decisions on rollers/sliders-help

[MASTERBATES]

So I'm a lil confused as to what I should be shooting for weight wise. What are the beifits ranging from light weight sliders or rollers, to heavier weight sliders or rollers? All I am in need of is steady tourqe and keeping my speeds better if not the same. Could anyone explain this?any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[mb1134]

I ran 12g sliders in the Dr Pulley. Try some 12g or 11g. The 10g sliders might take away to much top end. I was quite happy with the 12g sliders. So happy i decided to throw the 10g and 12g into my DR2 variator after a discussion on here. Like i said the torque was so much better than the stock rollers and i never lost any speed. If you want to save some money on rollers, look up Northwest Buggy Parts. They sell full sets for like $10.

[Miamieddie]

I agree get the dr2 variator and the 10-12 sliders looks like a perfect combo.. I'm doing the same thing on the first of march. I'm staying with the yellow main clutch spring...Eddie.

[MASTERBATES]

Thanks guys

[SLESTAK75]

Do you want details as to how it works or just suggestions??

[ckau]

This question has been asked a million times over. It’s confusing and frustrating looking for a answer while attempting to make a decent decision. Unfortunately there is no easy answer.
First thing you got to remember.. And this is not meant to call out any particular responder who’s only trying to help but rather point out a very important factor when trying to make a choice.
In example : when some one asks “what works best?” you’ll get a response that reads “ I use such -an -such, and it works great!” Cudo’s to the responder for trying to help, but this person may be in Nevada and your in West Virginia! Two totally different types of terrain and driving styles. What works great for one is not going to work for another!
The CVT in these things have a very close/ tight ratio band. Meaning there is a very short amount of time it takes to get from low to high gear. The rollers or sliders, which ever you choose to use, are what controls this length of time.
Heavy weights require less inertia to spin out, read that as lower engine rpms, forcing the variator halves to close fast resulting in a transition into top gear at a lower rpm. This means that person in Nevada, with all that wide open space will reach the engine power band and also be in top gear! Great for those long flat stretches. He can open up and roll on!
Lighter weights slow the transition length of time, holding the CVT in a lower gear longer. Meaning the lighter weights will keep the ratio low for a longer period. The person in West Virgina needs the torque of lower gears to help climb those steep hills . He needs to slow the transition so he’s in a lower gear when reaching the power band
Heavier the weights = faster it goes to high ratio. Lighter the weights = slow change to high Ratio.
Two motors: One has 14 gram weights .one has 10 gram weights.
Both spinning at 5,000 rpms. The 14 gram motor has reached top gear already. The 14 gram motor still has rpm’s left to achieve a higher top speed.
The 10 gram motor is slow to reach top gear. This motor nay not reach high gear until 7,000 rpms. The 10 gram motor may reach top rpms but is still holding in a lower gear. Not good for top speed but she’s a real climber!
There’s so many variables that it is impossible to claim what’s best. Take what is suggested to use as a base line and experiment.

[SLESTAK75]

I'm glad you said that ckau. Now I don't have to.

[MASTERBATES]

Hey thanks ckau, that explained it very well!

[Johnny 5]

Very good explanation, adjusting for your riding terrain and style takes trial and error.

[jmansracerocket]

ckau is dead on with his statement so I will throw in my opinion, I run the 10gram rollers, and I do a lot of trail/woods riding and love them really woke up throttle response and quickness and I still top out at 35-36mph

[Johnny 5]

jman what kind of buggy do you have? and what gearing? And rollers do react faster on up and down shift. I just dont like them when they flat spot.

[jmansracerocket]

johnny I have a spiderbox , stock gearing to, the 10 gram rollers was like night and day and well worth the 12 bucks!!! lol I still have a bunch of parts and tricks to install I need to get my butt working on her hopefully soon il have pics posted of the progress in my build thread in the next week or 2

[Danp]

Where do you buy your rollers?

[Johnny 5]

Scooter elements has a roller set from 6g to 17g for 34.95 free shipping. Great for tuning to try to find the right ones. Or you can buy a set for 10.99

[Johnny 5]

What kind of buggy do you have Danp?

[SLESTAK75]

I had put the cheaper orange sliders in mine and have wondered if the Dr Pulley sliders work better. They are shaped slightly different. Anyone have experience with both??

[mb1134]

Im not sure about the difference in the rollers and sliders brands. I am kind of curious though. I bought a set of 8g rollers for the DR2 i never used from BuggyPartsNW. They look cheap in my opinion and they were only $8 or $10. Kinda curious how long they would hold up compared to the name brands. Hopefully i won't have to worry about rollers and slidersafter this weekend as i will be installing the J Costa TK variator.

[SLESTAK75]

Real interested to hear about that variator. Something new and completely different.

[Danp]

Originally Posted by Johnny 5

What kind of buggy do you have Danp?

