Meaningless thoughts, big motor, little cart! - BuggyMasters.Com - An On Line Mini Buggy Forum and Go Kart Forum

300cpilot · #1 07-23-2011, 02:44 PM

Goal of this is to have a cart that will keep up with a 4 wheeler at 6800 feet altitude. And be as reliable as a factory installed engine. I know it's a tall order.

I am kicking around putting a 2 cyclinder, 2 cycle engine, in a Dazon 250. My idea would require the use of the original snowmobile clutch (unless someone knows where I can get a better one?), so what gear box do I use? And more importantly where would I get it? I do want a high.low & reverse or a manual 4 speed would be ok.

I have also looked into having the existing gear box cut off of the motor and modified but I do not think it will take the 4 times more power that would be going through it. When we are out, it is a loooong way back, if you have to be towed.

Thanks for your thoughts.

metalstudman1 · #2 07-23-2011, 09:28 PM

go Polaris ATV engine- with a re-jet (just for reference- my comet 102c & Polaris p-85 clutch parts interchange)

300cpilot · #3 07-24-2011, 05:01 PM

My donor engine comes from a 1996 Ski doo Summit which has a Rotax HAC 670, so I have some limits already. This was a fast sled before it got broken so I am hoping it will fit with some slight mods.

The new thing that really worries me is cooling this beast.

metalstudman1 · #4 07-24-2011, 11:16 PM

Sorry you didn't say you already had a power plant-It sure seems possible the whole drive train can be used-the CVT is your gear box.Since I've never owned a sled I may be way off track, but it seems to me that the driven is on an axle that has shafts out both sides.Why couldn't you do the same thing with your rear axle?Why is cooling it a worry?

300cpilot · #5 07-24-2011, 11:46 PM

Sorry forgot a lot, the sled has been gutted so the track and gearbox are gone. The previous owner sold them before I got there. So the engine runs but I only have the primary drive on the engine. I am worried about the cooling because I do not have any ducting that went around the engine to direct the cooling air and this will be mounted behind seats that will disrupt the air flow. So I would expect hot spots or over heating.

metalstudman1 · #6 07-25-2011, 11:49 AM

A 2 stroke that size has got to be well over a 100 hp!!! Is the Rotax air cooled? Isn't there cheap trashed sleds for sale to salvage the driven out of? Driven or gearboxes are realivity expensive to buy.

300cpilot · #7 07-28-2011, 11:14 PM

I was shocked but the guy at the Skidoo shop said the engine was over 120hp and I thought it was because there was no radiator, but it is water cooled. Hint: no cooling fins! I will be looking for a trashed sled to get the gearbox out of plus the water works. Spent to much money to start over.

metalstudman1 · #8 07-28-2011, 11:30 PM

Sounds like a mega-monster!!! This where the tough $$ choices begin!! Good luck with the search- make sure what you find is heavy duty enough for all that HP. Post some pic's when you get started so we can all drool!!!!

300cpilot · #9 07-30-2011, 09:13 PM

I decided that the rotax was to much if there can be such a thing. Plus there were to many things missing. So I decided to trade it for a running sled, so that I would have everything to start with. So I traded it for a Yamaha 540 that is air cooled, he believed it was between 60-80hp? But it runs good and it is a little more old school. 2 cylinders, single carb and no electronics. The pull start is not something I didnt want, but the flywheel has teeth on it for what looks like a starter, so maybe there is one out there that can work? I will post some photos soon.

metalstudman1 · #10 07-30-2011, 11:22 PM

I'm with you on just having the pull start!!! my 440 buggy can get a starter but the kit is in excess of $300.
Nice trade out- I agree the 540 is more managable over the long haul and that's PLENTY of hp to keep up with the 4-wheelers.You should have most everything you need now other than your imagination working overtime!!!!
Can't wait to see your progress and pic's

300cpilot · #11 07-31-2011, 01:22 AM

I have been measuring things and I think the engine will fit without lengthing the swing arm that the current engine is on. The bad that I have learn is that the exhaust will be against the seats. This means it will have to go under the buggy, eating up clearence.

The other thing I have found is that I can use the gearbox out of the snow mobile if I do not want reverse. One of the welders I have been talking to, wants me to put an electric starter motor on it to act as a reverse when the gearbox is in nuetral. But I want reverse so I am going to try and use the Dazon gearbox instead. I am sure it is not designed for this, but I have been unable to find any other solutions. Also I will have a 250cc motor minus the gear box for sale cheap. I am unsure how many hours are on it because the speedo broke at 11 miles. I do not know if it is the CN or CF? It runs good though.

