, and all seems normal, smooth like buttah. The inner portion, which I think should have ample clearance and no contact with the crank, is a mess. something--either nylon or a bit of metal got in between and locked it up.

on the crank, again the bearing surface area is fine, the damage is where the case portion is. I'm thinking a light polish, a good clean-up of the case and i'm back in business with this.
I learned one lesson the hard way--there's no need to undo the waterpump portions of the case. Used the deadblow to pop them loose to make sure the "hang-up" wasn't in there ... Now i have to pop the impeller---which looks like a delicate, PITA job--- to reseal that case level along with the outer case that covers it.

On the needs list now are head gaskets, new wiring harness (homemade), torque specs for the case and head bolts, good carb cleaning and a linkage set-up as i had to rob this one for my new engine.

So sadly, I could've saved this engine, but for our business, the scag can't be down for a week, at the time, I had no time to deal with a teardown and figured the damage was far worse, this thing revved off the charts it seemed.

So, do I
A:fix this,sell it for a decent buck and use that for the Robin and call her done,

B;keep it and create a ground bound woods yerf-asaki rocket that'll likely mimic steve austin's eventful return to earth,

C; keep it and call the yerf done with a throttle limit and pedal mods for my daughter and put some money into a big pile of tubing to build something from ground up?

I know what's the easy choice, the wise choice, and the fun choice but how in the hell to pick ????

[speedshopmike]

selection B, please, yerfasaki all day long.
it'd be fully badass but still livable for a "daily driver", methinks.
put some big gnarly, tall tires on it; you'll have plenty o' torque to pull the height and scare yourself pisspanted up top.
plus it'll sound cool and you can run duals w/ splitters.

[speedshopmike]

just saw your post above the last one.
all ok from the rollover?
how'd the dog do upside down?
that's a nice gain up top you got; you're probably on the governor at this point.
wish you were closer so's we could have a little dog eat dog and SD vs HO showdown.
that'd be a fun day!

[x-bird]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

selection B, please, yerfasaki all day long.
it'd be fully badass but still livable for a "daily driver", methinks.
put some big gnarly, tall tires on it; you'll have plenty o' torque to pull the height and scare yourself pisspanted up top.
plus it'll sound cool and you can run duals w/ splitters.

Well, after a lot of thought, I decided not to do the above, as much as I'd like to. Instead, I'm going to get this engine back together and running and shelve it.

Meantime the yerf is going to get a second set of "quick release" pedals installed for my little one to use (adjustable throttle stop on the gas so I can let her have more as time goes by. When i want to drive it, i'll just pop the clevis pins out so my calves don't hit the pedals. I'm also going to make a new set of spindles for it as I cracked the gusset underneath on one during the roll yesterday--it hit a log in the pile. Only went on its side, a chopped off poplar trunk was about 6 inches from my chest when i came to a stop--went into the pile pretty much fully sliding on the side.

as for the kawasaki, i'm starting to look out for wrecked midgets--should be a few around here with all the dirt tracks we have--if i can score a stripped one for $200 or less, i'm in business. I made the choice based on the fact that to mount the engine, buy a trans, build a rear suspension to handle it, widen the body (the stock bench is beating me up too much and my neck is getting fubared from my helmet hitting the roll bar.) make a taller roll hoop and make a new front suspension, I'm literally building a bigger buggy around the yerf with way too many structural compromises. It got to the point that I was thinking about building a ladder frame front to rear and welding C-channels on it to drop the yerf chassis into. by the time I did that, so little was actually useful--the floorpans lol) that the answer was simple. build a new one for the same cost/effort. if this was an 06 or 09, different story. Instead I'm either going to cut up something like an old chassis (even and odyssey or 06-09 yerf) or build one from scratch. I've got basically all the front end parts and design done. the rear irs idea I have is exactly (so exactly laid out that it's spooky) like the design used by these guys in their buggy plans--

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Forward-Neut...item3cbde72daf

The end result is that I end up with something my daughter can safely use for years to come with no extra cost--and that I can still tool around in the meantime, and a project I can work on over the winter that'll allow my daughter, my wife and I all to share in the fun.

[speedshopmike]

that sounds like a winner to me...gotta agree, if the yerf's too small for you than no point in going down that road.
(fyi, you can fix that sore neck thing by deleting your helmet - brains are overrated anyway).
i'll sell you all my (never used, unmolested) sandrail/buggy stuff REAL cheap if you're interested - save mucho work fabbing the tubeframe....

