Winter and snow jeting

[mb1134]

Wondering how you guys adjust your idle screw and main jet during the winter? I got some snow last week and took her out for a spin. After running the snot out of it, it would stall when coming to a stop. Seemed to backfire and hang a little when I let off the gas also. I'm assuming it is running a little lean compared to summer conditions. Any advice? Supposed to get 3-6 inches of snow today and looking forward to playing some more tonight and tomorrow.

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by mb1134

Wondering how you guys adjust your idle screw and main jet during the winter? I got some snow last week and took her out for a spin. After running the snot out of it, it would stall when coming to a stop. Seemed to backfire and hang a little when I let off the gas also. I'm assuming it is running a little lean compared to summer conditions. Any advice? Supposed to get 3-6 inches of snow today and looking forward to playing some more tonight and tomorrow.

mb I would def jet up if u tuned the carb in the summer and now its winter time theres going to be a difference in power, which will require more fuel do a speed test run and check the plug. Remember full throttle for 900-1200 feet shut it down keep your foot to the floor then check the plug. On my next build im going with a wideband to get a better and more accurate reading for situations like these, (weather change).

[mb1134]

I often thought about a wideband, but most that I remember for cars were too expensive. anyone know of a reliable semi cheap kit?

[x-bird]

tough thing about winter tuning is the moisture level in the air. you can have cold dry days and "summer" jetting will be just about fine. get a really moist day with temps just above freezing and you've got some crazy good air and will need to richen it up a lot. couple days later it'll be too rich if it gets really cold and dry again. went bonkers with the rockhound last winter. thankfully she's still in waiting for mods mode and parked non-running under a tarp for the winter.

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by x-bird

tough thing about winter tuning is the moisture level in the air. you can have cold dry days and "summer" jetting will be just about fine. get a really moist day with temps just above freezing and you've got some crazy good air and will need to richen it up a lot. couple days later it'll be too rich if it gets really cold and dry again. went bonkers with the rockhound last winter. thankfully she's still in waiting for mods mode and parked non-running under a tarp for the winter.

perfect example why Im going with a wideband on the hammerhead build.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291263954736...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

this is the one I will probally go with. You can go cheaper but this o2 sensor is more accurate then the older version.

[mb1134]

No bad. I see they have come down in price over the years. Been a while since I have bought and used any AEM equipment. Once installed an AEM FIC on a turboed car. Lots of fun. What range a/f should it run? Normal stoich 14.7? or should it run a little leaner at WOT?

[mb1134]

Well I just ordered one. Half tempted to buy one for the 150 also. Too bad they weren't a tad cheaper.

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by mb1134

Well I just ordered one. Half tempted to buy one for the 150 also. Too bad they weren't a tad cheaper.

I see it as a good investment for insurance and know how your engine is running.

[jmansracerocket]

I would recommend a 12.5 to 13.1 for wide open throttle

[mb1134]

12.5 to 13.1? I was guessing maybe 13.5. I don't have much experience tuning a N/A engine so im not sure. Anyone else have any ideas?

I ended up buying a cheaper Wideband for the 150. Its from wide-band.com apsx D2. About $35 less than the AEM or Innovative kits.

[jmansracerocket]

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2008...fuel-equation/

really good article on n/a carb tuning

either way let us know how the widebands go for you

[mb1134]

Thanks. Will do. Should be seeing them in next week and installing on the 250 next week. 150 will have to wait until I pull the engine out and swap a few parts into the new one.

[351mustanger]

I have a wideband on a carbureted mustang. I run about 14:1-15:1 at idle and 13:1 at wide open throttle. Gets reasonable mileage cruising and runs strong and safe when playing. Jman is dead on in my opinion. Also they come with a bung to weld to the exhaust. You could put a bung in each buggy and use the same sensor for tuning on both. Just use a drain plug with the same thread to plug the one your not using it on.