GX150 · #12 07-31-2011, 01:00 PM

The Dazons used CN250 engines. Only Hammerhead and Joyner use the CFMoto 250.

metalstudman1 · #13 07-31-2011, 03:01 PM

Is the gearbox on a Dazon independent from the engine?

GX150 · #14 07-31-2011, 09:46 PM

It is basically a GY6 reverse box on a CN250.

300cpilot · #15 08-01-2011, 12:04 AM

? so is this bad? Will it be destroyed on the first lap or will it last until I am out in the boonies?

I did unbolt it from the motor.

GX150 · #16 08-01-2011, 12:14 AM

I know someone that used it on Honda CM450A engine with success, but I think it had less horsepower than what you plan to push through it.

metalstudman1 · #17 08-01-2011, 01:47 PM

I don't know if it's bad!!! how are you intending to get the power to the gearbox? Can you post some pics of the items you're going to use?and the rear of the Dazon too.I might be able to provide an opinion!

300cpilot · #18 08-01-2011, 03:00 PM

http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/...0cpilot/Dazon/ These are the before we took the Dazon apart. You can see that there is a piece of steel between the gearbox and the portion of the engine case where the clutch mounts.

Thedonor sled pictures. http://s1134.photobucket.com/albums/...00cpilot/Sled/

As you can tell I have not even unloaded the sled yet.

As far as the mounting a pully to the gear box, well I have not got a clue yet. I am sure some things are going to need to be built.

Edit:
ok if I extend the frame by 8 inches, use the primary and secondary clutch from the sled and then use the shaft with a chain/gear to the gearbox?

metalstudman1 · #19 08-02-2011, 01:32 AM

" One of the welders I have been talking to, wants me to put an electric starter motor on it to act as a reverse when the gearbox is in nuetral."
You don't have nuetral with a CVT so the won't work.
" The bad that I have learn is that the exhaust will be against the seats. This means it will have to go under the buggy, eating up clearence."
you just need to run the pipe vertical and then get the pipe to the back horizontally either under or over.You only need about 6"
Can't really tell from the sled pic's what comes out of the gearbox- so trying to figure out a way to power the Dazon reverse box is still a mystery!! If you salvaged the output shaft from the 250 at least you'd have the correct splines for the Dazon gearbox-
The sled looks decent!!! fairly new trac under it!

300cpilot · #20 08-02-2011, 10:03 AM

I think you are right about using the output shaft so the splines line up. The sled is an 84 and I think it hit more things than it missed. The track was new about 2 years ago, I have the left over parts/sled for sale on a site where people collect these sled's. I guess there is quite the following. I also got part of the sled dissassembled last night and found no problems yet. It does have an oil injector on it, that I will be removing so that things are that much more simple.

I am going to take the output shaft from the Dazon and the sled and then talk to a machine shop to see how much to make me a new shaft with the combo of splines on it. Plus I will need some way to lock it to 2 carrier bearings, on the shaft.

Should I worry about dirt/water in the clutch and make a enclosure? I do far more desert, dry riding than anything.

metalstudman1 · #21 08-02-2011, 01:35 PM

"Should I worry about dirt/water in the clutch and make a enclosure?"
I don't think so- Odyssey's never had anything enclosed and they're still around!!!!
I think you're on the right path with the output shaft(that's what I'd do!)I agree with the injector elimination too.

300cpilot · #22 08-02-2011, 06:26 PM

Seams that no one in town has a clutch puller for this beast, any way to get it off without one. On the sled that is.

metalstudman1 · #23 08-02-2011, 09:06 PM

A puller is nothing more than a bolt and a rod--- One of my front spindles from Northern still in the package has a 3/4" x 16 thread so I didn't have to buy a bolt, then I measured into the end of the crankshaft- mine was about 4-1/2" from the back side of the big threads on the clutch. Cut a 3/8" rod/bolt slid it in the hole then threaded the 3/4" x 16 threaded bolt (in my case the threaded end of my spindle) in and turned it till it all popped loose, didn't take much force either.

300cpilot · #24 08-03-2011, 07:53 PM

You were right on the money with the bolt, but my rod needed to be a little longer. Wife thinks so too. Anyway I cant get the short one out now... So I cut off another piece put in in there and will preceed as soon as it gets below 104° degrees out there!