[x-bird]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

that sounds like a winner to me...gotta agree, if the yerf's too small for you than no point in going down that road.
(fyi, you can fix that sore neck thing by deleting your helmet - brains are overrated anyway).
i'll sell you all my (never used, unmolested) sandrail/buggy stuff REAL cheap if you're interested - save mucho work fabbing the tubeframe....

without the helmet, despite the padding on the bar, it's a little painful after a few hits .... i've got tinnitus, the helmet helps prevent the dreaded ringing from starting and saves my noggin from that bar above me. I'm not that tall, 5-6" but have a longer torso so the helmet is into the padding just sitting there, a few sideways hits and the neck can't take it. Back in the day, i could run on a road course all day and not have any issues, these days, the weight of the helmet getting smacked sideways is gonna cripple me. sucks getting old without enough good exercise--back breaking labor doesn't count.

[speedshopmike]

i've only got an inch on you and also am built like an ape.
i haven't even nudged my head into the cage yet with the seat belt on.
you must be going way more nuts than i have yet while driving.
good work!
real shocks will be your best friend.

[x-bird]

My "woods" area (about 1/3 of an acre) is actually nothing more than an appalachian ridge outcropping with trees on it. We found that out the other day with a backhoe. it's a 20-foot high pimple in the middle of what was once mostly farmland. kept telling my dad it was natural rock, but he was led to believe that most of it was fill from the road being put in 60-70 years ago. It's 2-5 foot of limestone with granite bedrock underneath. the more i ride/rut it, the rougher and rockier it gets--not much topsoil on the rock.

Meantime, i'm still working on the 750, polished the crank and dremeled (roll sander) the case cover where it locked up on the journal. got everything cleaned up inside and finished cleaning one chamber. still have to do the other head and finish wire wheel (drill and dremel) cleaning the outside of the engine. I hate assembling dirty parts. Reattached and form-a-gasketed the two water pump covers to the main cover. With the cover back on, crank turns nicely. After that i just need head gaskets and an oil seal for the cover and I'll be ready to rig it for a test run. Anyone ever use copper "spray a gasket" on used gaskets? The head gaskets have a steel ring for the top of the bore that's fine, but they left some of the grey material on the block and heads. at $25 per gasket, i'm thinking about giving it a try. I use the stuff quite a bit and like it. It'
It's good for old exhaust manifolds that are pitted.

[speedshopmike]

i always spray steel shim gaskets with copper but have never used it on a composition gasket...good question.

[SYCARMS]

I have used it on metal but never have I had any luck on composite. It may work at first but eventually you will in short time be replacing a blown head gasket.

TOM

[x-bird]

I'm going to give it a try. Right now they'll just have to hold up for an initial start up and run on the stand. The engine won't be in use for a long time, so I can replace them when the time comes to install it. At this point I just am verifying that this thing will run with the components i have with it. (voltage regulator, starter etc.) I cut up the carb linkage mounting bracket awhile back for one of my other mowers and am sorely regretting that move now--pretty sure i can repair it. lol Completed the first reassembly and am going to tear it back down again, (sort of doing a familiarization build) still have to clean the oil pump gears and pickup and need an oil seal and filter for it. The replacement engine came complete from starter to radiator, so I have all the ancillaries, had to butcher the wiring harness--it had issues anyway -- and the belt-drive fan is most likely going to get replaced with an electric and be mounted up on the cage somewhere.

[speedshopmike]

i agree - nothing to lose.
if you wind up needing to buy new you're no worse off then before.

[x-bird]

decided to refocus on the yerf and not spend another night scrubbing the kawasaki (damn thing is getting pretty shiny for a chunk of aluminum ...

So after thrashing the crap out of it --opened up another couple of turns in the woods and beating the hell out of myself in the process-- I decided to take the day off and do something about the fenders --- getting too much metal piling up in the the garage corners.

