just purchased helix 150cc for $300

[zman007007]

I am supposed to pick up tomm. He was asking $500 for it, and I asked what was the least he would take for it. He said $350, I told him I was thinking more of $300 since I didnt know what was wrong with it, and he said we will flip for it. If he wins its $325, if I win its $300. Well I flipped and he called it wrong, so thus the $300 price tag. LOL It does need a a battery, and the seat bottom. Before it quit running he put on a new muffler, exhaust pipe and carb. It has been sitting a while now. I will found out how long tomm. He listed it as a carter motor, but it has a fan cover on it that says Manco. Is that just an aftermarket fan cover? He said it quit running while riding it. He said its not firing. What should I check 1st? I have included some pics. I would appreciate any help.

[bear]

Well of course you'll need the battery first. then you can start with the wiring, stator, cdi, coil, spark plug, etc. Looks like it hasn't had any attention paid to it in awhile, so don't be surprised if it takes you a little bit to get it up and running right, but hang in there on it!

[zman007007]

it wont take long as long as I can find a wiring diagram for it. anyone have one?

[jmansracerocket]

that's an awesome buy from what I can see, I also see a little monkey on the roof of the one pic lol

[zman007007]

LOLLLLLLL yea that was my 1st thought when he sent me the pics

[zman007007]

monkey not included thanks goodness.

[zman007007]

it has reverse and he says it works I am so proud lol.

[zman007007]

what is so really cool, is he lives about 15 minutes from me. I found this on CL

[zman007007]

He says he has some books to go with it, ie: parts books he will give me tomm.

[jmansracerocket]

lol u seem a little excited

[zman007007]

dang and I was trying to act so cool lol

[zman007007]

I am 58 years old but I will be like a little kid on Christmas eve trying to sleep tonight.

[zman007007]

But on the bright side, clocks set ahead a hour tonight so I can get there an hour earlier. lol

[jmansracerocket]

good find, good luck, let us know how u make out with it tomorrow

[zman007007]

thanks rocket I appreciate it.. I will

[Masteryota]

I almost bought one that wasn't running and had something broken in the steering. Good looking buggy all around, and from what I found they were sold at tractor supply for a time. I had actually forgotten about them till I saw your pics.

[zman007007]

thanks for the advice Bear I will try to find a wiring diagram for it.

[zman007007]

hey masteryota, I will fill in more details after I get it tomm.

[zman007007]

I was just wondering if and when I get it running will it keep up with my crossfire or blow the doors off it. lol

[Masteryota]

We will have to find out, now won't we, lol. Now you got me looking for buggies on the List, found a spiderbox and a crossfire for fair prices, Too bad I'm broke and still working on mine.

[zman007007]

I heard that bro, someone on here told me to be patient and I would find one, but I didnt know it would be so close to home.

[zman007007]

The only way I was able to buy this one was because years ago I got into Harley Davidson 3 wheel golf carts and bought a lot of new parts for them. I sold some of the new parts I had left, such as crankshaft kits, and cylinder kits. I still have some parts left for them. these are the old 3 wheel carts with the 2 stroke engines. I have 3 of the carts still left. 2 have no engines on them but I have the engines that came off them. I have other new parts also for them. The one I have with the engine on it I need to retime it and a few other things to do, but I have lost interest in them.

[zman007007]

This would be a good father -son [daughter] project for someone. I have the complete service manual and parts breakdown for them and would be included. Anyone interested pm me. zman

[zman007007]

master sorry I GAVE YOU THE BUG MAN LOL

[Masteryota]

It's cool man, I had the 'itch' for a while now, pretty much since I drove mine through the neighborhood, lol.

One of the guys in the service dept. has a bunch of the HD mini bikes, I think he said 6 now, and 3 run. I personally haven't seen one, but it did peak my interest a bit.

I do want to build a bigger one a little later with a bigger engine, maybe a FWD with transaxle, I know a few guys with honda engines collecting dust in their garages, hmmm,now you got me thinkin..... automatic or manual??

[zman007007]

I can see the smoke coming out of your ears now. lol

[zman007007]

go0od nite folks catch u tomm.

[zman007007]

does anyone have the stock air filter box that came with this type of cart they dont need and want to sell cheap? I picked it up today, but not running yet, but I will need this part. thanks zman

[BuggyMaster]

The manuals for these machines are in the tech section. What you should note is that American Sportworks machines use a DC based CDI box where most other machines is AC based. You got a good deal on these.

The parts for them are all cheap as well. Tom (click banner at top of this page) is an American Sportworks dealer and discounts the parts. Enjoy! These are one of our favorite machines.

[zman007007]

I forgot about Tom being a dealer I have already ordered the coil and dc cdi ,. I will definately ask him about the air filter housing though. right now lol zman

[zman007007]

I sent a message to Tom thanks

[zman007007]

does the flywheel on these engines have a keyway like the lawnmower type engines do?