As always thank you for your help! √

metalstudman1 · #25 08-03-2011, 10:56 PM

get a magnet and pull the short pieces out-I wouldn't try that with 2 pieces-if they get's sideways you're going to have issues. measure from the back of the clutch threads to the end of crank- or measure the bolt you took out minus about 1"

300cpilot · #26 08-03-2011, 11:35 PM

We had success! The 3 pieces all fell out and the bolt went back in without issue. Towards the end I was worried because it wasn't coming off, so I did what any good backyard mechanic would do...Hit it with a large rubber hammer and it fell off!

MetalStudman I couldn't have done it without you!

Funny how the top of the motor looks clean and the bottom is just caked with crap. I spent about an hour today talking to machine shops and found one that will build me an adapter shaft with both sets of splines on it. $350.00 with heat treating. Now I have to mock it all up and get messurements. Also this motor is at least 20 lb's lighter that the original 250cc.

lb's = hp

metalstudman1 · #27 08-04-2011, 06:40 AM

Glad to hear you got the clutch off!! Sorry to hear it's going to cost $350. to make a shaft. Just hope the tranny can take the abuse!
2-strokes are always nasty on the bottom end of the motor from all that oil spewing!!!!
less lb's does = hp (especially if it's the drivers lb's!!!)

300cpilot · #28 08-04-2011, 09:53 AM

I did eat at Panda Express on Friday and ended up in the ER. Lost 6 lbs from that alone!

300cpilot · #29 08-04-2011, 06:59 PM

Ok I am trying to get the old motor out of the Dazon and I am feeling really stupid, but I can not find all the bolts that hold the belt cover on. The link below shows 6 bolts total but there are only 2 in the middle of the cover. Surely you do not have to remove the engine to replace a belt? Thanks again.

http://www.dazonparts.com/left-crank...sCsid=rgexhymp

300cpilot · #30 08-05-2011, 04:17 PM

Ok got everything apart. Here are some more photos of the gear box and the sled shaft. The gear box actually has a caller that the snowmobile shaft would need to go into. I am thinking of just welding the two together so that it is a single shaft? Thoughts.

metalstudman1 · #31 08-05-2011, 07:21 PM

I like the set-up for the transmission having internal splines-Where does the splined end of the sled shaft go on the sled?

300cpilot · #32 08-09-2011, 12:56 AM

Sorry my computer died and I just got back online. The splines on the shaft go into the snowmobile pulley. I believe I am going to do is have them cut the shaft at 9" and then cut splines in it so that it will slid into the gearbox coupler splines. It is just large enough to get away with it. I just have to have them tell me if the shaft is hardened already, which will make it hard to work with. I am not 100% sure I will weld it, I want to be able to replace it if it breaks. But the way it would be, it would have play in there that would just grind away over time. The shaft will be secured by 2 bearings in pillow blocks, so it should be strong.

Has anyone ever put an alternator on a buggy? I do not think the stator on this will power as much as the old engine would. It only had a 15 watt head light on the sled.

Thinking about something like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-C...Q5fAccessories

Which is a simple single wire setup.
Thoughts?

metalstudman1 · #33 08-09-2011, 02:19 PM

Have you checked the engine spec's for output wattage/voltage? Can't believe that's all the stator puts out.My old engine puts out 120 watts-which is plenty for lighting and accessories.

300cpilot · #34 08-09-2011, 02:48 PM

No I have not looked it up yet, but the sled did not have a battery in it so I am not sure about adding the load of a battery, lighting and winch will place on it. I was just curious if anyone had tried it.

I truely thought I was going to get away without cutting the frame, but I just forgot how big the sled pully was. Just need about 1 inch more of room.

metalstudman1 · #35 08-09-2011, 07:31 PM

Surely your sled could've gotten a starter if that option was bought-The stators should've been the same with or without a starter or a battery.I'm betting you won't need the alternator- does your sled have a voltage regulator or rectifier?
If you don't have to cut the frame it wouldn't be a challenge!!!!!

300cpilot · #36 08-09-2011, 07:39 PM

It just had a rectifier and when running at about 3000 rpm it put out 16 VDC. I am planning out my coupler's bearing placement and it seams that I am not going to be able to do the plan A. Working on plan B now.

metalstudman1 · #37 08-09-2011, 10:09 PM

No need for an alternator!!!!!!

300cpilot · #38 08-09-2011, 11:55 PM

ok thats a negative on the alternator.