[mb1134]

I thought about putting a bung on both, but decided to just go with separate units. Any idea what size our roll cages are? I am thinking about buying a couple of the AutoMeter roll cage pods.

[jmansracerocket]

The roll bar above ur head that comes down to the front should be 1.25 inches thick but not sure if it's different for the 250cc buggy but I'm pretty sure it's the same as the 150s.

[mb1134]

Thank you good sir. I never got the chance to measure either of them. Contemplating if I should mount both to the front drivers side or on the front frame near the speedo.

[jmansracerocket]

mb how did you ever make out with the wideband kits ? and if so any pics ? im about to order one in the next day or so

[mb1134]

I have yet to fully install them as I never have much free time. I bought the curved bungs for easier fitment and also a 1" bung extender so the sensor doesn't sit too far down in the exhaust on the 150. I am hoping to get them welded and wired up this weekend. I have them mounted right now though. I also plan on putting a toggle switch on them both so they can be shut off. May possibly splice the 150's into my Trailtech and skip the toggle.

[jmansracerocket]

mb do u have a link for the bung extender ? or once its all done post some pics please.

[mb1134]

Try searching ebay for.... O2 oxygen sensor extender extension m18 x 1.5 bung. They were about $5 apiece. Hopefully these pics show up. For some reason I cnt see the pics you post here at work.

[jmansracerocket]

U the man mb I found it.

[mb1134]

No problem. Just need to get my bungs welded and hook up some wires and I am good to go. The pods I bought were autometer 2204. They are nice for the price and allowed me to mount directly on the plastic dash. check them out.

[jmansracerocket]

hey mb I see you have the hh exhaust on the 150cc is your pipe aluminum also? I stuck a magnet to my pipe and its aluminum I have to find someone whos good at welding aluminum.

[jmansracerocket]

I ordered the aem wideband kit 30-4110, ordered the bung extender, ordered the bung cap, last thing I really need is a mount and was trying to thing if I should get something to mount on the roll bar pipe and something I could mount near the steering wheel.

[liduno]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

hey mb I see you have the hh exhaust on the 150cc is your pipe aluminum also? I stuck a magnet to my pipe and its aluminum I have to find someone whos good at welding aluminum.

Are you sure it's not stainless? Or some other alloy other than aluminum?

I could see the silencer being aluminum but I've never seen an aluminum pipe on a buggy.

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by liduno

Are you sure it's not stainless? Or some other alloy other than aluminum?

I could see the silencer being aluminum but I've never seen an aluminum pipe on a buggy.

that's what the other guys where saying on buggynews also but I stuck a magnet all over it and got nothing. maybe il call buggypartsnw and see what mike says that's where I bought both of them. Mb I ordered the same autometer mount u recommended.

[liduno]

A magnet wont stick to good stainless, or a host of other alloys.

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by liduno

A magnet wont stick to good stainless, or a host of other alloys.

I do think its stainless steel I Im just waiting to hear back from buggynw either way il get someone to just weld the bung on for me my welder is set for mild steel.

[jmansracerocket]

well mike spoke with hammerhead and hammerhead is saying its aluminum.

[mb1134]

That's odd, I was always under the impression that the header was stainless. I bought the same AEM for my 250. Figured I would but a little bit cheaper model for the 150 and went with one from APSX www.wide-band.com.

[liduno]

You can't weld a steel bung to an aluminum pipe.

In a pinch you can weld stainless using regular wire for mild steel. It isn't as pretty but it will work for something like a bung.

[jmansracerocket]

man I don't know what to really do I might take the pipe to a welding shop and see what they say if the can tell its stainless steel or aluminum

[liduno]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

man I don't know what to really do I might take the pipe to a welding shop and see what they say if the can tell its stainless steel or aluminum

Aluminum is pretty soft. If you can scratch a groove in it with a screw driver then it's aluminum. It would be difficult to a scratch a groove in stainless, you might get a surface scratch but not a deep groove..