[xlint89]

GY6, yes it does.

Nice find BTW

[zman007007]

the reason I asked this was because the other day when I was trying to see if it was firing or not, I didnt see the fan turning. I pulled the spark plug out and stuck a screwdriver in the cylinder and it was working as it should be. Sooooooo I figured it may have stripped a keyway if it had one. I couldnt see one in the parts breakdown on it.

[zman007007]

and thanks xlint

[bear]

Hey while ur talking to Tom might as weel see about getting the performance intake to replace the stock one thats missing!? just a thought

[bear]

P.s. they actually still sale these @ the Quality farm and fleets around here as of the last time I was there last September!

[xlint89]

It sounds like you need to remove the fan cover and have a look at it then. Maybe the fan screws are missing?

[zman007007]

thats what I am about to do xlint.

[zman007007]

Wellllllllll removed the fan cover and all is well there. I just had trouble seeing with the cover on and reaching to turn the key. I went ahead and put the new cdi box on and now it is firing, so I put the new coil on too. So I guess I will be tearing into the carb. next. It will not even hit when I spray carb. cleaner into the carb.

[bear]

One step at a time Zman, just stay at it & you'll be cruisin' before ya know it!!!

[zman007007]

well bear at least if I get the cruise fever I can jump on the crossfire and take her for a spin, till the fever comes down. lol

[bear]

Waite, what, you mean the fever breaks sometimes!?" never heard of such! lol

[zman007007]

yea it breaks when the missus says its time to come in. lol

[SLESTAK75]

Wow. I guess you started this thread while I was out of town for a funeral. That's a heck of a find there. At the point where I go to buy another one of these I will definitely patiently check the list. You'll have it moving around the hood in no time. Awesome find zman.

[zman007007]

I haven"t got it running yet, I think I will have to pull the carb. off and check it I got it firing now, but even after spraying carb. cleaner straight into the carb, its still not hitting. The guy I got it from told me it quit running while they were driving it. He says it has been sitting about 2 months now. it has a new carb. starter and muffler on it. They did not even remove the blue plastic off the chrome muffler cover on it. So they didnt have it running long or maybe not at all since then.

[zman007007]

welcome back slestak and sorry for your loss .

[zman007007]

I was going to check the compression a moment ago but my adapters will not fit the small spark plug hole. does anyone know what MM size it is? I will have to buy an adapter I guess.

[xlint89]

Mine only reads M10 on the adapter

[bear]

Check the auto parts store for loaner and take the plug in with you!

[zman007007]

I called Napa today and told them it has autolite pluig #4194 in it and they told me it was a 10mm but didnt have a adapter for it so I went to Harbor Freight which is only about 5 miles from where I work and bought a new one with the 10mm,12mm,14mm, and the 18mm adapters and rest of the setup inc. for only $19.99 on sale from $29.99. Anyone that doesnt have one should check it out. Item # is 66216

[bear]

Well thats a good deal, especially to know you always have it on hand!

[zman007007]

oh yeah that price would be worth having one on hand even if you only use it once a year.

[zman007007]

Well just checked the compression and only have about 10 psi. Not so good. pulled the old seat off and checked the valves. just spun it over and both valves were working, I will still have to check the gap on them though. I will assume if the valves check out it will probably be a broke ring, since I was told it quit running while they were driving it.

[zman007007]

well adjusted the valves and still nothing. only 10 to 15 psi even after putting some oil in the cylinder. so I guess its time to replace top end. I"m just going back stock though. nothing fancy since the kids and grandkids will be riding it also.

[Masteryota]

Thats pretty low even for a broken ring, all the engines I see with 0-20psi have completely blown head gaskets or a hole in the piston or cylinder, both from overheating. At least the parts are cheap enough as long as the cylinder is ok.

Heck, even my 2smoke rm80 had 60psi with a burnt piston and ring and some of the piston still attached to the cylinder wall, and that is a single ring engine.

Edit: Also, with the oil in the cylinder, with a broken ring, you should have seen a bigger jump in compression, fingers crossed for a cracked piston, and no shrapnel in the crankcase.

[zman007007]

I heard all that , I am going to replace the jug and all of it anyway. hopefully crankcase wise I hope it is ok. and yes that is why I put oil in the cylinder to see if it would increase it. it will probably be next week end before I have time to tear it down. he said it quit running while driving it.

[Masteryota]

Before you condemn the jug, I would tear it down first, May need a head or gasket. Do you have access to a bore scope by chance, might help rule out piston damage prior to disassembly.

[xlint89]

Or a bent valve won't react to oil in the cyl either.

[SLESTAK75]

Ditto on the bent valve or valves. Definitely want to check before ordering parts unless you just want to spend money.