How about this for a coupler housing:

This I hope gives you an idea of what I am trying to accomplish. The big thing was that I had to shorten the shaft a little and this picture helps show how I think I can make it work. Below is just the shaft stuck into the coupler with a sealed bearing and the cover. I need to make this thing solid so that there is no slop in the shaft.

metalstudman1 · #39 08-10-2011, 01:21 PM

Can you take a pic of the secondary clutch now that it's out of the sled? I like your idea with the bearings.Is the frame rail to the right of the pics the part you'll need to cut?

300cpilot · #40 08-10-2011, 01:53 PM

The bottom frame rail is the one (on right) I have to cut but luckily not the top one. I do not think it will look to bad going around the cut with a new piece of tube. The brace in the picture is out of the way.

metalstudman1 · #41 08-10-2011, 08:22 PM

So in theory you could have the shaft run completely through the secondary to a pillow bearing & support it on the frame rail?You shouldn't need a bearing at the trans coupler unless there isn't one on the other side of the plate where the sprocket holder is.Cutting the frame is a piece of cake with just adding another spreader brace and leaving the notch.

300cpilot · #42 08-10-2011, 10:52 PM

There isn't a bearing on the coupler so I figured it could use one or the wobble would kill it pretty quick. Also the saft will not go clear though the secondary so I can not put a bearing on that side, as far as I can see anyway.

metalstudman1 · #43 08-10-2011, 11:29 PM

The engine must have had the bearing for the shaft into the coupler. Couldn't you use the female threads in the end of the shaft to make an extension shaft that is demountable-slide it through a bearing ,locktite it in and have support out where the weight and load is. Bearings at both sides of the driven ensures a true free turning shaft with little to no-load on the splined coupler end of the shaft.

300cpilot · #44 08-11-2011, 12:17 AM

The other issue is that the whole thing has to move for the chain tensioner. This is why I put both bearings on the one side. The coupler did not have a bearing on it at all, it was free floated between the gearbox and the engine. Kind of like a yok in the back of an automatic transmition. I do think the bearings need to be further apart, but I am unsure about putting a bearing on each side of the secondary. I know this would be best, but think I am going to try my design first. This is simular to how it was in the sled so I am hopeful it will work. I am headed to the machine shop tomorrow. I am going to have them build me a new shaft, this one has a twist in it and I can't trust it.

Also what would happen if this engine was mounted with the plugs down instead of up ontop? This would put the carb towards the seat and the exhaust out the back? I would just spin the carb around so that it is right side up. I have a feeling it would be a plug fouling pig, but am curious what others would think?

I ordered the starter for this guy today, $75.00, going to leave the pull rope on just incase of dead battery.

300cpilot · #45 08-21-2011, 12:09 AM

Got the starter put on. I checked on my shaft and it has gotten pushed back 2 weeks, because I am a little guy. I am kicking around buying a lathe, I have a harbor fright mill that I bought a few years ago. It took a long time before it would cut a straight line so I am not sure about what I would get with one of there lathe's?

300cpilot · #46 08-22-2011, 11:24 PM

The machine shop talked me out of buying the lathe. Cutting the splines are a real pain. Two weeks from today....Maybe.

300cpilot · #47 08-31-2011, 11:18 PM

Update: Machine shop called me over to explain what I wanted, for the third time... Said it would be done on Friday! Holding breath.

metalstudman1 · #48 09-01-2011, 11:45 AM

Good luck!

300cpilot · #49 09-01-2011, 01:29 PM

Thanks!

300cpilot · #50 09-09-2011, 11:57 PM

No Joy here yet! Stopped by the shop and they had miss placed my stuff.

But getting the wiring done so I can plug in a welder, nothing fancy a stick AC/DC box. I have not welded in almost 20 years so this will be fun! Going to ruin a few rods during the remembering stage. Going to Lowes in the morning for a 30 amp breaker, plugin and wire.

metalstudman1 · #51 09-10-2011, 12:10 PM

Geeze!! Funny how shops do that!!! I called about my stator rewind and no-bodies even looked at it!!!!
Good luck with the rod sticking process

300cpilot · #52 09-13-2011, 12:06 AM

Believe it or not, I use to make my living as a professional welder, so I think it will only take a couple of pounds of rods to remember how to do it...

Ended up going riding, so I have not got the wiring done yet.

metalstudman1 · #53 09-13-2011, 08:24 AM

I hear ya!!! I end up going to play in the dirt too much too- and things just seem to take longer to do!!!!

