Slider Weights

[Xrims]

I reccently got a ASW Carbide buggy.It was fun for about an hour,then realized its not to fast.Have found some great mods to order thanx to this site.I am having trouble deciding what weight slider weights to put in it.The tracks we run are very curvy with short spans inbetween turns and minor jumps.So I need good speed with great burst power.

[BuggyMaster]

I can tell you from experience that in an American Sportworks machine, I like a 13 gram slider. I have had those and I have had 12grams but honestly, the 12's took too much top end away and the bottom end was no better than a 13 gram. I say go with the 13 gram slider. Other may chime in with educated opinions too.

[Xrims]

I ordered a GY6 CVT performance package level 4. I ordered the weights at 13 grams.Thanx for the input cant wait to get it gonna be SYC! WooHoo

[BuggyMaster]

Very cool. What all is in that package?

[Xrims]

It comes with,Dr. Pulley Hit clutch, Dr. Pulley racing variator, Yellow main clutch spring, and 13 gram Dr. Pulley slider weights

[24evanwilson]

wow lets see the differences

[Xrims]

Im thinkin the best set up will be.The yellow 1500 main spring with the lowest rpm clutch springs the hit clutch comes with or should the main and clutch springs be the same rpm?

[BPNWMike]

The main and clutch arm springs serve different purposes and operate pretty much independent of one another.

I'm not sure if the 13g will give you everything you're looking for, but I'd be interested in the results. Really good low end is often found in the lighter (9-11g) weights, but as BuggyMaster pointed out - you may lose some top end.

Most people gain back the top end through ditching the stock airbox in favor of a UNI filter (like in the level 1 air performance package we have) and/or upgrading the exhaust. When changing the air/fuel system like this, you'll have to rejet the carburetor, but there are videos here and tutorials on my site, as well.

[24evanwilson]

i think 11-13 g

[Xrims]

Im gonna try 10 grams for now.Hopeing to polish port intake and exhaust ports to get my 3-4 mph back.

[BPNWMike]

Also, since you have multiple sized weights, it is possible to put in 3 of each (alternating them in the variator), and get some of the benefits of both sizes.

[Xrims]

If I run three 10 gram sliders and three 13 gram sliders.Will that give me a good low and high end or will it be like running six 11.5 sliders and wear them out quicker.

[BuggyMaster]

That's pretty neat. Never even thought about that.

Originally Posted by ****Mike

Also, since you have multiple sized weights, it is possible to put in 3 of each (alternating them in the variator), and get some of the benefits of both sizes.

[BPNWMike]

People with scooters do it all the time. They claim they kind of get some of the best of both worlds. Your mileage may vary, but it's worth testing to see how it goes.

I am certain that it won't cause them to wear out sooner.

[Xrims]

Well then Im game lets see what happens.

[kidnme]

Ya, you can alternate rollers.
We have a new dual angle ramp variator coming in, in a couple weeks that does just that but we went a step further!
Comes with 8,9,10 & 11 gram rollers. There are 2 ramps. One slight angle and one steep angle.
By putting in a lighter weight in the "L" ramp and a heavier weight in the "S" ramp, we can now get the low end we want and also add to the top end!
This variator also uses larger rollers than stock. That pushes the back plate more efficiantly.
When they come in, maybe we'll do a "Buggymasters" special.
I'll keep you all posted.

[Xrims]

That will be NICE!Just got the Dr. Pulley CVT Performance package.Put three 10 slider weights and three 13 slider weights in variator.A 1500 rpm main spring.Put 12kg clutch springs and 12.5 pillow springs in the hit clutch.It seems to rev to high in the lower gears.I can smell the rubber burn after a run,just dont like the high reving anyone have a good clutch pillow spring set up!

[24evanwilson]

ha ha cool!

[BPNWMike]

I need you to clarify a couple of things:

Lower gears?

What kind of rubber is burning? Tires? Belt? something else?