[mb1134]

I'm pretty sure this is stainless and not aluminum. Anyone else have any input? Someone who sells them or has welded a bung to one before?

[jmansracerocket]

not sure mb, but I already got my wideband kit! that was fast I cant wait to put it in, curious where are u getting ur power from to power the gauge up? or did u just extend the wire and run It to the battery with a fuse on it?

[mb1134]

I am going to run a wire from the battery to a toggle switch then to the gauge. This way I can turn it off or on anytime I want.

[BuggyMaster]

You guys will be very surprised at what you see the AFR's running at on these buggy's. They run naturally lean when compared to a larger engine like in a car. We did some pretty extensive stuff with the wideband around 5 years ago or so all in the quest for getting a perfect burning spark plug. I might have an old thread on it somewhere. Will have to look.

[mb1134]

Sounds good BuggyMaster. Do you recall the typical AFR you were running at WOT and idle for a proper burn? I was wondering if I should tune it similar to a cars WOT AFR.

[jmansracerocket]

a little update with getting the bung welded on, my dad looked over the pipe and said its stainless steel, hopefully getting it welded by the end of this week.

[x-bird]

technically it really doesn't matter if it's a car, bike, buggy etc. same principles apply. However, ethanol blended fuel throws a bit of a curve into the equation since its burn rate and temp is slightly different than non blended fuel. Knowing your compression ratio, jug and head head material and how much tolerance to running leaner than stoich your setup can handle along with the fuel's composition and rating is the key to determining the AFR

[mb1134]

I always run 93 non-ethanol. BuggyMaster said his was showing optimal burn and plug reading at around 15:1. I'm kind of torn where to go as I don't really have much area to do WOT tests and compare the plug reading to the AFR from my wideband.

Jman I was pretty sure the pipe was stainless. I haven't had any time to even get the bung welded so who knows when I will get this completed on either buggy and the new 150 engine broken in.

[jmansracerocket]

Originally Posted by mb1134

I always run 93 non-ethanol. BuggyMaster said his was showing optimal burn and plug reading at around 15:1. I'm kind of torn where to go as I don't really have much area to do WOT tests and compare the plug reading to the AFR from my wideband.

Jman I was pretty sure the pipe was stainless. I haven't had any time to even get the bung welded so who knows when I will get this completed on either buggy and the new 150 engine broken in.

yeah I had the old man look it over he said its stainless, so he has a mig welder hes going to weld the bung for me. I have a Lincoln mig welder but have it all setup for flux welding I don't feel like swapping everything over just for a bung.

[351mustanger]

Post your afr readings when you get them. I am with x-bird on tuning. It shouldn't matter about engine size. Fuel choice will change the optimum ratio. And compression ratio will determine how picky the engine is and how accurate you need to be. The higher the compression the less tolerance it will have for a lean condition.

[BuggyMaster]

Originally Posted by 351mustanger

Post your afr readings when you get them. I am with x-bird on tuning. It shouldn't matter about engine size. Fuel choice will change the optimum ratio. And compression ratio will determine how picky the engine is and how accurate you need to be. The higher the compression the less tolerance it will have for a lean condition.

Thats what I thought when I first started messing with these is that I was going to get a sweet 12.5 to 1 and be golden but it sure taught me otherwise. You start getting fatter than that and these little bore machines start choking out.

[BuggyMaster]

Originally Posted by jmansracerocket

a little update with getting the bung welded on, my dad looked over the pipe and said its stainless steel, hopefully getting it welded by the end of this week.

For mine I got some cheap 3/4 flat metal and made a bracket and welded the bung to the end of it. Used a big hose clamp to strap it to the muffler and when installed the wideband would be sitting inside the end of the muffler. The advantage was that it was portable. I could hook it up to just about any buggy. Had the laptop logging data in my sons lap as we would blast the half mile straight away. Good days for sure.