300cpilot · #54 09-20-2011, 07:38 PM

Got the parts! But they get to go back tomorrow... Cause I forgot to get all the bearings pressed on. Duhhh.

Ended up with 4 sealed bearings instead of 2, 4140 steel staft and a 1/2" walled tube for the retainer.

Looks good though! Even if the photos are messed up, looked good when I took them, sorry.

300cpilot · #55 09-22-2011, 11:26 PM

Also decided to make this a bolt on instead of a weld on mod. I am looking into selling these as a kit. Possibly with a forward/reverse gear box and bracket to hold it all together with. I am hopefull that I get it all back tomorrow so I can stay up all night putting it together...

metalstudman1 · #56 09-23-2011, 12:04 PM

Please take some pics along the way of your assembly process for curious George's like me!!!

300cpilot · #57 09-23-2011, 07:52 PM

Got it back and they suprised me! They made me a dust cover! I think it looks good.

metalstudman1 · #58 09-24-2011, 12:07 AM

Looks great, they did a nice job- Let's see it installed!!!!!

300cpilot · #59 09-24-2011, 12:57 AM

Had a change of plans, server went down so I get to fix that tonight...

300cpilot · #60 10-01-2011, 01:01 AM

Got it Mounted, the adapter that is! Now I have to put everything back together... The fun begins tomorrow!

BuggyMaster · #61 10-02-2011, 10:54 PM

what an epic awesome thread. Nice job, guys.

300cpilot · #62 10-02-2011, 11:46 PM

Should have tubing bent up and ready to weld in later this week...

x-bird · #63 10-13-2011, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300cpilot

Goal of this is to have a cart that will keep up with a 4 wheeler at 6800 feet altitude. And be as reliable as a factory installed engine. I know it's a tall order.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Here's a thought for you which addresses one of your goals but raises havoc with the "other side."
If you're playing at altitude, any thoughts to sticking a turbo on it?

300cpilot · #64 10-13-2011, 11:40 AM

I looked at doing that but found that it would be more expensive to do than putting a larger motor into it. Then the turbo would have netted me at best 40hp out of a 250cc. The larger 2 cylinder 540cc engine is closer to 80hp. Also when you stress out an engine by adding a turbo and the engine was not designed for it, you will have issues.

Bigger engine has so far cost me about $600.00 a turbo would have cost around $1200.00. I have kicked this idea around several times for my HH250, but I think it will end up with a larger engine at some point.

300cpilot · #65 10-13-2011, 12:27 PM

This is a Joyner that is for sale on Craigs list that is turbo'd.

http://boise.craigslist.org/rvs/2625958164.html

x-bird · #66 10-13-2011, 05:39 PM

reason I brought it up, when you;re dealing with altitude, more cubes is not the way to go, increasing volumetric efficiency is the ticket. That's why the big V-8s don't do as well as the blown 4s and 6s at pikes peak. Just not enough air to feed them naturally.

300cpilot · #67 10-13-2011, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x-bird

reason I brought it up, when you;re dealing with altitude, more cubes is not the way to go, increasing volumetric efficiency is the ticket. That's why the big V-8s don't do as well as the blown 4s and 6s at pikes peak. Just not enough air to feed them naturally.

This is true, naturally aspired engines lose about 3% for every 1000 feet you go up in altitude. But the bigger motor will still have more hp then the turbo'd motor in this case. At the same altitude. This is only because this motor is twice the power of the other. If you are talking identical motors then turbo is the only way to go.

x-bird · #68 10-14-2011, 01:59 AM

gotcha --law of diminishing returns is still on your side, so why up the degree of complexity and invite more potential problems. of course, turbos do have that nice sound and wow factor ... ))))

300cpilot · #69 10-14-2011, 03:15 PM

I know about the wow factor turbos & super chargers add. In high school I blew up 3 engines in 7 days using a 4-71 GMC blower on a small bock chevy. I then traded the blower for a truck 427 and never needed more than a 4 barrel carb after that. Then a little piece of paper put an end to it all! 154 mph in a 55. You do the math on that one. I think I have learned a little since HS, just say no to the temptations.

x-bird · #70 10-14-2011, 04:16 PM

Hate to hear what that cost! Got a 73 Formula SD 455 that's fairly well worked over. (knocking on 11s door) I try to keep those temptations on the strip. This little buggy i picked will definitely help out with that.