I've also been trying to get a good camera angle or mount. Using the cheap, low res helmet cam either gave me my feet and the ground right at the front tires, or an awesome view of the roll bar and not much else. I finally got it with a pile of memory foam mattress on the seat --the vid below is shot with the helmet cam. Battery in my JVC died after 5 seconds of runtime. Will shoot it again with that set on a wide angle view. Sound will be better quality too so mike, you can hear the not so clanky yerf. Squealing in the video is the brakes, the drum was pretty grooved when i put the new band on, need to smooth it down on the belt sander ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXtri3PE7mE

So back to not making money working and making fenders instead ...
After coming up with a really nicely over-thought and complicated flange, brackets, rods & frame assembly to mount them on I said what the heck am I doing, weld a couple tubes to it and be done with her!

So for your viewing pleasure, here's what you can do with some old Ping golf club racks ... The holes from the rack base portion on the rear fenders got double-stick taped then a piece of the mystery plastic riveted on the underside that extends the fender to cover the inner wheel area. Then some bungie at the edges to stop the plastic from slapping the metal. Front fenders are the top "PING" display plaque from the rack. Still have two more racks to do another full set like these.

Now i just have to be careful in the corners that have trees --i have a bad habit of using them to pivot the cart with inside rear tire on them .... I made sure not to weld all the way around on the tubes, i'd rather they tore off than bend the frame portions they're mounted to. And if you notice the front alignment "issue" don't worry the BFW will be oh so delicately straightening the spindles before the next ride

[speedshopmike]

yours are neater than mine.
so now you must die.

[plumbingservices02]

The information and facts I gained from your site was outstanding . Thanks for the tips .

[x-bird]

Next item on the yerf agenda ... reverse drop spindles ...or riser spindles ... or what ever you want to call them. I'm going to pull the arms and create a new bracket and spindle setup to give about 2 more inches of front end clearance. Figure i will heat up and open the bracket top and bottom, widen it to have a 3/4 or 1 inch hole in it and do really long gussets down the arms to brace them. Also going to change the angle on it a bit to get rid of the positive camber at rest--because it will increase with the spindles, and extend the steering rod mounts upwards. It'll also have either bushings or bearings ... have enough old sealed bearings and some scrap to make it a no cost deal... The other end of the arm mounts need work too, i've bent both plates pretty good and the holes are getting really sloppy.

[jetasen74]

sounds like fun. i love building out of scrap!

[speedshopmike]

riser spindles are a good idea, me likee.
i've been pondering taller tires but 15" is it, so that only gains an inch or so of clearance; more'd be nice, your idea makes it much easier.
wanna build an extra set?

do you mean a .75 or 1" hole for a larger axle mount or for a larger kingpin?

[x-bird]

Larger kingpin, probably a .75 OD pin seeing as i have the appropriate 1" OD bronze bearings --- an employee ran my golf ball picker over with the pusher jeep a few years back and I don't throw anything away--the spindle tubes matching the bearings are coming from the remains of the picker arms too. I want bushings or bearing in the brackets for the kindpin, so i've gotta widen the bracket so I figure I might as well beef it up. This is a design using the originals, I could make extra spindles, but you'd have to modify the arm mounts.

Here's an easy game to play, here's and easy thing to say ...
turn your a-arms over, weld on new shock mounts and gain about an inch of clearance.
Sitting on the couch sketching spindle designs and checked the arms, it would work.

another easy gain is to make a new pair of plates for the inner end of the arms and have them mount in holes lower than the originals. Mine are so bashed in that i've gotta pull the arms, and take the torch to the plate to straighten them. Likewise at the rear, as i've hinted at before, mount a set of longer axle plates with the bearing cutout lower than original--would need braced a bit, but pretty simple and fast clearance gain.

For me all of these are zero-or 20 buck or less mods.

[speedshopmike]

i've been thinking for a few days about making plates w/ wider and lower holes; that or slugging and extending the arms.
i think(???) lengthening the arms is a better way to go because it'll gain travel and ground clearance plus ease the nasty camber curve...and will effectively soften the shocks, too.
whatcha think?

flipping the arms and shock mounts makes perfect sense and would be fast too.
great idea, jim, especially as an initial step for me bc it's so easy.
are the factory spindles set up 0 camber relative to arm axis?
do you know the ID of this tubing?

btw, i'd use bearings over bushings any day of the year

[x-bird]

I haven't checked exactly what (if any) angle the spindle sits on the arm, once i have them off it's just a matter of checking the center of the bracket holes in relation to the arm. These things likely run with 4-6 degrees of camber-changing slop from wear anyway.

