Spindle balljoint options

[Masteryota]

Ok, decided to start a thread rather than continue to hijack Dukesracin's thread about the spindle type ball joints. Sorry man, your work looks good, and has stimulated ideas all around, but we will move the discussion here.

As mentioned, the strut type front ends all seem to have the same issue, ball joint failures. With the ball joint built into the spindle, you have to buy new ones. Fine if you have an ASW or Hammerhead buggy, but what about the harder to find ones, like Dazon or Carter for example. The ones on mine were replaced with Kinroad spindles roughly one year ago, and three out of four joints are loose. If that is the expected life span, then I am in trouble. At 80-100 bucks a side, I am looking at alternatives.

One idea is heims. The yerfs do great with heims. I'm thinking of going that route on mine, even though I already have the BD joints. The question really is, mounting. Although I have not disassembled the fornt yet, I have been able to take some preliminary measurements, the spindle tube is ~1.4"(35.5mm) and the turn in from straight is a little more than 30 degrees.

Mounting the heim vertically makes it the strongest it can be, but you would need more than 60 degrees of articulation to go stop to stop. A high misalign joint can give up to 64, too close for comfort for me. The positive is the up/down articulation is virtually unlimited in this position.

Mounting the joint horizontally gives unlimited turning, but at the price of overall joint strength, and limiting up/down articulation. Again, the high misalign joint, or regular joint with spacers, can yield 60 degrees, which on this type of suspension, I think is more than adequate. The thought here is to go a size larger to help offset the weakness of the joint mounted this way. The other drawback, is the stud on the ends of the spindle would need to be perfectly straight.

^^ This is the direction I am leaning right now. ^^

Another option is to use a joint similar to, or even the exact joint that BD offers for the Yerfs. They seem to hold up pretty well and they offer their lifetime warranty(just don't tell them it's not on a Yerf). The double stud joint is a good compromise between ease of install and durability, but aesthetically, lets face it, they are not as sexy as heims. This thought has crossed my mind while eyeballing hiems for the yerf, and although they seem like a good idea, my gut tells me something won't work with them.

There are weldable ball joint kits available, and not terribly priced, but they do not offer above 30 degrees of articulation. They are, however, re-buildable. The fabrication needed to make that joint work seems too complicated in comparison to hiem joints or conventional ball joints. Not to mention, if it breaks on the trail, unless you brought the tool and another joint, you might be SOL.

If I am wrong in any of the above, please step in and correct me. I am not one to get butt hurt over incorrect information. Also, step in weighing options and additional ideas. In this case, I want as much info to help make the right choice the first time, instead of the second or third time.

[ckau]

It's kind of ironic you should bring this up! We, at one time had actually planned to do a heim conversion on your dazon. Rich1 bought the buggy before the plan ever got off the drawing board. I got/had some initial concept drawings with dimensions somewhere. I'll post them if they still exist.
It's very do-able, the front wheel base width will be increased by aproximatly 2.5 inches and the steering arms length will also need to be lengthened. The most time consuming aspect would be the bung mounts in the A-arms. . I had also considered pointing the heims inwards rather than outwards, as like the yerf, in order to place the pivot point in the original location to keep wheelbase and steering arm stock dimensions.
The dilemma of setting the heim vertical or horizontal?
IMO, Placing the heim on the horizontal plane would be the way to go for several reasons.
The horizontal travel, as in steering movement far exceeds the vertical movement needed. There's only about 4 inches of vertical travel which falls well within the limits of the heim while using misalignment spacers so placing on the horizontal gives plenty of movement for all actions
80+% of force applied to the heim is on the horizontal plane. Just rolling forwards applies a certain amount of force on the horizontial plane. With striking an object as in a tree, stump rock or pot hole, initial force is applied rearwards then transmits into a vertical movement after total resistance is met. Vertical strength in irrelevant if the heim fails during the initial horizontal load force. plus the shock absorbs a good amount of that vertical force.
The force required to snap a decent quality heim would bend or tear a A-arm mount or the a-arm itself long before the heim itself fails, regardless of heim position.
you can only imagine the improvement heims would have on total strength , durability and articulation of the suspension. plus the ability to adjust front tracking.

[Masteryota]

Thanks Charlie, I knew somewhere, someone out there saw it the same way as I do. I lean towards mounting the top hiem inward to retain the stock location, the lower tab can be removed to allow the bung placement. I am hesitant to chop up perfectly good parts, but in the long run, I know it will be worth it. The part that makes especially nervous is the small tube size on the control arms.

If you have the concept sketches, that would be great.