300cpilot · #71 10-14-2011, 06:38 PM

11's are out standing.

These buggys give you the sence of speed without actually going that fast. Safer right?

300cpilot · #72 10-14-2011, 06:55 PM

Well the engine fitting is underway... Sorry the photos suck, there from my calculator/phone.

metalstudman1 · #73 10-14-2011, 11:28 PM

That's a tight fit!!!The bearing carrier looks great with the driven installed.What's the plan for the exhaust?How's the engine supported?Where's the carb?

300cpilot · #74 10-15-2011, 12:44 PM

Yep, many questions yet to be answered. We need a longer belt also. We are trying to get it in there so that we can have the stock rack location and clear everything. I am going to have an exhaust made, sorry I am not as talented as I think, and it willcome around the drivers side of the buggy.

The carb will maybe mounted with a 90 degree elbow.

metalstudman1 · #75 10-15-2011, 09:24 PM

Sorry wasn't pick'n or rushing you for answers- So this was the first time you put the engine in the buggy to see if it would even fit?! Another question-is the brake caliper still on the rotor?,as it looked like the engine is very close to the rotor.You'll figure it all out!!!!That's the fun part of making a Frankenbuggy!!!Can you try to get somemore pics with a little more distance from the buggy so I/we can see the bigger picture of the whole engine compartment in realationship to the engine size?Parts Unlimited.com had the best price and selection of snowmobile belts- they list them by width and length.
By the way- I bought up dead 6-71 GMC blowers from the big rig wrecking yard back in the late 70's and re-vamped/milled them with new rotors,oiling system and gears for myself and buddies- I would plane down the top of an aluminum intake manifold back before pop-off valves were needed/available to the general public.Nothing adds horsepower like a roost style blower!!!!!!

300cpilot · #76 10-16-2011, 01:01 AM

No worrys, its just a much bigger job then I thought when I started. I will post more pictures when I take it up again on Monday.

I just realised the motor in the pictures is setting on the axel. It is not even mounted in these. New photos will help. The motor sets up enough to clear everything except the battery.

My roots blower days where based on a article in HotRod Mag in the early 80's, that showed how to set them up. Luckly there was a hot rodder in town that knew what to do with it. I only bolted it on, figured out the throttle linkage and started it up. Everyone thought I was crazy, maybe... But how else can you get a 72 chevy longbox pickup up to 154 mph. During that run I had a 350 ci small block & a 4-71 blower that was over driven 1.5 to 1. We never had a dyno to messure the hp, but a wild guess would have been around 450-500. It blew up and broke the cam in two places and seized the motor. I then blew up a second 350 from a wrecking yard in a race that broke the drive line as well. The third was a 302 (small journel) that was professionally rebuilt. 11 miles out of that puppy!I removed the blower from it right after that run around town. I was just breaking the motor in. Really.

The outcome of the speeding ticket: They let me keep the motor and trans out of the truck, but the truck it's self was cut up to make a trailer and was sold at auction.

metalstudman1 · #77 10-16-2011, 11:28 PM

Wow! that was some serious law-enforcement!!! I got a ticket for 131mph- cost $200. fine & that was all there was to it (in Texas) Gotta love the trials and errors of our "Need for speed" or that wonderful noise that comes from several ponies under the hood! Can't wait for your up-coming progress pictures.

300cpilot · #78 10-17-2011, 12:10 AM

Oh the sound of 3" open collectors on a set of hooker headers! That lullaby almost killed me a 100 times. Normally twice the speed limit here is jail time. I got only the fine because they took my truck, they did not know that my best friend and I had swapped the motor and trans out before they took it. It ran, so they did not care. The policeman didn't even chase us, he just came to my house later and let all the hell lose there. Issues of a small town and a one of a kind truck!

Pictures to follow.

300cpilot · #79 10-21-2011, 01:03 AM

Ok, I have got the buggy back from the fab shop. Yes, I hired it out. They did a great job! This way it got done faster!

Sorry but I did not get photos with the engine out. I will post photos tomorrow, when I can get some out in the light. We did learn that the Pull starter was broken and I ended up with the wrong starter. So that part sucked but other than that it has gone really well.

metalstudman1 · #80 10-21-2011, 01:06 PM

Can't wait!!!!

300cpilot · #81 10-21-2011, 03:13 PM

Really big picture post here. The shop that did the work is at www.getsomefab.com I think they did a great job! I spoke to the Yamaha shop and this motor was never offered with an electric starter, so we have to go back to the fab to put the pull starter back on. One of the supports is in the way.

