Newbie with spiderbox questions

[Cowboy76]

Hello everybody, I'm new to the buggy world. I just got my 1st buggy a yerf 3206. It has the typical front end issues, & 1 I don't think is common.


As you can see the bulkhead had the rack & pinion mount completly broken off. The previous owner said he had it welded (I didn't see much evidence), then he JB welded it ??? finally he put 2 bolts into the gusset. I have done some research & plan on "beefing" the bulk head, should I find a different bulk head to reinforce or just repair this one while reinforcing? I myself am not a welder, but have several friends who are.

My next question is, I have the "uneven A-arms" should I change to "even"? The knuckles seem fairly HD looking for any 1st or 2nd gen knuckles I've seen. Of course HD ball joints are on the way I ordered sum from a industrial supplier, and will make my own "washers" (tool maker by trade).

My last question (for now) is about the angle on the tie-rod should it be this steep?



My 1st goal is to make the buggy safe (bought as family toy "wink, wink").
Front end rebuild, new swing arm bushings & probably shocks all the way around, then engine/drive train tuning can begin. Mainly flat terrain, some trails, sometimes mud.

Thanks in advance.
Rex

[metalstudman1]

Welcome- the plate the rack is mounted to is repairable, re-enforcincing the bulkhead is simply adding another 1/8" plate at the bolt holes, so now real need to buy another bulkhead. Those are aftermarket ball joints. The angle on the tie-rod/steering arms are at the wrong angle with the current shocks you have. Before trying to fix this buy the shocks you want first, then see where you're at- angle-wise. Those spindles appear to have been beefed up - I like the 3rd gen. even spindle simply because they allow for easier modifications to the shock height, also they were much better/stronger built. Don't think the swingarm bushings are removable- I had to replace the whole end.

[GX150]

Those ball joints are aftermarket and not the originals - They may be fine. When you have uneven a-arms the top joints will bind quicker than the bottom ones. If you keep the same amount of travel it may not be an issue. If you go with different shocks that go beyond the range of the joints, it will not take long for them to tear themselves apart.

[Cowboy76]

I was look at the yerf today getting a plan goining. I have 0 down travel in the front I think mainly due to the shocks. Ive been looking for front shocks, I'm just not real sure what I'm looking for. Maybe some around 11 inches?

Does anyone know about what angle the rack & pinion mount should be at? I'm guessing the angle the broke mount is sitting at could have a lot to do with the steep angle of the tie rods.

[metalstudman1]

The angle the rack is mounted doesn't have anything to do with the steering arms(they're radius ball joints) -only how the rack knuckle mounts to the steering wheel shaft so that the U-joints don't bind.
The stock shocks are pogo-sticks!!!! If you can get one of your buddies to weld- you can change the angle of the ball joint tabs on the end of the A-arm and you can use shocks ranging from 9.5(stock) to 14"(or longer)
If you don't care about reading a little-some of my earlier posts show the tabs with ball joints http://www.buggymasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1159. You need the shocks you want to use before trying to modify the tab angle as the exact angle is based off the unloaded shock. Basically mount the new shocks and level the tab with the ground, this get's you as much travel as the ball joints will allow without binding. There are SO many things to consider with these front ends!!!! We drive ROUGH and I've been trying to make a long travel durable design-(cheap) I may be getting close!!!!

[Cowboy76]

Thanks I had read that post allredy. It has some hood info. I have a buddy who is going to loan me a small welder, I can weld, just don't have a welder. I will have to do unseen welds to get warmed up.

I like the work you've .done to your wife's buggy. Maybe some day I will get ours to that level, figure the buggy can grow as the kids do.

[metalstudman1]

Great- you can make tabs out of 1/4" flat stock and eliminate the washers you'll need when you get your new ball joints and just have the diameter hole of the studs- It's a simple triangle with a hole in it, cut the old tabs off and weld the new ones on at the corrected angle.

[Cowboy76]

Just ordered my front shocks from what I have read on here these seem pretty popular.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORCYCLE-S...cd25ce&vxp=mtr

Got front end pulled off. People who can't weld shouldn't!!! also everyone should be aware JB weld is not for holding a load!! Booger welds were so bad they broke off from light hits with a hammer ZERO penetration! OK enough of my rant.

Everything seems repairable, now I need to get some steel, & take measurements. Think I reinforce front and back of bulk head by covering them completely, I will get one of the guys that run the water-jet at work to cut out those plates, and anyothers I need.