The pillow springs should always be a higher tension than the arm springs. The 12kg arm ones might be OK for you, but you might consider going to a higher tension pillow spring.

The 10g sliders will make your RPMs a bit higher sooner than the 13g will, but you're not really in danger of harming the motor. If your CDI has a rev limiter, you might be hitting that - but that's another issue. My engine runs up at 8600-8800rpms no problem.

You might try running the 13g sliders only, and then the 10g sliders only, just to see the difference (making sure they're set in the variator correctly each time... I'm always messing one up that I usually notice at the last minute!), then play with mixing the weights.

[Xrims]

Think the belt might be slipping alittle cant tell for sure but its the tires Im smelling.The pillow springs I got go from 12.5(came in the hit clutch)to the yellow 20kg the next lowest I have.Could go to a 14.5 black(came in the hit clutch)clutch spring and the 20 kg pillow spring not sure what that would do.Lower gears I mean when you take off it feels like a truck with a tow package on it and at about 18-20 mph it smooths out and you dont feel the pole of the tranny.

[Xrims]

Not sure Im understading the springs in the hit clutch right.The buggy runs great but the motor is reving so high and I dont feel it transfering to the wheels.Should you have to floor it to get it to move.Has great low and 43mph high end.Will only move with the trottle floored.(Drifts great)

[BPNWMike]

Lighter slider weights and heavier clutch springs both increase the stall rpms.

If you've got great low end and high end, then it seems like it's running pretty good.

Are you just concerned that the engine has to rev higher ("floored") to start moving? Typically, you should not have to floor it before getting any movement. Is this what is happening, or is it just higher RPMs than you're used to/expecting?

As I said before, you can try running all of one size weights in the variator and see the differences between them.

Going to heavier clutch arm springs will increase the rpms before you start to move as well. That's why I would recommend the lightest ARM springs on the clutch, with the medium or high PILLOW springs. This will give a lower stall speed, and still give you the benefits of the pillow mechanism (and is Dr Pulley's recommended setup for buggies.)

Keep us posted on what you find out.

[BuggyMaster]

That's why I like to use the factory tension for the clutch arm springs. When you guys say pillow springs, what are you referring to? I'm not familiar with the HIT clutch setup.

[BPNWMike]

The "pillow" mechanism is a secondary set of springs on the back (outer) side of the clutch. When the clutch spins above a certain RPM, the spring tension on these springs is overcome (just like the arm springs) allowing a secondary mechanism called a "pillow" to rotate into place and essentially LOCK the clutch arms to the bell.

As long as your rpms are high enough and your springs tuned correctly (pillow springs ALWAYS higher tension than the arm springs...) the HiT clutch should experience zero slippage under load. It's a very nice feature and works extremely well if you're set up correctly.

[BuggyMaster]

Those 10 sliders are too light.

[BPNWMike]

LOL, let's allow him to decide once he's had a chance to mix and match.

The way that you, and I, and random person X likes our buggies to run may not be the same (and probably isn't!)

If he has some stronger clutch arm springs installed, that will really raise the engagement rpms. It may be a combination of things leading to the high rpms at takeoff.

[bige]

if it reving that high then you might want to change those springs before the pads get to much wear from slipping

[24evanwilson]

ha ha you guys lol

[BuggyMaster]

I'm thinking those 10's are too light to get the driven up to speed to where it will engage.

[Xrims]

Ok took 4 different setups!But got it somewhat dialed in.Ran 12kg clutch spring with 20kg pillow spring.Used 10 gram and 13 gram slider weights(3 and 3)and one space washer on the variator and BAM a dirt porche!it digs trenches at take off and hits 42mph flat ground in under 1/2 block.Still a vibration prob in lower rpms.Still feels not quite right but an amazeing difference from stock.Tries to wheelie out of turns not really a wheelie but the front wheels arent on the ground good enough to turn.

[BPNWMike]

Now that's what I'm talking about!

[24evanwilson]

ya!!