[Masteryota]

Bent valve should have been noticed when checking/adjusting the the valves, Burnt seat or face maybe, but then you need to dig deeper and find the root cause so it won't happen again.

[zman007007]

I spun it over before adjusting the valves and they seemed to be working fine as far as up and down goes.

[zman007007]

I dont have access to a bore scope. We have a camera at work with the telescopic head on it but its too big to go in the plug hole.

[zman007007]

how does the chain on the cam come off? does it have a master link on it also? or do I just unbolt the cam and lean it out of it?

[SLESTAK75]

Unbolt the cam. And pull the chain tight and tape in place to keep timing right. Unless you are replacing the chain.

[zman007007]

tape it in place to what? how do you keep it in place when you pull the head.

[SLESTAK75]

You just pull the chain tight, squeeze it together, and wrap tape or a tie wrap around the chain to keep it pinched together. Then you carefully drape it down over the edge of the head or the cylinder if you remove the head. If you use a tie wrap then know that it will snag a bit as you remove and replace the head. Thats why i say use tape.

[SLESTAK75]

Before replacing the head please make sure you take note of where the mark on your flywheel is when the piston is at top dead center. Mine was not where i thought it was. That way you know for a fact that the cam timing is set right. Dont forget to put the tensioner on and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont forget to check and check again to make sure all is right before cranking that starter.

[zman007007]

I will have to make sure everything is back to tdc before starting. thanks for reminding me of that.

[zman007007]

whats first? do i remove the rocker arm nuts and then tilt the cam to the side to remove the chain? also on the chain tensioner when and how should I remove it? thanks zman

[SLESTAK75]

Tensioner first then rocker nuts and tilt the cam.

[zman007007]

I think I saw somewhere it says the bolt that holds the tensioner is on the side of the engine, right? So remove it and just pull the tensioner out, right? remove exhaust bolts and then rocker arm nuts, right? I got my cylinder kit in the mail today, so hopefully I can get started on this bad boy this week end. I hope it fits this engine, if not I know it will fit my Howhit and I will save it for when it needs it. zman

[jmansracerocket]

Zman I use a wire coat hanger to hold the chain up from dropping when changing heads it all personal prefrence

[bear]

You're on the right track to start Zman!

[zman007007]

tape and clothes hanger combo should work great thanks guys

[zman007007]

I found the problem for the low compression today when I tore her down. look at the center of the piston in the pics. I dont think that hole is supposed to be there, also the rings and piston shows like the oil has never been changed. It was low in oil when I brought it home. about 10 ounces. could have been a combo of both of these. who knows? this ride looked like it had been rode hard and not taken care of, but like a old stray dog, I took it in at a price. LOL I will and suggest next time if I plan on buying another cart, I will carry my compression gauges with me and check it before buying. I will tell them the acceptable compression would be between 130 to 150 psi, if told it is running good. If it has a problem at least you will know its not a compression issue. If they will not let you check it, I would pass on it. Check one of the earlier post I put on this thread for a cheap compression tester. For $20 on sale price, its all you will need. It may even save you lots of money on the buying price. You can buy all the add ons in the world and it will not help you without good compression. zman

[SLESTAK75]

New bore kits aren't too awful expensive so if you carry your compression tester with you and notice low compression that is when you look at the buyer and say " I'm gonna have to put a new bore kit on this and that ain't gonna be cheap. Im afraid i can only give you x amount of dollars for this buggy. Then walk away knowing you got a killer deal.

[zman007007]

yea I heard that, I just bought and received the other day a stock kit for $80.00. It includes the jug, piston with rings, wrist pin and clips, head with valves already installed, exhaust studs, intake studs, and gasket set. I dont want anything fast or fancy right now, just something to get this bad boy running.

[zman007007]

also tell the seller if you dont wan to sell it to me , you should tell the next person what they will have to do to get it running.

[zman007007]

just wonder how many would be that honest?

[SLESTAK75]

As you said earlier hopefully the crank is good. At least you planned on replacing the jug anyways. Check the head over really well for damage. If you need another one I have one with less than 50 miles on i will let go cheap. Say...$40 plus shipping. Its a 58.5mm racing head. Supposed to give you a 160cc combustion chamber.

[zman007007]

thanks buddy but read backwards this kit comes with a brand new head with valves already installed

[zman007007]

the head looked fine I have no idea where the hole in the piston came from

[SLESTAK75]

Great. Sounds like you got all you need. Make sure to take your time and check check check. Heat put the hole in the piston. You said it had no airbox on it. The old owner could have run it like this. If he did it would have been very lean and run very hot and burned a hole in the piston. Still your gain at only $300.

[SLESTAK75]

What do you plan to do for air filter?? Anything besides stock will need a rejet of the carb so that you don't burn a hole in your new piston.