The bushings on the A-arms are shot. Mine has the 1/2" bolts that run thru a steel sleeve that measures about .700Ø then the bushings. Sourcing bushings should be easy, but I have read about upgrading to 5/8 bolts. When that is done, are people getting a bigger steel sleeve or just getting rid of it & using a grade 8 bolt & bronze bushings. Something else I thought about would it be a good idea to install a grease zerk in the A-arm? My thoughts are grease always helps when you have metal on metal.

[metalstudman1]

Heads up about your shocks-If they're the same as Surplus Supply sold mine only lasted about 40-50hrs of hard driving before they sagged to a point they needed replacement- they were great till that point. The grease zerk modification is on many posts here - tip: take your grease gun and mark where it connects easily after your new ,taller shocks are installed.
If you want to change to the even A-arms now before you reposition the ball joint tabs for your new shocks you'll just need to order 2 (the uppers), then just cut the off-set tab on the spindle and re-drill a ball joint hole straight above the bottom one. BMI sells these parts- they also have your bushings there. The bolts that the A-arms pivot on only need replacing if bent or galled,the grease zerk addition helps them last a lot longer.

[Cowboy76]

I've made some headway on the spiderbox, rewelded & reinforced the bulk head, made new bushings for the a-arms. Started mocking up everything so I could get the angle for the ball joint tabs. I noticed that the way the uneven upper a arms slope back they are going to hit my new shocks maybe 1/8" clearance.

So that leaves me two questions.
I only need to replace the uppers correct?
Even uppers are square, don't slope back?
Is BMI my best bet to get a arms?

The good news is I don't have to replace th e spindles after closer inspection they are gen 3 spindles someone made them gen 1/2 they took a plate drilled 2 holes & bolted them to the upper ball joint holes then poorly welded them. My thought is unbolt & break the welds. Then beef them up.

Also my budget just got smaller. We new my wife was pregnant, but we didn't know it was twins!! So any low buck alternive fixs would be taken.

Thanks everybody
Rex

[metalstudman1]

Wonderful news about the twins-congrat's. for your questions-only uppers, the even uppers are the same size as the lowers you have so you'll have shock clearance. Just about any mod to the spindles to beef them up is good as long as you can still use a wrench on them !!!!

[Cowboy76]

Thanks Metalstudman, that conferms my thoughts. Think I'm going to call BMI this week & maybe run down next Sat. (they are about 2 hrs from me). I want to see if they have any bare swingarms if not I see they have the bare motors swing arms for $75 on ebay now. I figure if I run down & get what I need it will make a nice road trip & break even on ship at least.

[T3beatz]

Hey cowboy, I don't know if you've done your mods yet, but you can just extend your top A-arms with some tubing that slips over them. It's very simple to do and It will save you over $60-70 bucks. I did it in about 3 hours, I also used my same spindles, just drill a new hole even with the bottom ones and cut off the extra that's left over at the top.

I also think if your gonna take the tabs off and re-weld them you might as well take the money that you would have spent on new even A-arms and buy some Heims and Bungs. Toss out the tabs completly and do the mod. They will total to about $56.00 shipped, there are tons of threads on here how to do it.

In the pic you can see how I extended my top A-arms with just some 1" ID tubing, All you need is about 1.5Ft of it and most metal supply stores have it in the scrap bin. I cut 3" sections out and I extend the arms about 1" to get them even with the bottom.

I also made new top shock mounts and cut off the old ones, It's just 2x1 square tubing with the top cut off and cut to shape (the ID of the tubing just has to be about 3/4").

Just need to do some painting now... Oh, congrats on the Twins!

[Cowboy76]

Thanks for the tip T3beatz I lengthened my upper A arms today. Going to stay with ball joints. I had already bought them then, as always the project turned in to more than I first thought. I prob will eventualy go to heims. I should be about done with the front soon, finding time is always a problem. Still have to fix muffler & try to figure out the swing arm bushings. My son is itching to ride

[T3beatz]

What's wrong with the muffler and swing arm bushings?

[Cowboy76]

Muffler pipe is broke going to weld it. Swing arm bushings are shot. I am planning on making some similar to the poly bushings for leaf spring eyes. I'm going to turn some acetal headed bushings with a steel sleeve. I've searched for a post about swing arm bushings with no luck, so if my plan works I will do a write up. Metalstudman1 had said he didn't think the bushings were replacable, so I'm taking that as a challenge. Maybe I can contribute something.

[metalstudman1]

The fact that you're trying to come up with a solution is AWESOME!! The bushings in the swingarm are molded in the steel casing-that's why I said they weren't replaceable. A loose rubber bushing if you can find the right size might work -for awhile!! Please find a working solution- they wear out so quickly if you're beating up the buggy on a regular basis.