[BuggyMaster]

we need vid

glad it worked out! Just a matter of tuning. great job.

[24evanwilson]

woooooo!

[Xrims]

Gonna shoot a video tommorrow! Gonna have the wife hold the camera in the passangers seat might lose the camera haha!Been talkin to my buddy at Bridges corvett and he told me in a month or so he can make me fiberglass panels to replace the metal sides on the Carbide and the front cover.Do you think that would weakin the frame it appears just to keep debree out.

[BuggyMaster]

still waiting for that vid!

Replacing those panels will not weaken it. They are more cosmetic.

[Xrims]

Sry my legs been bothering me been laided up will get them done not sure how to post video no u tube experience!

[roysheepdog]

wow 88000rpms i only get 46550.is that becouse of stock rollors?

[BPNWMike]

46550?

If you mean 6550, then that is about right with 13-14g stock rollers and (possibly) a rev limiter in the CDI.

[roysheepdog]

Originally Posted by ****Mike

46550?

If you mean 6550, then that is about right with 13-14g stock rollers and (possibly) a rev limiter in the CDI.

lol no i mean 4650 rpms

[BPNWMike]

That's pretty low - even for stock rollers. The real power band on these engines doesn't even kick in until about 5500 rpms...

[roysheepdog]

i thought it was low.ive got uni,re jet,cdi.muf.mod and shorter back tires.why do you think the rpms are so low?

[BPNWMike]

2 things: tach is wrong, or flat spots on the rollers not allowing them to engage fully.

The uni and muffler won't affect RPMs. An aftermarket CDI *should* remove any rev limiter - but if it has advanced timing it may throw off your tachometer - leading to #1 above. Tires should not affect rpms.

[roysheepdog]

Originally Posted by ****Mike

2 things: tach is wrong, or flat spots on the rollers not allowing them to engage fully.

The uni and muffler won't affect RPMs. An aftermarket CDI *should* remove any rev limiter - but if it has advanced timing it may throw off your tachometer - leading to #1 above. Tires should not affect rpms.

ive got the vapor trail tech computer it seems to right on every thing else.my cdi has no limeter.its your kit kart stage 2 i think dont rember.

[BPNWMike]

How do you have the wires hooked up for the tachometer function? I had to wrap it around the coil about 7-8 times before I could get a stable reading. Hooking it in directly to the coil wire spade didn't work for me at all - had to wrap it around the wire.

I'm using the purple CDI on mine.

Does it sound like your engine is revving up higher than 4500 RPMs? That is a really low number. When mine's running around 8k you can tell the engine is revving.

[roysheepdog]

Originally Posted by ****Mike

How do you have the wires hooked up for the tachometer function? I had to wrap it around the coil about 7-8 times before I could get a stable reading. Hooking it in directly to the coil wire spade didn't work for me at all - had to wrap it around the wire.

I'm using the purple CDI on mine.

Does it sound like your engine is revving up higher than 4500 RPMs? That is a really low number. When mine's running around 8k you can tell the engine is revving.

i have the wire wraped around the plug wire.i had it on the coil and tried it on the wire and it was the same so i left it.
my cdi is purple also
sound wise it sounds like the tach is right but its hard to tell.do most of them spin that fast?i have had NO rpms or mph gains from stock to now,but big power gains

[BPNWMike]

It's very curious.

I'd be interested in seeing whether the RPMs change (increase) if you went to lighter slider weights.

[roysheepdog]

Originally Posted by ****Mike

It's very curious.

I'd be interested in seeing whether the RPMs change (increase) if you went to lighter slider weights.

i was thinking that must be the prob.i dont know what weight it came with.

[BPNWMike]

Unfortunately the only way to tell is to actually weigh them. The manufacturer's have never been nice enough to actually MARK that information on the side!

[roysheepdog]

thanks for the help i think its the sliders.when i saw 8 grand on mikes buggy i had to say something.
sorry XRIMS i dident mean to hijack the thread