[zman007007]

I have one that I bought for the howhit motor on my crossfire I may use. it came with an adapter that will work

[Masteryota]

Yes sir, thats what I was afraid of. Looks like the piston got too hot and melted through, possibly from lack of lubrication and heat build from excessive friction. At least it wasn't fractured and allowed debris into the crankcase. Were there any signs of metal in the oil?

Another good way to test an engine is with a squirt of stating fluid or ether, spark and squeeze are needed for it to fire off, testing the ignition system as well.

[bear]

That was an awesome deal on the stock kit, where did you get it at?

[zman007007]

it wasnt firing when I got it, so I ordered a new performance cdi and coil for it. that got it firing. then I tried carb cleaner and had no response to crank it. I mentioned this in a earlier post. after finding compression of only 10 to 15 psi I started checking other items and found this. now its time to rebuild this bad boy and go for it. yeeeeeeeeeeee haaaaaaaaaa LOL zman I will drain the oil tomm and like I said it was about 10 ounces low when I got it.

[zman007007]

I do not believe in using starting fluid on air cooled engines , that is why I use carb. cleaner. not as flammable but doesnt hurt the cyclinder lubrication neither.

[zman007007]

bear pm me

[zman007007]

just thought of something else, when I picked it up, it had a brand new muffler on it. he said he had lost the old one. the blue tint plastic they put on the chrome on the muffler wasnt even melted at all, so obviously he had ran it without a muffler also.

[SLESTAK75]

mayhap so mr Zman. You say it looked like the oil had never been changed. So good possibility the oil was just burned up. This is what I would do , and whether or not you do this you need to weigh carefully. There is most likely burned , caked , crusty oil deposits around most any friction point in the engine. When you do your break in on the new parts do it with a thinner oil, say 5w-30. Do an easy on the engine ( 1/4 to 1/2 pedal ) break in period for 2 tanks of gas and then drain 1/2 of the oil and top off the oil you just drained with Kerosene or charcoal lighter fluid. Start the engine and let it idle (DO NOT REV THE ENGINE) for 5 minutes. Drain all of the oil and refill with the oil of your choice. This can be done to old dirty engines to break loose old oil and carbon deposits. I have done this to many old engines with no ill effects. Again this is something you have to weigh out as to whether you are comfortable with it or not. Given that the bottom of the engine took as much abuse the top did it may be a good idea to run a synthetic oil. I'm quite certain that others will chime in on this one.

[Masteryota]

Um, well I can't say I totally agree with the kerosene, but I do agree you should be careful about any type of deposits or oil sludge.

@slestak. I was with toyota at the end of their infamous oil gel issues in the late 2000's, and knowing we were putting short blocks or rebuilding the bottom end in these vehicles, we tried any number of things to break loose the gel/sludge in the head to help with the cleaning process, and the only thing that helped was ATF. Conventional motor oil is by nature high in detergents, and ATF has similar agents added to it to keep sediment from building up, but these cleaning effects take time to really clean it out, and you don't want to run an ATF/oil mix for long periods, as the ATF breaks down much faster than the oil.

@zman, I would use a high quality oil, whether synthetic or not, and change it twice as often for the first few months. I might stay away from synthetic at first, both for the price and frequency of the oil changes, and if nothing else makes noise or comes apart, then I might switch.

Also, running the engine without a muffler will cause it to run lean, and lean is hot, inspect the valves closely, you might see some burning on the seats and face as well, that would confirm your diagnosis.

[SLESTAK75]

Very good advice Yota to stay away from synthetic for a while as it definitely costs more than standard. On the Kerosene: all it really does is thin the oil and the deposits and help break them loose. If you look in the auto parts store they sell a product that you add to the oil to clean the engine. It is 60% Kerosene. But this is why I say it is what "I" would do, and each must definitely weigh out his decision. But another good alternative is Seafoam. Same procedure just use Seafoam instead of Kero.

[zman007007]

I remember the old kerosene trick, my brother used to do it on his cars. I may try the seafoam, or the kerosene. I have time to think about, it will be next week before I get it back together. thanks guys

[zman007007]

I havent drained the old oil yet. I should be able to tell a lot from how it looks, even tho I did add 10 ounces of new to it, before trying to crank it.

[zman007007]

I picked up some 5w-30 oil today and some Marvel mystery oil I will put in the engine after I drain the old oil out. I hope to get this back together tomm. I have never tried the mystery oil before, but I have always heard good things about it. it says to mix it at about a 20% ratio to your oil, which means about 6 ounces to my 30 ounce capacity.

[zman007007]

I seriously considered the kerosene mix but after not knowing what ratio I should use as a mix, I figured this would be the safest way on a new built motor.

[SLESTAK75]

That should do good. With Kero you do about 20-25%.