I'd be leery of extending the arms--- personally i don't trust this tubing all that much. Mine have dings in the tops of them from hitting the tubes that the plates are mounted to. Longer arms means more bending force applied at that point of impact. That's one of the issues that got me to thinking about putting in a second set of plates and moving the holes down and out. It would eliminate the bottom out hits, widen the front track a bit and provide more clearance. extending arms would achieve the items you mentioned, but for what I subject this poor lil thing to, i don't know if it's worth risking. I'm sort of working on improving performance and durability and am throwing the compromised factor to the performance side.

when i say bushings or bearings, i'm actually meaning sealed bearings or solid bronze. regardless, anything is better than a bolt pivoting in a mild steel hole with nothing in between. As for the spindle, the mounting bracket and the spindle tube will both have bronze bearings--the bracket's will just be cut flush to the thickness of the bracket material ....

choice scrap find of the week --tripped over it buried in the brush by my little track.... a sawhorse made out of a I-beam that looks to be 1/4 thick steel and about 4 or 5 inches wide on the inside the beam. Got my bracket materiel Now what to do with the section of railroad track i found out there last year??? hmmm sneak weld it under a competitors cart or put it inside the firebird's bumper for traction ... oh crud ... bent headers ....

[x-bird]

Cleaning/reorganizing morning in the garage. Had to create room to move the yerf indoors. Trekking out at midnight in the cold to look at things with a flashlight is no fun! The MGA is glaring at it with envy for all the attention it's been getting.

[speedshopmike]

arm/spindle angular relationship will dictate if flipping them would work w/o moving the spindle bracket.
since i installed the thrust washers there's basically zero slop up front.

fwiw....either (or both) i'm driving like a ***** or the SC shocks are working well enough that i haven't yet bottomed out the front end; not even a ding on my arms.

i know what you meant about bearings/bushings - if you have them around already, i'd still choose bearings.
bushes will wear and soon as there's clearance they'll get noisy and wear progressively faster since crap will get in the gap and cause 'em to lap. (sincerely, Doctor Suess).

RR track makes a very nice dolly but i cant think of anything else it's good for....except to discipline the wife.

[speedshopmike]

oops

[x-bird]

Spent a few hours last night experimenting. There's a few issues that weigh against doing a riser type spindle. Foremost is that the arrangement will change the directional forces going over bigger or steep faced bumps into the arm from mostly upwards to an up and rearwards direction, I can see twisting the leading bar of the control arm under and backwards. One way to get around this is to make the spindle with the axle center below and forward of the arm. Of course this leads to the need to create a very strong spindle structurally. And it also introduces the problem of twisting the arm in the opposite manner when compressing heavy hits. I'm mulling over giving the kingpin a couple degrees of negative castor, camber also needs to go the opposite way, as there is a couple degrees built in from the factory (it appears that way, but my bracket mounts aren't even positioned the same, one is about 1/8 off center--factory misalignment, so these may have been designed at 90 degrees with a few degrees of variation from sloppy jigging.)

I flipped one arm and left the other normal to compare and get an idea of what really needs done. the shock is going to have to be repositioned, it looks like the lower mount needs to go closer to the spindle and the upper mount dropped lower and outwards. Otherwise it looks like there will be way to much load going to near the center of the arm if the lower mount is moved inwards to make it work--that and the angle of the shock overall just looks too "tight" relative to the arc the arm makes. The flip actually changes the arm angle a lot.

Before I can do anything, i've gotta get my acetylene tank filled, so i can do some heat and bend work to make some parts. dead in the water without the tank. and my I-beam won't work as the insides of the flats are not parallel, forgot about that. (((

[x-bird]

Sat down with Colin Campbell's suspension theory book during this morning's F1 race and figured a few things out ... the 9 degree incline of the front frame stub looks to be yerf's way of putting castor into the front end without having to angle match the a-arms to kingpin angles. Rather than do a riser, i'm dropping the pickup points lower, outward and moving them forward. So I'll end up with more ground clearance, a slightly longer wheelbase giving more room for bigger tires and a wider track for more stability. The rollcage on this thing-- isn't ---it's a brush guard and has no triangulation, so until that's addressed, anything to keep it on all four is welcome! BTW, spinning the top bar section 180 degrees gave me nearly two inches more headroom.