I have and ASW Carbide. Scooter Elements doesn't ship to Canada. I ended up getting 11 gram rollers from GY6racingteam on ebay. I was torn between 10g and 11g and went with the 11's because I didn't want to take too much away from the top end. Hope that was a good decision. I'm also thinking of getting the red clutch spring.

[mb1134]

Get the yellow spring

[4pullingGM]

There's some good information here guys! I've been thinking about swapping springs and rollers in my Carbide as well and I'm curious, what's the difference between the red spring and the yellow spring?

[mb1134]

Depends on what spring you are referring to. The main torque spring or the 3 small clutch springs. The main torque spring determines how long you stay in low gear and how fast it downshifts. The red keeps you in low longer and downshifts quicker, but also causes your engine to rev higher.

The clutch springs determine what rpm you clutch engages for takeoff. The yellow 1500rpm, the red 2000 rpm.

[Miamieddie]

What ever choices you all make remember sliders are more durable than rollers...

[4pullingGM]

So you can install sliders in place of the rollers without having to change anything else?

[Miamieddie]

Correct they go in the same slott.

[2SlickNick]

does anyone know what the stock rollers weigh in a Carbide?
ASW uses rollers but the manuals don't tell you the weight.

[Johnny 5]

The Baja dune 150 came with 14g rollers. When I went to 10g rollers with a yellow torque spring it lost top speed but ran great on take off and spinning the tires. I would try 11 or 12 gram sliders but it depends on what works for your ridding style.

[2SlickNick]

I guess I could weigh them huh?
If mine is 14g stock too.
12 would work because my Carbide go 43 mph stock and has some real decent torque. So that way u gain some low end to don't lose to much top end. Thanks.

[Johnny 5]

43mph that is fast, I got my red dune to 39mph and it felt pretty good. If I had more straight away could of got to 40 plus. I would say 12 gram sliders might be the right start.

[4pullingGM]

Cool, thanks! I'm leaning towards the sliders when I get the green light from the wife for some upgrades

[2SlickNick]

Okay guys, look what I found. I think this will help. Looks like sliders for me!

http://www.unionmaterial.com/rollerweight6.htm

[2SlickNick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxcQGmT8EJc

[4pullingGM]

Wow, that was very informative. I see how it works, thanks for sharing Nick

[jmansracerocket]

I switched my 10gram rollers to 11gram sliders can't wait to try them out seems like the rollers do wear out pretty quick for me

[2SlickNick]

After reading the thread I came across that vide. it would have been a crime to not share the link.

[2SlickNick]

The more I look at the videos for comparison. The more I wonder if a slider can flip over in the ramps and then you would be S.O.L on the trails. Anyone have any input to that?

[Masteryota]

I am also a visual learner, I can read it, you can explain it, I can be shown the principle of it, but until I see it in action, I don't fully comprehend how it works in the real world. Thank you for the video.

[2SlickNick]

No problem.
I understand. It is a kinda of see it to believe it thing.

[2SlickNick]

Do I HAVE to use an impact to remove variator?
Can't I just use socket wrench?

[SLESTAK75]

you have to find a way to keep the variator stationary. What I have done is remove the cover and fan from the other side of the engine and insert the claw side of a hammer into the slot on the flywheel and spin it until its braced against the frame. Then I carefully use a socket wrench to loosen the bolt.

[2SlickNick]

okay cool, thanks for the info Slestak.

[Johnny 5]

I use a 3/8 inch impact gun. the torque is 40ftlbs or tight enough that it wont come loose. I don't recommend a 1/2 inch impact too much power. I also use blue Loctite on the threads for back up. If you don't have air tools or a cordless impact I guess this is the best way to get in done.

[2SlickNick]

ya, thanks for the input Johnny5. Impact is in the future

[2SlickNick]

Does anyone know the size of sliders I should order for Carbide?
i will probably go 12 gram but what size?
18x14?
??

[4pullingGM]

I'm not sure off hand, I was gonna take mine out and measure them when I'm ready to order the new ones.

[Carbide-Ohio]

I have 11 grams sliders (18x14) in my Carbide and I still run about 38-39 mph on flat ground. I'm OK with this as I never hit those kinds of speeds in the woods.

[bear]

Yeah, speeds like that in the woods would just scare the h-ll out of me!!!

[SLESTAK75]

18x14 is. The standard size for 150cc

[2SlickNick]

okay, thanks guys. Now I know what to order. I read the 12g sliders are equivalent to 10g rollers.

[2SlickNick]

hey Carbide - ohio, I see you have a winch.... did you fabricate a mount for that?? I really need one.

[Mudpuppy]

I have 10g in variator, yellow torque spring with blue clutch springs, and it will not pull a hill.. what do i need to do. we live in missouri and we have hills, creeks and mud.