Carb mock up, yes that is a copper elbo. I can not find a steel elbo that is that tight and 2" id. Leads on one would be nice.

Just getting an idea of what to do with the exhaust. This is the exhaust out of the sled, it is not what is going to end up on it, I hope. It almost works.

Mounts:

The only piece that still needs changed is the A-arm support above the cooling fan on the motor. We did not catch it at the fab shop. With it gone the stock rack will go right back on without modifing anything else.

metalstudman1 · #82 10-21-2011, 07:29 PM

I like the front mounts (nice job) but why couldn't the rear one been done where the carb would still fit? There appears to be plenty of room beside and below the intake.I'd get your guys @ the shop to come up with a different mount configuration when they get you some clearance for the pull start to fit! Just my thoughts on that!! So no electric start?,that sucks!!! Your exhaust appears to be easily modified too- Have you priced a custom expansion chamber lately?

300cpilot · #83 10-22-2011, 12:07 AM

The carb would be up against the back bar and you could not get a airfilter on it. Plus messing with that back bar was to much work. Then if you raise the engine to clear the bar, it then runs into problems with the rack. This was the best solution we could come up with. I got a tube made today for the carb. The exhaust is going to be a challenge From the sound of it today I will be using the same exhaust. Know one around here will make an exhaust for it.

metalstudman1 · #84 10-22-2011, 11:06 AM

Sounds like you got it under control!! I'm loving your project- I hope your's doesn't frustrate you like mine has and runs well. We have a motorcycle salvage yard in our area- He has 2 dozen expansion chambers hanging up from numerous engines, I couldn't find one that was close enough for my project to buy, that's why I had to build one. Have you checked for some similar place of business there?

300cpilot · #85 10-22-2011, 11:46 AM

I would not say under control...

I have looked at the only salvage yard in the area that does bikes and they told me all there product is on ebay. And all of them are atleast 100.00. I am going to figure out mine like you had too, I think.

metalstudman1 · #86 10-22-2011, 11:00 PM

I hear ya!! the salvage yard here wanted as much as $200. for one!!!Your pipe was hydroformed so it's going to be THIN!!! (18g-20g)Should probably be brazed if cut and modified- my welder is awesome and I had hell with the 20g.I see your pipe working with a little help @ the first bend or make a new manifold which is easy.

300cpilot · #87 10-23-2011, 02:18 AM

If I had a tig I could weld the small stuff, but the old stick job is not going to hack it. What do you think of filling it with sand so I can heat it and bend it? This will stop it from colapsing. I only need to bend the last 3rd of the exhaust so that it exits straight out.

metalstudman1 · #88 10-23-2011, 12:28 PM

That may work-with hydroformed pipes the seam dictates the shape,so heating the seam and slowly reshaping might do the trick-never tried it though.

300cpilot · #89 10-23-2011, 12:59 PM

I am now wondering about getting all the sand out afterwards? And are there baffles inside of the pipe? I found a tig welder on Craigs list that is cheap, but then it is cheap if you know what I mean. The debat rages in my head, I sure wish there was somewhere I could rent this kind of stuff here.

metalstudman1 · #90 10-23-2011, 06:02 PM

There shouldn't be anything in the pipe itself- but the muffler/silencer will have some type of baffle or snake like pipe inside. Do you know anyone with a gas rig that you can braze with? It's pretty hard to screw up brazing!!!!(that's how they fix expansion chamber damage) and it won't burn through!!It looks like if flip the manifold & you cut the straight portion @ the bend and put it back together you'd get your clearance behind the seat and almost square the pipe up with the frame.- then cut the seam on the muffler end and rotate or re-miter it straight it would go back pretty easily.The muffler don't care which way it points for the exhaust to get out. Sorry but it's hard to know by just pic's!!!!

300cpilot · #91 10-24-2011, 10:38 AM

I wish I could send you an airline ticket to come out for a couple of days, cause this thing would be done a lot faster. A friend is going to loan me his oxy/Acct setup and I am going to cut it and then braze it together.

Also I drove all over and have been unable to find a pipe I can use for an intake. It is an extreme 90 degree elbo and no one can do it. So more hurry up and wait.

metalstudman1 · #92 10-24-2011, 12:11 PM

I'd love to be working on your buggy

Why isn't the mega dollar copper elbow not going to work?It fit in the rubber boot- with some slits (like an exhaust pipe) where the carb connects and a rubber strip around the carb flange- slide the pipe over & hose clamp.