Really wasn't happy with any of the material I have to do something with the front end so I did some more digging today and finally made progess. Plan of action that I'm going to stick with is to get some big rubber up front. Tested a dry-rotted 20x7x8 tire on the golf cart rim, fits good and seems a good match size-wise to the rears. My mower spindles won't work as hubs, bolt centers are just a hair off, (must be 4 inch centers vs 110 mm) so i need to get some atv hubs, plenty around used with brake discs on them, so no worries there.

Spindles are going to get made out of cro mo tubing with bronze bearings. Finding something to make the mounting brackets for the spindles is an issue at the moment, so I moved to the other end of the arms. Today's score has gone a long way to getting me thinking I can make a durable front end with good suspension travel (even without the tire size increase, which will come later when $$s are available) using the stock arms. Pics below are from last night's comparisons and this morning's tire fiddling.

Flipping the arms won't work without redoing the brackets, kills the arm to frame clearance. meh--so much for easy games to play ... The one shot with it on the jackstand shows how far it has to come up just to put the shock back in place... just too much.

[x-bird]

And now for tonight's fun .... first one to post what this came from and is ---should be pretty easy --- gets a free lottery ticket ....
I call it the Yerf-dog muzzle , it's nothing real thick but will form the shell that I'll be building the arm mounts from--

I've got enough 1/4 plate to make a matching flat undertray that will get spot welded to the "muzzle" two more pieces of 1/4 will get welded to it and the undertray to form the 90's that the arm bolts pass through. some 2-inch square tube will brace it between the original original mounts and a pair of gussets will go back to the center tube of the frame.

Up top, I'm going to cap it, just cause it'll look kinda cool. The shock frame mounts will be moved to just ahead of the front bar junctions.

The steering linkage ...well, I'm sort of ignoring that pesky item at the moment . If i have to, i may shorten the steering wheel mounting arms and raise the other end of the shaft and move it forward to get back to the spindle with decent geometry. It may even go under the frame instead of over .... I may also add a really stiff bumper bar mounted on the front with some leftover urethane body bushings ... Anyway, she's officially off the dirt until the new arm mounts, spindles and brackets are done.

[Lyonsperf]

I scrapped the welded bolt and bushing idea for front spindles and bought spindle stubs and 4 on 4 hubs from surplus center. These are 1-1/4" dia steel stub axles used for building trailers. The hubs have tapered roller bearings and seals just like a car has.
I cut a hole through some 1-1/2 x 2 box tubing and welded the stub into it. Plated both ends of the box tube then welded 1/4" tabs to both ends for my heim joint mounts. Now I can run a 7" long 1/2" bolt through both heims and tabs with a tube spacer between to prevent flex.

waiting on some steel swedged tubing to extend my tie rod tubes then I will make the pitman arms.
Over all front track hub to hub with the spiderbox is 51" and I can fit a 20" tire no problem!

[x-bird]

Forgot to mention in my last post ... I don't know about the Spiderbox series of carts, but these 3203s apparently were assembled from "up top" only. None of the tubing welds are finished on the bottom. they just end with exposed, straight tubing butts, no fishmouth jointing or full welds. While i have it up in the air, that's another job to take care of. Just a little scary lol. ....

[jetasen74]

Originally Posted by x-bird

Forgot to mention in my last post ... I don't know about the Spiderbox series of carts, but these 3203s apparently were assembled from "up top" only. None of the tubing welds are finished on the bottom. they just end with exposed, straight tubing butts, no fishmouth jointing or full welds. While i have it up in the air, that's another job to take care of. Just a little scary lol. ....

ya i noticed that crap my self and wondered if someone just got lazy,but i guess thats how they do things over there. and i like that rack,did you build it?

[x-bird]

If by rack you mean the black box aka the "muzzle" no I didn't build it, i've dismantled it and am making it fit over the yerf's snout. Was staring me in the face up at work and it just came to me what to use it for. I guarantee everyone has seen these and a few of you have them. ))) In a way it's not necessary, but it gives me something to weld the horizontal and vertical mount plates to. Once that's done, i'll just clamp it on and weld it to the frame. that way all of my bolt holes etc can be done on the bench and welded up with no alignment worries and hassles of clamping them on the tubes by themselves

[jetasen74]

muzzle that dog and try not to let it bite you in da butt.