300cpilot · #93 10-24-2011, 10:34 PM

You got that right, that elbo was 30.00! To bad I cut it up. It will crack with vibrations that will happen, plus in the picture you can see that the carb is in the end where the fitting is flared out. This end proved to be impossible to find a host that would go over it and cinch down far enough to seal on the card flange. Your idea did not occure to me.

I went back to the machine shop and they are going to make me one, it just may take a month of sundays to get it.I also need a brace put on it so it will help support the carb.

metalstudman1 · #94 10-24-2011, 11:19 PM

I strongly disagree about the copper cracking- It would survive very well under vibration. The bell fitting is the part I was talking about to put slits in-4 slits from the end to just before the bell tapers, take a strip of rubber slightly wider than the bell (an intertube works well), rap that around the outside of the carb inlet slide the bell end over the rubber (you could expand it alittle if needed) and close the gap on the slits with a hose clamp.To provide a support for the carb and air cleaner to could make a tab bracket the fits under the hose clamp and goes up to one of the many intake bolts. Or you can wait a month of Sundays!!!!!!!

300cpilot · #95 11-20-2011, 12:30 AM

I dropped by the machine shop on Friday and found that they forgot all about me... So piss on that.

So I moved the engine mount to let the carb fit the way it was meant to. So then I was on a roll so I cut the exhaust and welded it back together. It took over 4 hours to weld it back together with a stick welder and it is not my best work. Fortunately a grinder makes it look ok. Just have one more exhaust mount to build , throttle cable, hook up the electronic's, and add fuel so we can fire it up for the first time!

Also I purchased a mint, less than 900 miles on a 1986 Phazer with electric start & a 480cc engine. Fired up with little effort, and extremely clean. This will be for the next project... Totally from scratch single seater. Any idea's for plans out there?

metalstudman1 · #96 11-20-2011, 06:05 PM

You're at the "all I can think about" stage of a build!!! So close but still some BS /doesn't look like you've done anything work to do. Yamaha made some good power back then.

300cpilot · #97 11-20-2011, 07:05 PM

Yes the BS stage! Never ending.

Today I did the following:
Finished the exhaust mounts.
Cleaned up the wiring and tied it into the Dazon wiring. Only 2 wires between engine and chassie.
Mounted fuel pump, replaced all the fuel & Vaccume lines from car to tank.
Mounted voltage regulator, CDI unit.
Turned engine over and verified that it had spark and the kill switch was wired correctly. Not running yet, though.
Repaired the cooling air ducting around the cylinders.
Installed a new belt.
Hooked up the throttle cable, made sure it opened up all the way. Made the mount for it.

Things to do now:
Need larger fuel shutoff valve for tank.
Frame needs modified so that the pull start can be put back on it.
Fix Flat tire.
Charge battery, cause the stator will not charge a dead battery.
Get a Unifilter to fit it.
Figure out the mix ratio for the gas/oil.
Find that exhaust wrap so it does not burn my seats.
... Tomorrow will be a new list of course!

Also I think I am going to leave the Phazer alone until I need the engine, it runs so I am going to ride it a little.

What do you think of these plans http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=330637614208

metalstudman1 · #98 11-20-2011, 07:41 PM

40:1 is always safe- 50:1 is usual now with our better lubricants.IMO- DON'T WRAP YOUR EXPANSION CHAMBER. Try and find something you can put between the seat and pipe, you don't need anything fancy, you can put a thin sheet of aluminum or steel right in front of the pipe with very close clearance (but not attatched to the pipe) to keep the seats from getting too hot. Wrap causes the pipe to run hotter-also expansion chambers expand and contract.
I like the buggy- looks expensive to build!!!

300cpilot · #99 11-20-2011, 10:09 PM

It seams to get more expensive every day. Grinder died yesterday, so add another $50. I am afraid to think how much has been spent. This is where you have a great advantage. You already have everything you need to build most of your projects.

The guy selling the plans got back to me and said an average cost without the engine is around $8000.00. So that is a big no way.

I guess I could put an aluminum shield on the seat it's self, but I was hoping to hide my welding...

300cpilot · #**100** 11-20-2011, 10:56 PM

Sorry it is dark and my camera does not have a flash. It reminded me that I have to fix the choke as well. Dont look to close at this welds, and remember that it is rusty 16 gauge metal.